79 réponses à ce sujet

[Antimonde]

I still can not understand why healing spell are removed. It not only kills gameplay but pretty much butchers the lore in this game. OH WELL. B rated game instantly. EA making the moves.

[Doominike]

So wait, does that mean all followers of the same class will have the exact same base stats ? 

[viperidae]

i've been looking at almost all the youtube videos and basically, here's how it works.

 

NO, you will not be choosing to spend 1 point in such, 2 points on so on a level up. YES, you still have control over how your character develops. 

it is true, that a big part of this is supposed to be items. if you choose an amazing defensive passive, you won't have that extra damage boost, or that really cool utility effect (opportunity cost). but these effects will supposedly be more imposing and powerful than in previous games. meaning the choices are in my opinion, more real and do provide quite good customization.

 

another part is that active and passive abilities give stats. so instead of choosing to gain a talent, and a loose allocation of stats, you choose to gain a talent that comes with some stats. most likely, a defensive ability will have defensive stats attached to it, but a passive ability might have something like willpower or crit change.

[TwIsTeD_B]

Thank you viperidae, that was a good explanation.

 

I see this in a lot of other threads about how them cutting healing magic as the main way to get health back kills or ruins the lore. That's not true at all. If you read the actual lore in the game and read the novels outside of the game Healing is used verrrry rarely. In the novels there wasn't a mage there at all times to spam-heal the protagonist every time he got scratched by a bramble bush or a bruised ankle from stumbling through the brush.

 

Yes in the novel The Stolen Throne by David Gaider after some of the major battles they had a mage tend to maric, but it took several minutes or hours to heal him properly. You can't expect gameplay elements to transfer to lore its just not that feasible. With that in mind, having healing spells that rapidly heal party members really goes against the lore.

 

Don't think i'm trying to bash those out there that enjoy playing healers but, what they did by cutting low teir mid-combat healing was make smaller battles between you and generic mobs more meaningful instead of, "ughhhh, I have to kill these 5 more soldiers to get to the boss battle" it's more like " Ok I have these 5 soldiers, I want to use as few potions as possible to defeat them."

 

Of course if you don't like that and just like to blow through the small guys and just enjoy story elements, there's still easy mode to satisfy you.

[DeusGoddess5010]

how can anybody judge anything to the fullest if the game is not even out yet...

[Steelcan]

how can anybody judge anything to the fullest if the game is not even out yet...

Obviously we can't judge to the fullest, but we can say "this seems like a misstep to me"

 

I get that feeling a lot when looking at material released on DA:I

[Doominike]

i've been looking at almost all the youtube videos and basically, here's how it works.

 

NO, you will not be choosing to spend 1 point in such, 2 points on so on a level up. YES, you still have control over how your character develops. 

it is true, that a big part of this is supposed to be items. if you choose an amazing defensive passive, you won't have that extra damage boost, or that really cool utility effect (opportunity cost). but these effects will supposedly be more imposing and powerful than in previous games. meaning the choices are in my opinion, more real and do provide quite good customization.

 

another part is that active and passive abilities give stats. so instead of choosing to gain a talent, and a loose allocation of stats, you choose to gain a talent that comes with some stats. most likely, a defensive ability will have defensive stats attached to it, but a passive ability might have something like willpower or crit change.

That sucks, what if the attribute stats I want come with skills I find garbage ? Or if a cool skill gives points to a useless attribute ?

[DeusGoddess5010]

Obviously we can't judge to the fullest, but we can say "this seems like a misstep to me"

 

I get that feeling a lot when looking at material released on DA:I

even with that its just looks and assumptions

 

I have seen games where the gameplay previews seem like it was not too good,but hand on when it came out, completely changed my mind

[viperidae]

That sucks, what if the attribute stats I want come with skills I find garbage ? Or if a cool skill gives points to a useless attribute ?

 

That's what opportinity cost is - choose one thing, and you give up antoher. it makes for harder decisions (i.e., do i take this great defensive aiblity, or do more damage?) which in turn, makes them more interesting. 

[Vapaa]

Not doing an 180 here, there are still some criticisms I stand buy including the attack animation issues and obscured view due to flashy effects

 

I'm guessing, but I don't think it will be a problem while playing, when you'll play you will have complete control on who does what as well as camera position and active pause. Also, you'll start at lvl 1 (obviously) so you and your party will have only a few abilities, thus more visibility, and more time to familiarize yourself as you slowly gain other abilities. It surely won't be the same as now where we have to guess what is going on with footage we have no control over.

 

The flashiness itself can be a bother but I don't think combat visility will be an issue.

[phantomrachie]

I still can not understand why healing spell are removed. It not only kills gameplay but pretty much butchers the lore in this game. OH WELL. B rated game instantly. EA making the moves.

 

Actually it is the complete opposite it fixes a disconnect between game play & lore. 

 

In the games & books healing magic is supposed to be this big deal that takes time & effort to use, the first time we see Anders in DA2, he is tired after healing a boy but when you have him in your party, he could heal all day & night and not get tired at all.

 

They didn't remove healing magic just made it rarer and harder to use. Healing spells are still there, they are just higher level and require focus. 

 

 

[viperidae]

No I mean, what if a spell gives a stat bonus I want, but the spell sucks and I'll never use it. They just forced me to either keep lesser stats or waste a skill point. That's retarded, it removes customization options. Unless skills that are special moves and attribute boosting skills are separate. 

 

well you'd be looking at it the wrong way. This is why i explained opportinunity cost. Sure, you could do that, and just take a spell you don't want because it has a passive bonus that you want. That's a completely valid decision, but by doing so you give up the opportunity to take a spell that you do actually want. In other words, i'm sure if you want constitution on your mage, you can take plenty of spells that give you CON and that you will still use. at some point however, you will run out, and if you want more CON, you're paying the cost for that.

[Antimonde]

Actually it is the complete opposite it fixes a disconnect between game play & lore. 

 

In the games & books healing magic is supposed to be this big deal that takes time & effort to use, the first time we see Anders in DA2, he is tired after healing a boy but when you have him in your party, he could heal all day & night and not get tired at all.

 

They didn't remove healing magic just made it rarer and harder to use. Healing spells are still there, they are just higher level and require focus. 

 

but flinging fireballs and ice around is not? If healing is hard then why can anyone make a potion that instantly heals you. Like you can't contradict yourself with another machanic in game.

[dekarserverbot]

but flinging fireballs and ice around is not? If healing is hard then why can anyone make a potion that instantly heals you. Like you can't contradict yourself with another machanic in game.

 

You can use your fists to break bones with ease, but you can't learn to arrange bones so easy... destruction is always easier than creation. I guess with magic is the same. And this time i don't see the lore breaking (Anders and Merill anyone?)

Wynne was a Healer and a "worse than a demon" thing posessed her to extend her life in unnatural ways, also you are warned from her when unlocking that spec.

 

And about the potions you don't need magic to create them, they are just herb compounds, anyone can be a medic but not anyone can do what Jesus did... faith healing requires more strengh than it looks

[X Equestris]

I still can not understand why healing spell are removed. It not only kills gameplay but pretty much butchers the lore in this game. OH WELL. B rated game instantly. EA making the moves.

Because according to the lore healing is a much more involved and taxing process than game mechanics healing.

[Doominike]

well you'd be looking at it the wrong way. This is why i explained opportinunity cost. Sure, you could do that, and just take a spell you don't want because it has a passive bonus that you want. That's a completely valid decision, but by doing so you give up the opportunity to take a spell that you do actually want. In other words, i'm sure if you want constitution on your mage, you can take plenty of spells that give you CON and that you will still use. at some point however, you will run out, and if you want more CON, you're paying the cost for that.

Which is a dumb idea because before I could boost any stat I wanted and get any skills I wanted separately, no matter how you call it removing freedoms is not good design

[cardinalally]

Thank you viperidae, that was a good explanation.

 

I see this in a lot of other threads about how them cutting healing magic as the main way to get health back kills or ruins the lore. That's not true at all. If you read the actual lore in the game and read the novels outside of the game Healing is used verrrry rarely. In the novels there wasn't a mage there at all times to spam-heal the protagonist every time he got scratched by a bramble bush or a bruised ankle from stumbling through the brush.

 

Yes in the novel The Stolen Throne by David Gaider after some of the major battles they had a mage tend to maric, but it took several minutes or hours to heal him properly. You can't expect gameplay elements to transfer to lore its just not that feasible. With that in mind, having healing spells that rapidly heal party members really goes against the lore.

 

Don't think i'm trying to bash those out there that enjoy playing healers but, what they did by cutting low teir mid-combat healing was make smaller battles between you and generic mobs more meaningful instead of, "ughhhh, I have to kill these 5 more soldiers to get to the boss battle" it's more like " Ok I have these 5 soldiers, I want to use as few potions as possible to defeat them."

 

Of course if you don't like that and just like to blow through the small guys and just enjoy story elements, there's still easy mode to satisfy you.

Thank you! It has been kind of annoying for people to keep saying that getting rid of lower level healing mid battle is lore breaking.  It is actually the opposite, having it is lore breaking.  

 

Yes it does suck for the people who enjoyed playing that class, but just because they got rid of the lower level healing spells doesn't mean you can't play a similar type of class.  Instead of healing after damage you mitigate and support the others.  And at higher levels you can get the focus healing spell for big boss battles.  

 

If anyone is interested here is the link to the actual codex entry in game

http://dragonage.wik...Magic:_Creation

[Frogtoad51]

Sounds like Laidlaw *puts sunglasses on* layed down the law.

[pdusen]

I had high hopes for this thread after the OP, but this is quickly becoming nitpick-central.

[PhroXenGold]

Which is a dumb idea because before I could boost any stat I wanted and get any skills I wanted separately, no matter how you call it removing freedoms is not good design

 

Freedom is not everything. Reducing choice to make the remaining choices more meaningful is a positive move.

[suliabryon]

Personally, I think it is a bold move by Bioware to try something new, hopefully in a way that will make combat flow more smoothly, not requiring tons of pausing to spam heal spells/potions. I am intrigued by everything I have read. People are always resistant to change, but without it, we would never discover new and better ways of doing things. And honestly, until we can actually play the game, we just have no idea of whether these changes are for the better or worse. I am reserving judgement, and I'd like to think with all of the time this game has been in development, if it was just a completely sucky change, they'd have scrapped it instead of moving forward.

[viperidae]

Freedom is not everything. Reducing choice to make the remaining choices more meaningful is a positive move.

 

Exactly this. Would the choices of skills be better, with more "freedom", if we got 20.000 talent points to spend at the start of the game? no, it wouldn't be interesting at all, because it removes the whole concept of opportunity cost, which is the foundation of RPG character progression. To me, a higher opportunity cost does make the game more interesting. I often found it incredibly arbitrary that a character gains an "experience level" and has developed 1 STR, 1 DEX, 1 CON, and a spell. I find this system to actually be interesting, and more so than the usual stuff.

[prosthetic soul]

Sounds like Laidlaw *puts sunglasses on* layed down the law.

You stole that from me buddy.  Get out. 

[Doominike]

I'm the opposite way, it bothers me when there's not enough points to get all the skills I want. 

[viperidae]

I'm the opposite way, it bothers me when there's not enough points to get all the skills I want. 

 

that's the point. if it didn't then the game would be badly designed, because there is no choice when you are unstoppable and get every skill you want