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No attribute points on level up


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#2401
Muspade

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So it's like in DA2 then?  As opposed to, say Skyrim?

That is my general impression from the 7:11 of this video.

It looks very similiar to DA2. There might have been other streams which focused more on it which I don't remember. There's been so many tiny bits of information on these streams.


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#2402
Keroko

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That is different though. At least in that, you were getting stronger, even if it was automatically. Here everything is dependent on gear. Now you have to rely even on drops at the very least, especially with no real healing, your gonna have a very tough time progressing.  At least in DAO allocating stats and mix/maxing them took but a few seconds Or mins, depending if you used a respec. However, with crafting, it could take hours, even days depending how deep it is, with what needing to gather the materials.

 

Well, yes. Leveling also takes hours. So again, nothing really changes in the end.

 

 

If that means I do not have to spend precious Lvl Up choices to use Alchemy, can live with it though I still prefer others pick the flowers, weeds, butterflies, etc.

 

From what we've seen, you don't craft individual potions but rather create upgrades for your potions which the Inquisition then mass-produces for you.



#2403
seraphymon

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Well, yes. Leveling also takes hours. So again, nothing really changes in the end.

leveling is a part of the game, whether you want to or not. Its not a book. It happens without even trying to level up, that really isnt a point.  Leveling hasn't changed, that doesn't mean other things haven't



#2404
Keroko

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leveling is a part of the game, whether you want to or not. Its not a book. It happens without even trying to level up, that really isnt a point.  Leveling hasn't changed, that doesn't mean other things haven't

 

And gathering materials can be as easy as picking up everything you find. Something most people do in RPG's anyway.



#2405
Nosblod

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My issue with this is you can't switch weapons while you're adventuring. You might find an awesome new weapon, its stats are awesome, but it will never compare to what you've already got since it doesn't have all your runes in it.
It happens in DA:O all the time, the weapons you find have higher base damage but never better on-hit effect+bonus damage.
So you either have to go back to base, which breaks the immersion and flow of the game, or wait an hour or two untill you're finished to upgrade your new weapon. The "better" weapon is right there, staring at you in your inventory, but using it would be gimping yourself.

#2406
Dunbartacus

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My issue with this is you can't switch weapons while you're adventuring. You might find an awesome new weapon, its stats are awesome, but it will never compare to what you've already got since it doesn't have all your runes in it.
It happens in DA:O all the time, the weapons you find have higher base damage but never better on-hit effect+bonus damage.
So you either have to go back to base, which breaks the immersion and flow of the game, or wait an hour or two untill you're finished to upgrade your new weapon. The "better" weapon is right there, staring at you in your inventory, but using it would be gimping yourself.

This probably wont happen unless your in the middle of a major story mission / dungeon. During side quests or adventuring you can just run or fast travel back to the nearest camp and get customizing.



#2407
Elhanan

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And gathering materials can be as easy as picking up everything you find. Something most people do in RPG's anyway.


Perhaps, but I did not pick flowers and rubbish in Skyrim, and have quite a bit of time invested in that game. And mods were created to Auto-Harvest, as it was something else many considered as tedious.

@ Myrker - For me, it is calling someone a trained Warrior, but they only know how to utilize 1H & 2H weaponry; cannot switch to a ranged weapon, a dagger for small spaces, etc. Or a Rogue that is unable to use a club or axe, etc. Not being able to switch in combat is bad; not being able to use it all is worse.

#2408
QueenofPixals

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Perhaps, but I did not pick flowers and rubbish in Skyrim, and have quite a bit of time invested in that game. And mods were created to Auto-Harvest, as it was something else many considered as tedious.

@ Myrker - For me, it is calling someone a trained Warrior, but they only know how to utilize 1H & 2H weaponry; cannot switch to a ranged weapon, a dagger for small spaces, etc. Or a Rogue that is unable to use a club or axe, etc. Not being able to switch in combat is bad; not being able to use it all is worse.

 

The problem with your definition is that real trained warriors from our comperable period of development would not have been able to make that switch - an archer was a highly trained individual with a defined combat role, same warriors, same pikemen.  Sure in a pinch you could pick up their weapon and use it you just wouldn't have been any good at it.   To achieve the kind of weapon mastery that the game supposes your pc has - you would have been a specialist.  


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#2409
Ravenmyste

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well there goes trying to match armors, we will be all running around with ugly ass armors, and arguing that  its helps are stats in MP , while we look like rejects from a fashion show..

 

I dare BioWare to make the best stats armors that are all pink,lime green frilly armors... i really want to see who will be brave enough to wear it and who will do there best to get somehting that looks good and has decent stats


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#2410
azarhal

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well there goes trying to match armors, we will be all running around with ugly ass armors, and arguing that  its helps are stats in MP , while we look like rejects from a fashion show..

 

I dare BioWare to make the best stats armors that are all pink,lime green frilly armors... i really want to see who will be brave enough to wear it and who will do there best to get somehting that looks good and has decent stats

 

huh? The crafting system allow you to have the armor look that you want with the stats that you want...as long has you have the crafting material.



#2411
Elhanan

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The problem with your definition is that real trained warriors from our comperable period of development would not have been able to make that switch - an archer was a highly trained individual with a defined combat role, same warriors, same pikemen.  Sure in a pinch you could pick up their weapon and use it you just wouldn't have been any good at it.   To achieve the kind of weapon mastery that the game supposes your pc has - you would have been a specialist.


Not just archers, but crossbows, axes, slings, rocks, bottles, ale mugs, etc; ranged weaponry. And if the Inquisitor has a Murder Knife, I would believe they should have the proficiency to use it.

#2412
Vicarious117

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I personally prefer this, honestly.

The method of assigning attribute points always lead to this awkward "nothing matters" early on in the game and turned into either a "I royally screwed this up" or a "I'm insanely OP now" once you hit the later game.

Not too mention you could just reset everything in DA:2 and DA:A so quite literally nothing mattered on lvl up. Putting it on gear not only makes gear more important but in general keeps people from making stupid builds that essentially break the "formula" lol

I mean in DA:A as a rogue you get the 100% increase to backstab damage dagger then go straight strength with a large main hand weapon and you do ridiculous amounts of damage whether backstabbing or not. In DA:2 you get the base amount of constitution and then stack strength and willpower and as a berserker warrior you just never run out of stamina, with some stamina regen skills ofc. The mass crit chance/damage zerker warrior was also really funny lol And we can't forget the blood mages stacking magic and constitution, just never dying with insane damage and a ridiculous health pool and using every single sustained ability without repercussions was a fun time :P

My point, these builds are dumb and not as good, yet they work very well in certain conditions, cause the attribute system isn't very good. This new "stats from abilities and gear" system will help keep the classes in their proper roles and make the stats more manageable.
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#2413
AlanC9

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Perhaps, but I did not pick flowers and rubbish in Skyrim, and have quite a bit of time invested in that game. And mods were created to Auto-Harvest, as it was something else many considered as tedious.


Aren't there Skyrim mods to give you pretty much free everything?
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#2414
Elhanan

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I personally prefer this, honestly.

The method of assigning attribute points always lead to this awkward "nothing matters" early on in the game and turned into either a "I royally screwed this up" or a "I'm insanely OP now" once you hit the later game.

Not too mention you could just reset everything in DA:2 and DA:A so quite literally nothing mattered on lvl up. Putting it on gear not only makes gear more important but in general keeps people from making stupid builds that essentially break the "formula" lol

I mean in DA:A as a rogue you get the 100% increase to backstab damage dagger then go straight strength with a large main hand weapon and you do ridiculous amounts of damage whether backstabbing or not. In DA:2 you get the base amount of constitution and then stack strength and willpower and as a berserker warrior you just never run out of stamina, with some stamina regen skills ofc. The mass crit chance/damage zerker warrior was also really funny lol And we can't forget the blood mages stacking magic and constitution, just never dying with insane damage and a ridiculous health pool and using every single sustained ability without repercussions was a fun time :P

My point, these builds are dumb and not as good, yet they work very well in certain conditions, cause the attribute system isn't very good. This new "stats from abilities and gear" system will help keep the classes in their proper roles and make the stats more manageable.


However, being able to allow the system choose your stats was in both prior games for those not wishing to make an error. And Respec potions will be in this game, too.

And while you may have considered those designs as bad, others liked the freedom to make them and others; ones not considered foolish, but effective, versatile, and enjoyable.

It saddens me that there are so many on BSN that cannot see past their own criteria to realize that others like to play these games, too. Not only in this thread, but in almost every one that suggests something.
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#2415
Elhanan

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Aren't there Skyrim mods to give you pretty much free everything?


Would not know, as I am Techless. However, I could use the console to gain most Vanilla and DLC items, if desired. And my point is that such Harvesting mods also seemed quite popular, though I skipped them due to my apathy towards Alchemy.

#2416
Muspade

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It saddens me that there are so many on BSN that cannot see past their own criteria to realize that others like to play these games, too. Not only in this thread, but in almost every one that suggests something.

 

Crying-gifs-10112013-01.gif



#2417
Elhanan

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Crying-gifs-10112013-01.gif


I remember this actor from Dark Angel; what is this from?

#2418
Muspade

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I remember this actor from Dark Angel; what is this from?

 

"Supernatural", I believe. 


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#2419
Korvkioscar

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I hated to never be able to open a chest without having a rogue with enough cunning to be honest. It was one of the most irritating things in specifically DA2. Now, on the other hand I only need to bring a rogue and it will never be a problem. I like that a lot. And i don't actually care about attribute points. It's easier just to let the game spend the points I actually need for my specific character. But on the other hand people seem to like the idea of attribute points so.. Just a toggle could be nice.



#2420
AlanC9

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It saddens me that there are so many on BSN that cannot see past their own criteria to realize that others like to play these games, too. Not only in this thread, but in almost every one that suggests something.


Why should anyone here see past his own criteria? Reconciling any conflicts between our individual tastes is Bio's job, not ours.

#2421
xkg

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It's easier just to let the game spend the points I actually need for my specific character. But on the other hand people seem to like the idea of attribute points so.. Just a toggle could be nice.

 

Yes, that would be fair. And that's how it worked in both previous games. The question is, why did they took that choice out.

So far no one knows.



#2422
Elhanan

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I hated to never be able to open a chest without having a rogue with enough cunning to be honest. It was one of the most irritating things in specifically DA2. Now, on the other hand I only need to bring a rogue and it will never be a problem. I like that a lot. And i don't actually care about attribute points. It's easier just to let the game spend the points I actually need for my specific character. But on the other hand people seem to like the idea of attribute points so.. Just a toggle could be nice.


Then you may wish to skip DA-MP, as there are also Warrior and Mage only containers.

For me, another fix would be to allow Cunning to allow any class to by-pass locks, and keep Traps as a Rogue class skill. However, if Cunning has no more use than Crit usage, it would seem that some Attributes will matter even less then before; moving the entire game another step towards other RPG's.

Perhaps we should expect to see 'Dragon Effect' in future titles....

#2423
Elhanan

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Why should anyone here see past his own criteria? Reconciling any conflicts between our individual tastes is Bio's job, not ours.


It may be only me, but while I am a Techless/ Twitchless gamer that loathes mini-games, primarily plays RPG's, and is nudged to skip most m/p environs, it does not seem to do anyone any good for me to insist that games are made with my criteria. I simply try and request for improvements in UI, mechanics, and possibly other areas to allow me a better chance to enjoy them.

In this case, this is me trying to hold on to past freedom of choices that were allowed in the previous titles. I am not campaigning for others to be forced to manually allocate Attributes; simply wishing for the option I liked to remain.

#2424
Icy Magebane

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I hated to never be able to open a chest without having a rogue with enough cunning to be honest. It was one of the most irritating things in specifically DA2. Now, on the other hand I only need to bring a rogue and it will never be a problem. I like that a lot. And i don't actually care about attribute points. It's easier just to let the game spend the points I actually need for my specific character. But on the other hand people seem to like the idea of attribute points so.. Just a toggle could be nice.

Just in case you don't already know about this, your rogues won't be able to open any "Masterwork" chests without taking an Inquisition Secrets perk first.  Last time I checked, that one required 4 points in Secrets before you can access it.  It seems that the basic chests can be opened by any rogue, but to get to the good stuff you are going to need to invest in Secrets.  Either way, it is nice that individual rogues won't have to pass a Cunning threshold or spend talent points in Lockpicking at the cost of combat abilities this time...



#2425
Dunbartacus

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I haven't seen any attitude points when leveling up? Is that done automatically now?

Mike Laidlaw ‏@Mike_Laidlaw
they grow some automatically, some are added by talents, more come from gear.

 

A more recent tweet. It sounds like gear is where the majority of our attribute increases will be. While i would like those that increase automatically to be within player control, however Bioware's method ensures each character will always have a solid base that can then be taken in many different directions through crafting / gear selection.