3034 réponses à ce sujet

[XEternalXDreamsX]

I thought my comment was pretty straightforward, but in case I was unclear, no I don't like relying on equipment to become stronger... at least with auto leveling, the actual PC would still become more powerful over time, even if we weren't in control of how they developed.

Hear me out, Icy. I am info-lite on this subject. From what you have seen on vids/screenshots, does the player get any stats auto-dispersed on Level up or is it completely equipment dependant? Just wondering if you may know or have an idea.

[Icy Magebane]

Hear me out, Icy. I am info-lite on this subject. From what you have seen on vids/screenshots, does the player get any stats auto-dispersed on Level up or is it completely equipment dependant? Just wondering if you may know or have an idea.

Actually, I was going by arazhal's earlier post where they did a tally of bonuses from equipment and passives and deduced that we actually don't gain any attributes on level.  Before that, I was working under the assumption that we would get points, but that we simply would have no control over where they were distributed... in fact, I could have sworn there was some kind of official statement to that effect, but I guess not...

 

Anyway... it seems that attribute increases will mostly come from equipment.  We can get +3 to a pre-determined stat from most of the passives (not all, most), but that seems like it won't add up to anything significant.  A single piece of equipment can potentially match all of our passive attribute bonuses combined...

 

I suppose there is the advantage of making the character's build flexible and easily changed depending on what the player wants at the moment, but that's not something I'm used to... I guess can see how others might appreciate it though.  Assuming this is how it works, of course...

[seraphymon]

I made a sword 'n board templar/reaver as my first character. Stats were spread around strength, constitution and stamina with a smidge of dex.

 

It didn't work very well. Killing speed was mind-numbingly slow and the only reason I even managed to beat the game at all was because of the rest of the party. When awakenings gave me that respec potion, I gulped it down without second thought.

Funny, even though that build wasnt for my PC, that was the exact build I had for Alistair. And at the beginning it is slow, and he isnt a killing machine  even at the end, but always did good damage and was a viable build, why? for what that build was for tanking, and not dps

 

I thought my comment was pretty straightforward, but in case I was unclear, no I don't like relying on equipment to become stronger... at least with auto leveling, the actual PC would still become more powerful over time, even if we weren't in control of how they developed.

I agree. This is actually worse, no real sense of growth if everything comes from gear and passives,

[XEternalXDreamsX]

I am kind of speechless.. I was thinking that the stats were automatically dispersed at level up just to keep a cookie cutter format for the base of the class with equipment being the real deal for stats. I guess it is not a bad thing; just rather odd that equipment and passives are the only way. So it seems that without equipment at Level 15 is like being Level 1 except for passives (if you take any). Very weird, but I can't wait to try it out. It's not like I won't wear equipment so it might not be that bad except for people that don't progressively update their equipment. Thanks, bro.

[Icy Magebane]

I agree. This is actually worse, no real sense of growth if everything comes from gear and passives,

Yeah, this is going to take some getting used to... do we at least gain health or mana/stamina when we level?  Maybe a set amount based on class?  I sure hope that's not tied to equipment as well...

[XEternalXDreamsX]

Yeah, this is going to take some getting used to... do we at least gain health or mana/stamina when we level? Maybe a set amount based on class? I sure hope that's not tied to equipment as well...

If it is not tied to set class or something, everyone will be equipping Mass CON or Willpower equipment right before level up to get the highest equation of HP or MP.

[Icy Magebane]

If it is not tied to set class or something, everyone will be equipping Mass CON or Willpower equipment right before level up to get the highest equation of HP or MP.

No, I was wondering if we get an additional health bonus when we level that is based on class but independent of CON (or WIL in the case of mana/stamina).  Just a little something extra to show that we leveled up, so that we don't have nearly the exact same stats that we did when we were level 1 if we take our armor off...

[azarhal]

Anyway... it seems that attribute increases will mostly come from equipment.  We can get +3 to a pre-determined stat from most of the passives (not all, most), but that seems like it won't add up to anything significant.  A single piece of equipment can potentially match all of our passive attribute bonuses combined...

 

Going by my calculation, passives will represent about 1/2 of your attribute early on, but will lose ground to gears over time if you focus your gear on stats. There is a lots of derived stats that exist as enchantments from defense (ranged, melee, magic, elemental resistances, etc) to offense (+%damage, +%damagevsguard, +%elementaldamage, etc). I even saw a Stagger on Hit stat that can be increased by armor and/or weapons. Depending how the system works and is balanced, stats focused gear might not be the best way to improve your character.

 

 

I suppose there is the advantage of making the character's build flexible and easily changed depending on what the player wants at the moment, but that's not something I'm used to... I guess can see how others might appreciate it though.  Assuming this is how it works, of course...

 

I find the "Not something I'm used to" somewhat strange. Most RPG systems I know and played are all about growing through gears and/or skills, attribute increase are either nonexistent or very rare. 

[Icy Magebane]

I find the "Not something I'm used to" somewhat strange. Most RPG systems I know and played are all about growing through gears and/or skills, attribute increase are either nonexistent or very rare. 

I guess we don't play the same rpgs then because in nearly every one that I've played, attribute bonuses played a huge role in the party's power levels...

[XEternalXDreamsX]

No, I was wondering if we get an additional health bonus when we level that is based on class but independent of CON (or WIL in the case of mana/stamina). Just a little something extra to show that we leveled up, so that we don't have nearly the exact same stats that we did when we were level 1 if we take our armor off...

Ah, I am sorry. I misunderstood. That would crazy if it would resort back to level one HP and Stam/WP without equipment. It makes want watch the vids in depth to speculate as well.

[Timate]

I think most people are reading into this all wrong or are overthinking it. Some are saying the new system is less or more complex some are saying it gives you less customization. .

1) We will not points distribute into stats.

2) We will still be able to get points for skills tress and specializations

3) Armor is going to be the main focus/weapons

4) You will attain crafting material to distribute into armor ect

5) There will be far more customizations and more rewards for those who use the system

6) You do not need to craft but you will very less likely have a easier time then if you were to craft

7) those who don't want to craft don't need to thus they mentioned everything you do will be affected by choice

Also to clear things up with bg2 you had a random dice roll at the start of the game but other then that the main focus was on gear.

 

Those who think points you get from leveling matters it really does not unless it's ten points into a skill. Either they automatically distribute points into skills or not does not matter gear is what makes you strong not by leveling by leveling you get to wear higher tier level gear in most games.

8) Remember that they are creating a game based on choices don't expect to run through this game without using your brain.

[azarhal]

I guess we don't play the same rpgs then because in nearly every one that I've played, attribute bonuses played a huge role in the party's power levels...

 

Did you play any of BioWare previous games beside the DA series? Because Jade Empire is the only game where you raise primary attributes at every levels beside DAO and DA2.  Any games based on D&D will have either none or sporadic attribute increase depending the version it's based on. The Mass Effect series don't have attributes and SWTOR locks the attributes, they can only be raised through gear.

 

And now that I think about it, most of the MMOs I played are like SWTOR (aka increase via gears) or used auto-level up increase.

 

The exception are the Elder Scroll series, the Gothic series and a few other games.

[Keroko]

Glad to see we reached a common ground here.

 

I guess we still disagree in the meaning and implications of complexity -I said intentionally that B was more complex in gear customization, but not as a system, implying that overall, Origins way of handling this is more complex. What you see as experimentation and improvement I see it as simplification, homogenization and crowd appealing movements. A matter of perception, I guess

 

Let's hope that at the end, the level up system turns out to be fun and interesting.

 

Hear hear.

 

 

Funny, even though that build wasnt for my PC, that was the exact build I had for Alistair. And at the beginning it is slow, and he isnt a killing machine  even at the end, but always did good damage and was a viable build, why? for what that build was for tanking, and not dps

 

Eh, never did get it working on my end. My next spec following the respec potion ended up a champion/guardian tank. Which worked so well it almost played itself. Rush to group, activate Stalwart Defender, shout, watch everyone tumble towards you.

[Icy Magebane]

Did you play any of BioWare previous games beside the DA series? Because Jade Empire is the only game where you raise primary attributes at every levels beside DAO and DA2.  Any games based on D&D will have either none or sporadic attribute increase depending the version it's based on. The Mass Effect series don't have attributes and SWTOR locks the attributes, they can only be raised through gear.

 

And now that I think about it, most of the MMOs I played are like SWTOR (aka increase via gears) or used auto-level up increase.

 

The exception are the Elder Scroll series, the Gothic series and a few other games.

Yeah, I thought you might have been counting some MMORPGs... I'm talking primarily about JRPGs (Final Fantasy series, Suikoden series, Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, SMT: Persona series, Devil Summoner, Disgaea series, Tactics Ogre, etc.) and WRPGs (Dark Souls, Diablo 1, KOTOR 1 and 2, the Elder Scrolls 2-4, Champions of Norrath, Avernum series [I think...] etc.)... actually, the only MMORPG I ever played (Tibia) also relied heavily on attributes... or at least it used to.  While many games that I've played have used auto-leveling, many of them allowed me to choose my own stat distribution... either way, the stats went up with each level and that usually had a noticeable impact on the protagonist or party even without upgrading equipment.

 

I'm not saying that these games were 100% stat based, but stats were in no way superflous... in most cases there was a clear distinction between a level 1 character wearing endgame items and a level 99 (or w/e) character wearing the same gear.  So that's why I find this to be a change of pace, and one that will take some getting used to...

[Timate]

suikdeon you got automatic points via level and most stats were base via armor and runes I played more games then I could ever count most jrpgs are based on armor more so then level yes level helps out a great deal but you cant do much with level alone. Attributes were not as much around until ps1 era even then not to much was in that time period. I know what you are saying however every game has been based on gear unless you are talking about link fps games or god of war ect.

[Yggdrasil]

I'm warming up to the new system, certainly enough to give it the benefit of the doubt.  It's interesting to plan out my mage character based on which passives increase CON vs. which increase MAG or WILL since I'm planning more of a front-line mage.  The item and crafting system lets you specify the attributes you want to add.  Plus, you don't have a situation where a stat is raised to a godlike level.

 

Edit: It sounds like the devs are trying to shake things up a bit--which I know can be terribly hit or miss--but I think I prefer that to a predictable formula that gets stale quickly.

[Icy Magebane]

suikdeon you got automatic points via level and most stats were base via armor and runes I played more games then I could ever count most jrpgs are based on armor more so then level yes level helps out a great deal but you cant do much with level alone. Attributes were not as much around until ps1 era even then not to much was in that time period. I know what you are saying however every game has been based on gear unless you are talking about link fps games or god of war ect.

I addressed both auto-leveling and the split between attributes and gear in my post... in the games I mentioned, there was a noticeable increase in the character's abilities long before you found the highest quality weapons and armor... in most of those games you could do just fine with great but not fantastic gear... certainly a lot better than you could in a game like Kingdoms of Amalur, which DA:I seems to have taken a lot of inspiration from... In many areas in that game you'll be dead in a few hits if you take your armor off, not matter how high your level is.  That's not the case in a game like Oblivion, or even Dragon Age: Origins...  In fact, in Nocturne, the PC didn't use armor or weapons at all, his stats and powers alone determined his effectiveness in combat.

[azarhal]

Yeah, I thought you might have been counting some MMORPGs... I'm talking primarily about JRPGs (Final Fantasy series, Suikoden series, Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, SMT: Persona series, Devil Summoner, Disgaea series, Tactics Ogre, etc.) and WRPGs (Dark Souls, Diablo 1, KOTOR 1 and 2, the Elder Scrolls 2-4, Champions of Norrath, Avernum series [I think...] etc.)...

 

JRPGs...that's kind of explain a few things (I don't play them personally).

[Timate]

Yes but elder scrolls games don't take much to beat the thinking process is very light and low its a fun story and the area in the game world is nice but easy content makes quick content. When I think of rpgs I think of having to fight a boss a few times before I beat him last time I had that feeling was bg2 on the final boss phantasy star 4 and a tales game that was on super Nintendo. Normal mode should require thinking and the best armor hard mode should require the best armor with the best material and thinking. Easy mode well should be easy with thinking and great armor but not the best.

[Icy Magebane]

Yes but elder scrolls games don't take much to beat the thinking process is very light and low its a fun story and the area in the game world is nice but easy content makes quick content. When I think of rpgs I think if having to fight a boss a few times before I beat him last time I had that feeling was bg2 on the final boss phantasy star 4 and a tales game that was on super Nintendo. Normal mode should require thinking and the best armor hard mode should require the best armor with the best material and thinking. Easy mode well should be easy with thinking and great armor but not the best.

Um... I don't have trouble with thinking up solutions to problems in rpgs.  What I don't like about this is that I personally prefer controlling a protagonist that is powerful on their own, not one who is dependent on equipment and could therefore be replaced by any other person who wears that same gear.  Do you see what I'm saying now?  I don't have an objection to crafting, and tbh it doesn't really sound all that complicated... I simply would have preferred having equipment supplement my character's power, not account for the majority of it.

 

If this was a game like Mass Effect where we were reliant on technology, I would have no objection, but we're talking about wizards and warriors here... they shouldn't be normal people who are completely dependent on enchanted weapons and armor...

[Timate]

I see your point but this game has never been about making you feel like a god. As much as that does feel awesome when going and just being in beast mode  granted most games do this in some degree however you probably will have to do that via crafting I already have a decent idea of how it will turn out to be. I still remember doing 800 crtis in sui9kdoen2 lol that felt awesome but gut dull fast I love being a power house also at times by the way its fury rune double beat and I forget the one that goes into the wep. I have always loved crafting in video games it's just always been fun to me.

[Icy Magebane]

I see your point but this game has never been about making you feel like a god. As much as that does feel awesome when going and just being in beast mode  granted most games do this in some degree however you probably will have to do that via crafting I already have a decent idea of how it will turn out to be. I still remember doing 800 crtis in sui9kdoen2 lol that felt awesome but gut dull fast I love being a power house also at times by the way its fury rune double beat and I forget the one that goes into the wep. I have always loved crafting in video games it's just always been fun to me.

Well, don't get me wrong, I am looking forward to crafting in DA:I, it's just that this news about attributes took me by surprise.  Whenever it seems like I'm finally comfortable with the new combat mechanics, they reveal something else that I never would have expected... lol... even if it's unconventional (by my own standards, at least), I'm sure it will be fun.  I've liked what I've been seeing in the demos so far, so this will probably be a minor annoyance at most... so long as I don't take their equipment off, it won't matter how weak my PC is anyway...

[Timate]

If I can remove all my armor I will just to fight the darkspawn naked in all my glory at max level of course level

[Palidane]

I'm not sure I'm sold on this. My initial thought was that if we can't assign our attributes and they don't increase over time, why even bother having them? I know Bioware is really proud of their crafting system, and I'm sure they have every reason to be, but I don't like that it is become such a massive part of the game. I don't think I ever crafted a single thing in any of the Dragon Age games, and I'm not keen on the idea of it becoming mandatory.

 

Now, all of this is speculation of course, and we shouldn't be judging too hard before the game is released. Still, I'm wary.

[seraphymon]

Eh, never did get it working on my end. My next spec following the respec potion ended up a champion/guardian tank. Which worked so well it almost played itself. Rush to group, activate Stalwart Defender, shout, watch everyone tumble towards you.

I think it worked out pretty well for that role on my end. But, i do agree that come awakening, much like the archer tree, I too respeced Ohgren to become my tank, taking up the guardian specilization and was much better at handling that role, and also dishing out some better damage.

 

I'm not sure I'm sold on this. My initial thought was that if we can't assign our attributes and they don't increase over time, why even bother having them? I know Bioware is really proud of their crafting system, and I'm sure they have every reason to be, but I don't like that it is become such a massive part of the game. I don't think I ever crafted a single thing in any of the Dragon Age games, and I'm not keen on the idea of it becoming mandatory.

 

Now, all of this is speculation of course, and we shouldn't be judging too hard before the game is released. Still, I'm wary.

Exactly, why say that crafting is completely optional if 80% or so of your stats are dependent upon gear? If you want any sort of custom numbers, crafting is  mandatory, especially for harder difficulty levels.  To me, this makes subsequent  playthroughs somewhat of a big hassle. Instead of focusing on new decisions for the story, and going through things faster, I will be forced to crafting and forced to hunt things for crafting in order to progress, which to me is kinda like slogging through the fade section of DAO, only worse. It'll be a blast first playthrough, but afterwards, it just becomes like something that will hamper me from playing it more than once unless I lower the difficulty to easy, which is something I don't like doing.