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[Elfyoth]

Okay this title is about how you imagine Lavellan clan will be in DA:I its also about how you wish it'll be in DA:I for example I wil Lavellan clan will be nothing like Sabre clan in DA2 and that it will be a friendlly clan with friendlly pepole and I imagine it'll be more like Sabre clan in DA:O what you Imagine and wish it to be?

[raging_monkey]

I imagine them to be like this

They were one of progressive clans. While they often moved around they were quite accepting of humans occassionally trading with merchants and taking in elf-bloods and on a rare occassion a human child. But the keeper harahel often was fusterated by her little brother and apprentice Inan's (inquisitor) views as a youth but succeded in having him be like the clan. Overall they are like the circle but nomadic and accepting

[animedreamer]

im not so sure we'll even see them.. but i imagine they are friendly, if not tolerable of other races if not humans.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'd like to see them but I don't think we will.

[Elfyoth]

If we wont see them its cool then you can imagine them how you wanna to...

 

Ps SPOILER!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the clan's keeper is our Dalish Inquisitor's mom. Cuz her last name is Lavellan too look at the demo

[animedreamer]

This makes me think about Lanaya, it's generally assumed that a Keeper has to be a mage, and as such her first is one as well. Lanaya was not born of the clan, and had spent several years with her captures but never displayed magic despite her trauma? This seems strange, her story says she had to compete with others to prove she was better in all things, wait wasn't Zathrian the least bit concerned that Lanaya might not even be able to carry on the duties of a keeper if she couldn't use the old magic? How many mages did they have in the clan at the time before Lanaya was chosen? As we find out mages within the clan who aren't the first are sent to other clans to become the first of other clans. We've never seen more than 2 mages in one clan before. Even in Inquisition a Elven mage will in fact be the First of the clan.

[Icy Magebane]

This makes me think about Lanaya, it's generally assumed that a Keeper has to be a mage, and as such her first is one as well. Lanaya was not born of the clan, and had spent several years with her captures but never displayed magic despite her trauma? This seems strange, her story says she had to compete with others to prove she was better in all things, wait wasn't Zathrian the least bit concerned that Lanaya might not even be able to carry on the duties of a keeper if she couldn't use the old magic? How many mages did they have in the clan at the time before Lanaya was chosen? As we find out mages within the clan who aren't the first are sent to other clans to become the first of other clans. We've never seen more than 2 mages in one clan before. Even in Inquisition a Elven mage will in fact be the First of the clan.

What are you talking about?  Lanaya was a mage... she was probably kidnapped by bandits when she was very young.  She most likely learned of her powers years after Zathrian's clan took her in.

[Elfyoth]

In Lanaya's clan there are 3 mages... Her Zathrian and the halla keeper I think..

[animedreamer]

What are you talking about?  Lanaya was a mage... she was probably kidnapped by bandits when she was very young.  She most likely learned of her powers years after Zathrian's clan took her in.

i didn't say she wasn't a mage, i said wasn't Zathrian concerned in the least that she might not even be a mage. Keepers from my understand generally don't start teach Dalish mages unless they are intended to become their First, other such mages are sent to other clans. So if Lanaya's story is true she competed with other mages, but how can that be? It would mean there was at least 2 or more competitors to which she competed against. How did she compete against them in magic when she knew none, and why do Dalish Mages risk a young untrained mage for so long in this competition or whatever have you, instead of saying okay we have 2 or more mages in this group besides the Keeper, gotta get rid of one of you so the Keeper and train the other one, before one of you gets possesed. 

 

Also magic usually develops faster in those who are exposed to trauma or emotionally stricken. So Lanaya never got angry at the time of her forced servitude, never got yelled at or beaten, or molested? She says she was very young and its possible for magic to develope at later ages i suppose but every mage we've heard about in terms of their youth says it happen when they were very very young too, Wynne wynne was like 5 when her talents emerged, Jowen was similar. Lanaya couldn't have been much of a servant if she were younger than either of those two. So what we have here is a Elf who had to be at least 7 or 8, who still didn't know they were a mage? 

[animedreamer]

In Lanaya's clan there are 3 mages... Her Zathrian and the halla keeper I think..

The Halla keeper never confirmed that she was a mage but the Wiki says she is, to the point she is empathic to degree to the Halla. Still no magic that we know of allows one to talk to animals. Elora i think her name wasn't able to talk to the Halla until your Warden was able to calm it, so maybe my theory about her having a high lv of Survival isn't right either. So much about the ways of the Elves isn't explained all that well to my knowledge. This is confusing, so Keeper, Halla Keeper, and a First are the only mages allowed to stay in a clan? Merrill's back story makes it sound like only 2 mages the Keeper and their First are allowed to be mages in the clan.

[Icy Magebane]

i didn't say she wasn't a mage, i said wasn't Zathrian concerned in the least that she might not even be a mage. Keepers from my understand generally don't start teach Dalish mages unless they are intended to become their First, other such mages are sent to other clans. So if Lanaya's story is true she competed with other mages, but how can that be? It would mean there was at least 2 or more competitors to which she competed against. How did she compete against them in magic when she knew none, and why do Dalish Mages risk a young untrained mage for so long in this competition or whatever have you, instead of saying okay we have 2 or more mages in this group besides the Keeper, gotta get rid of one of you so the Keeper and train the other one, before one of you gets possesed. 

 

Also magic usually develops faster in those who are exposed to trauma or emotionally stricken. So Lanaya never got angry at the time of her forced servitude, never got yelled at or beaten, or molested? She says she was very young and its possible for magic to develope at later ages i suppose but every mage we've heard about in terms of their youth says it happen when they were very very young too, Wynne wynne was like 5 when her talents emerged, Jowen was similar. Lanaya couldn't have been much of a servant if she were younger than either of those two. So what we have here is a Elf who had to be at least 7 or 8, who still didn't know they were a mage? 

Well, you have to keep in mind that Zathrian was immortal, and he probably never expected Lanaya to actually become the new Keeper... he might have just kept her around because she reminded him of his daughter.  The "competition" was probably farce anyway, since he had no reason to believe that he would die during this current generation's lifespan.  As for why the other two mages were kept around for so long... well, it's only the 3 of them, perhaps some others offscreen.  There is no rule that says that there can only be 2 mages per tribe (Keeper and First).  Mages aren't so rare and clans aren't so numerous that the rules would have to be that strict... at least, that explanation is good enough for me.

 

As for Lanaya's age... basically if it hadn't happened the way it did, she'd have been killed by the bandits for using magic on them and we'd have been talking to a different First instead of her.  So I guess we'll just have to take the story at face value and accept that she didn't develop her powers until later in life, or she was too young when she was kidnapped.  Every mage develops at a different rate, and trauma isn't enough to force magic to manifest several years prematurely...

[Elfyoth]

But she is a mage if you side with the werewolves and attack the dalish clan she cast spells on you...

[Icy Magebane]

But she is a mage if you side with the werewolves and attack the dalish clan she cast spells on you...

Exactly. 

 

The Halla keeper never confirmed that she was a mage but the Wiki says she is, to the point she is empathic to degree to the Halla. Still no magic that we know of allows one to talk to animals. Elora i think her name wasn't able to talk to the Halla until your Warden was able to calm it, so maybe my theory about her having a high lv of Survival isn't right either. So much about the ways of the Elves isn't explained all that well to my knowledge. This is confusing, so Keeper, Halla Keeper, and a First are the only mages allowed to stay in a clan? Merrill's back story makes it sound like only 2 mages the Keeper and their First are allowed to be mages in the clan.

I really do think you're putting too much stock in what you see on the screen.  A Dalish clan in a video game isn't a 100% accurate depiction of the group's population... the same is true for any town, village, or city... even if the game could render all of the people who existed there, about 95% of them would be completely irrelevant to our missions.  My advice is to not take things too literally... there is no way that they could have shown us every Dalish mage in Zathrian's clan, nor was there any reason to do so.

[Elfyoth]

No, most of the Dalish clans at least I think have 2 mages, or 3 including the Halla keeper? Dunno... What yes remember this, nobody never puts a thing in a story for no reason, and this game's story is a serious one unlike games like "wow look at this b1tch lets kill her lalalala" Bioware are writing a STORY  game there must be a reason they have putted this woman forgot her name lol a mage MUST be.

[Icy Magebane]

No, most of the Dalish clans at least I think have 2 mages, or 3 including the Halla keeper? Dunno... What yes remember this, nobody never puts a thing in a story for no reason, and this game's story is a serious one unlike games like "wow look at this b1tch lets kill her lalalala" Bioware are writing a STORY  game there must be a reason they have putted this woman forgot her name lol a mage MUST be.

Are you saying that you think the Dalish enforce a strict limit on how many mages can live in a single clan at one time?

[raging_monkey]

They do "trade" magi between clans (merril)

[BronzTrooper]

Really, I think it's dependent on whether another clan actually needs a mage from another clan.  If all the clans have a First, there's no reason to send whatever extra mages a clan has to another clan.  Sabrae Clan probably didn't have any mages to become First during the last Arlathven and Merrill's clan already had a First, so Merrill went to become Marethari's First.  Who's to say there weren't other mages in Merrill's original clan?

 

Really, I think that the Keeper trains whoever is born with magic in their clan, regardless of whether or not they're the First.  The First likely gets more detailed lessons which include whatever elven lore the clan has while the other(s) are taught what they need to know to defend themselves, whether from demonic possession, wildlife, or people.

 

tbh, I'm not sure where this idea of 'There can only be 2 mages per Dalish clan' came from.  The Dalish are far more accepting of magic than humans, and the Circles generally house dozens of mages.

 

Does the 'there can only be 2 mages per Dalish clan' stem from the Rule of Two in Star Wars?  Because that's what I'm starting to think, tbh.  

[Elfyoth]

Wait wait wait... So, if you kill Zathrian so maybe that halla keeper becomes a first?

[Icy Magebane]

Wait wait wait... So, if you kill Zathrian so maybe that halla keeper becomes a first?

She's kind of old, but maybe... I think one of the children would take her place pretty soon, assuming there is a mage or two among them.

[animedreamer]

I think the general idea comes from a conversation with Merrill, she talks about what happens when a Dalish Keeper is possesed by a demon, and the clan then having to hunt and kill their own Keeper. The fact that she says Keeper, kind of implies that this is one of the few occasions when demonic possession occurs, giving rise to the idea that only the Keeper is experiencing the interactions with the Fade Spirits, since Keepers always have a First, that would imply there are at least 2 mages in a clan, with the recent revelation that the Halla Keepers are also mages or at least Enora was, there may be at least 3.

[LobselVith8]

Well, you have to keep in mind that Zathrian was immortal, and he probably never expected Lanaya to actually become the new Keeper... he might have just kept her around because she reminded him of his daughter.  The "competition" was probably farce anyway, since he had no reason to believe that he would die during this current generation's lifespan.  As for why the other two mages were kept around for so long... well, it's only the 3 of them, perhaps some others offscreen.  There is no rule that says that there can only be 2 mages per tribe (Keeper and First).  Mages aren't so rare and clans aren't so numerous that the rules would have to be that strict... at least, that explanation is good enough for me.

 

There's nothing to suggest the competition Lanaya participated in was a farce, and Lanaya explicitly addresses that she had to work hard to earn a place as the First; she also notes it took effort and time to be accepted once she became the First because she was not initially from the clan. Lanaya notes she competed with several others for the position.

 

I do agree that there's nothing that states the clan limits mages to only two; Aneirin mentions that he was taught ancient elven magic when he recuperated and was welcomed into the clan, so the knowledge isn't necessarily limited to a single person. The threat of the templars is explained as the reason why the clans are nomadic, and why the mages don't use their magic where outsiders can see them perform it (as Merrill explains to the protagonist).

[Icy Magebane]

There's nothing to suggest the competition Lanaya participated in was a farce, and Lanaya explicitly addresses that she had to work hard to earn a place as the First; she also notes it took effort and time to be accepted once she became the First because she was not initially from the clan. Lanaya notes she competed with several others for the position.

 

I do agree that there's nothing that states the clan limits mages to only two; Aneirin mentions that he was taught ancient elven magic when he recuperated and was welcomed into the clan, so the knowledge isn't necessarily limited to a single person. The threat of the templars is explained as the reason why the clans are nomadic, and why the mages don't use their magic where outsiders can see them perform it (as Merrill explains to the protagonist).

I mean that it was a farce in that Zathrian was immortal so he never expected anyone to become the new Keeper... unless the mages of the clan were complete crap at spellcasting, it's hard to believe that a kid would be able to come out of nowhere and legitimately surpass them.  Since there was very little chance that the First would ever fill his shoes, Zathrian might have shown favoritism, or perhaps he explained his choice by noting qualities besides being the most powerful mage.  Maybe Elora tanked her test because she wanted to work with halla instead....  It's hard to say.

[LobselVith8]

I mean that it was a farce in that Zathrian was immortal so he never expected anyone to become the new Keeper... unless the mages of the clan were complete crap at spellcasting, it's hard to believe that a kid would be able to come out of nowhere and legitimately surpass them.  Since there was very little chance that the First would ever fill his shoes, Zathrian might have shown favoritism, or perhaps he explained his choice by noting qualities besides being the most powerful mage.  Maybe she studied harder and Elora tanked her test because she wanted to work with halla instead....  It's hard to say.

 

I don't see why it's hard to believe; if Lanaya was determined and dedicated, fighting harder than anyone else because she was originally a city elf, than I can believe she eventually earned her place as the First of the clan. There's nothing to suggest that Zathrian showed favoritism, and there's no hint that Lanaya lacked any magical aptitude. In fact, the Epilogue slides suggest that she's a very good leader as a figure at court, and in keeping the peace between the Dalish in the Hinterlands and their human neighbors (before the apparent recton with the Dalish Boon being handwaved).

[Icy Magebane]

I don't see why it's hard to believe; if Lanaya was determined and dedicated, fighting harder than anyone else because she was originally a city elf, than I can believe she eventually earned her place as the First of the clan. There's nothing to suggest that Zathrian showed favoritism, and there's no hint that Lanaya lacked any magical aptitude. In fact, the Epilogue slides suggest that she's a very good leader as a figure at court, and in keeping the peace between the Dalish in the Hinterlands and their human neighbors (before the apparent recton with the Dalish Boon being handwaved).

I'm not trying to say anything bad about Lanaya, I'm saying that Zathrian was immortal so it didn't matter who he picked as his First.  As far as he knew, he was going to be the Keeper long after his next First was dead, so their qualifications were largely irrelevant.  When I mentioned favoritism, I was trying to come up with an explanation for Lanaya being chosen over the other mages of the clan, all of whom had been training under Zathrian long before he even found her...  Her story probably reminded him of his daughter, so he might have taken her under his wing because of that.  The fact that she later turned out to be a mage was probably an unexpected bonus that put her on the fast track to becoming his First.  I suppose she might have been a prodigy that completely overshadowed the competition, but there really is no evidence of this outside of her own testimony.  Since that is the case, my theory could be true.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Why would they have been training before her found her? Wasn't she still a girl when she was rescued? There's really no more evidence that she became First despite being unqualified because Zathrian was reminded of his daughter than there is that she won the position based on her merits.