110 réponses à ce sujet

[Lilaeth]

Well it may be fair but it is dangerous to me (and pretty much to any other person) im not very loyal person but last thing i want around is another not very loyal person.So it is bad for me pretty much look at mages that caused blights.

 

Because she is dangerous by many factors as i pointed she is social darwinist with own goals i don't need another power hungry mage that destroy everything in their way to get what they want. 

TBH, I think that she's so powerful that what you want won't matter.  I'd rather have Flemeth think of me as not worth her attention, than have her thinking that she needs to deal with me because I'm a potential threat/enemy.

[fhs33721]

Nah we totes kicked her ass. Pretty hard too according to how it went in my games

Irrelevant, if she can come back from the dead she probably has unlimited tries. It's a bit like when you are save-scumming.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Social darwinism fair? lolwut

Well it is fair... as it fair as it is about what you can do or not...

 

 

There's zero proof that mages caused Blights, the Black City is the source of the Taint and it was already black when the Magisters got there

Of course except for magister that went to the black city and now is darkspawn pretty much also he confirmed chantry version around that matter

We know they went there in their power hunger and brought blight corry is living proof.

 

 

TBH, I think that she's so powerful that what you want won't matter.  I'd rather have Flemeth think of me as not worth her attention, than have her thinking that she needs to deal with me because I'm a potential threat/enemy.

I rly hope they will let me kill her for good i don't want omniscient villian sue around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ieldra]

From everything she says about herself, the term "deity" may not be far-fetched to describe her. It's quite possible she is, if not an Old God (because those were/are a fixed set), at least of their kind. I do not think there is reason to fear her, however. Not more than any entity of her power, at least. The way she acts it appears to me her default nature is more benevolent than not, and if you don't cross her she'll leave you alone and may even help here or there. 

[raging_monkey]

Social darwinism fair? lolwut

to me its fair you live if you can overcome your foe*survival of the fittest*.(i dont subscribe to what the nazies or any racist idealogy just believe that if everybody is truly equal we stagnat as a people)

Well it may be fair but it is dangerous to me (and pretty much to any other person) im not very loyal person but last thing i want around is another not very loyal person.So it is bad for me pretty much look at mages that caused blights.
 
Because she is dangerous by many factors as i pointed she is social darwinist with own goals i don't need another power hungry mage that destroy everything in their way to get what they want.

and leave the destuction to non-magi sound plan my friend

[Doominike]

@fhs33721-> Her "reload save" would have failed if Hawke just kept the amulet in her pocket though, or in her stash at home, which she lampshades in-game

 

@Kommandor-> The chantry version is that the City was golden, the maker was in it and when the Magisters arrived, he tainted them, cast them back to earth, turned the city black and left. Corypheus says the City was black when they arrived and they got tainted just by being there so they left because the place sucked and their goal failed. That is not what we call a confirmation

[TheKomandorShepard]

and leave the destuction to non-magi sound plan my friend

Not rly i didn't saw single 1 non-mage that wanted destroy world in da universe not mention to have even means to do that at worst non-mage can cause war that will be about territory and control rather than just destroy everyone and rly few non-mages can do that.

 

 

 

@Kommandor-> The chantry version is that the City was golden, the maker was in it and when the Magisters arrived, he tainted them, cast them back to earth, turned the city black and left. Corypheus says the City was black when they arrived and they got tainted just by being there so they left because the place sucked and their goal failed. That is not what we call a confirmation

 

As i said many times city could be even pink it doesn't matter as i said as well corry confirmed that magisters went to black city and brought taint color of the city doesn't matter what matter who went there and brought taint...

[raging_monkey]

Not rly i didn't saw single 1 non-mage that wanted destroy world in da universe not mention to have even means to do that at worst non-mage can cause war that will be about territory and control rather than just destroy everyone and rly few non-mages can do that.
 
 
 

 
As i said many times city could be even pink it doesn't matter as i said as well corry confirmed that magisters went to black city and brought taint color of the city doesn't matter what matter who went there and brought taint...

a non-mage can do just as much damage as a magi just with mundane methods. Theres many ways to destroy the world

And details are what make confirmations/lies. Cory was confused didnt give much detail. So to claim he's right is debatable

[fhs33721]

@fhs33721-> Her "reload save" would have failed if Hawke just kept the amulet in her pocket though, or in her stash at home, which she lampshades in-game

Implyig that the Dalish ritual thing would be Flemeths one and only way to return from the dead? Hardly likely considering that Morrigan outright tells you that she seriously doubts you can kill of Flemeth off for real. Plus (I think) Ariane hints that Flemeth has cheated death before. As far as I see it Hawkes amulet just was a quicker way than the usual one.

 

Not rly i didn't saw single 1 non-mage that wanted destroy world in da universe not mention to have even means to do that at worst non-mage can cause war that will be about territory and control rather than just destroy everyone and rly few non-mages can do that.

I don't remember any mage that wanted to destroy the world either. The only one who outright wanted to destroy the world so far was the archdemon.

[TheKomandorShepard]

a non-mage can do just as much damage as a magi just with mundane methods. Theres many ways to destroy the world

And details are what make confirmations/lies. Cory was confused didnt give much detail. So to claim he's right is debatable

Of course normal person can throw a sword on the gorund and it will start blights ups it won't...

Single average person at best can kill few peoples before society will put such person down well at worst dozens of peoples if person is smart. Mage can literally solo castle when possessed not mention raising army of undead or brining blights.

At worst as i said person can cause war that is about control not destruction and such person would require large amount of power that comes from society that can put you down if you become too destructive.So to start war you need army and more or less approval of society otherwise it will put you down...

 

Not rly as i said color of the city don't matter in that case... Corry confirmed chantry version at least important part of it color of the city have only religious importance...

 

 

I don't remember any mage that wanted to destroy the world either. The only one who outright wanted to destroy the world so far was the archdemon.

Qunari mage and venatori as they tear veil plus magisters but they rather wanted power screwing with things they shouldn't and almost destroyed world in process pretty much archdemons are consequences of that.

 

 

[Doominike]

People on the companions level can solo castles too. In DA2 Zevran tells you he's in the process of single-handedly annihilating the Crows. And most mages aren't that powerful, you can see many get cut down pretty easily during the annulment of Kirkwall

[raging_monkey]

Of course normal person can throw a sword on the gorund and it will start blights ups it won't...
Single person at best can kill few peoples before society will put such person down well at worst dozens of peoples if person is smart. Mage can literally solo castle when possessed not mention raising army of undead or brining blights.
At worst as i said person can cause war that is about control not destruction and such person would require large amount of power that comes from society that can put you down if you become too destructive.So to start war you need army and more or less approval of society otherwise it will put you down...
 
Not rly as i said color of the city don't matter in that case... Corry confirmed chantry version at least important part of it color of the city have only religious importance...

you give magi too much credit. Magi never caused the blights no real proof aside from a warped darkspawn. Again my friend details and we have very few aside from word of mouth and biased scriptures

[Lilaeth]

Well it is fair... as it fair as it is about what you can do or not...

 

 

Of course except for magister that went to the black city and now is darkspawn pretty much also he confirmed chantry version around that matter

We know they went there in their power hunger and brought blight corry is living proof.

 

 

I rly hope they will let me kill her for good i don't want omniscient villian sue around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not everyone regards her as a villain.  She's a bit more deus ex machina, with her own agenda.  Personally, I'd rather follow her than an Inquisitor!

[TheKomandorShepard]

People on the companions level can solo castles too. In DA2 Zevran tells you he's in the process of single-handedly annihilating the Crows. And most mages aren't that powerful, you can see many get cut down pretty easily during the annulment of Kirkwall

Protagonist are power of fantasy pretty much explains why my warden can solo tower full of demons when entire tower of templars could handle 2 abomnations.Zevaran is more less the same.

 

 

you give magi too much credit. Magi never caused the blights no real proof aside from a warped darkspawn. Again my friend details and we have very few aside from word of mouth and biased scriptures

Not rly considering mages are behind most destructive disasters in thedas like blights or now they tear veil.Zathrian created curse his ,connor a damn child took entire castle solo and started to create army of undead so well i don't give them too much credit.Yeah as i said even magister that went to the black city confirmed version or rather relevant part of that version. 

 

 

 

Not everyone regards her as a villain.  She's a bit more deus ex machina, with her own agenda.  Personally, I'd rather follow her than an Inquisitor!

Well pretty much your definition is better.

 

[RoraM]

I have no reason to fear Flemeth. As far as I'm concerned/from my perspective as the "player", she's only done good things and saved my ass. Storywise, she's also pivotal in saving Ferelden from the Blight. Every other blight before this was global and lasted centuries.. literally centuries of that crap. She had a plan to mobilize forces and make the 5th blight last only a year.

 

As for believing Morrigan over her, I don't see any reason to do that either. On average, Morrigan is more deceptive, ruthless, and has more personality issues than Flemeth. At least Flemeth can be sociable and funny and help people occassionally. She's got people skills at the very least.

 

I suppose one's suspicions of the danger Flemeth poses to Thedas largely depend on one's perception of Morrigan, who we know will play a pivotal role in DA:I and possibly explain the cause of the tears in the Veil. While I agree that Morrigan is ruthless, manipulative and abrasive, she was raised to be so by Flemeth. When not clearly withholding information, the Morrigan in my party spoke her mind. In comparison, Flemeth's attempt to pass herself off as a kooky but benign old woman with a soft spot in her heart for Grey Wardens seems the greater deception. Don't forget, she has had far longer to acquire the people skills Morrigan lacks and we only have the benefit of encountering her briefly three times.

 

While gratitude to Flemeth is due, by safeguarding the means by which an Old God's soul may be freed from the taint, she is repaid, which she acknowledges.

 

I, myself, do not view Flemeth's actions as altruistic. If she wanted merely to save lives, she wouldn't have been so specific as to which lives she saved or limited herself to only two. As for saving Ferelden from the Blight, why did she not rescue Cailan and Duncan, averting a divided Ferelden? Instead, the Fereldans went on to busy themselves with killing each other, depleting the numbers available to face the darkspawn threat. Saving Ferelden, therefore, would not seem to be Flemeth's priority, in keeping with an entity who has passed the centuries watching kingdoms come and go. It seems to me that saving Ferelden, just as its founding, might only have been a means to some unknown end, and does not preclude its ultimate destruction, particularly if she is an Old God and we see the return of the Maker in some cataclysmic battle for Thedas. 

[raging_monkey]

Protagonist are power of fantasy pretty much explains why my warden can solo tower full of demons when entire tower of templars could handle 2 abomnations.Zevaran is more less the same.
 
 

Not rly considering mages are behind most destructive disasters in thedas like blights or now they tear veil.Zathrian created curse his ,connor a damn child took entire castle solo and started to create army of undead so well i don't give them too much credit.Yeah as i said even magister that went to the black city confirmed version or rather relevant part of that version. 
 
 
 

Well pretty much your definition is better.

please them being behind most of the disasters of thedas is a streach. In over a 1100 years very few were mage related. And mundanes damage the veil to just slower

[Doominike]

The Warden is exceptionally powerful ya, the companions too, though to a much lesser extent. Which imo makes sense for those who save the world. Zathrian's curse was only dangerous to his clan and only because he was being a dick. Connor "soloed a castle" because he said yes to a Desire Demon, which are one of the most powerful types, and she summoned an army of lesser demons. The Veil tearing is because, either it got thinned too much by the current wars, which is as much normal people's fault as it is mages, if not more, or because of the Elder One, who is clearly evil

[RoraM]

Not everyone regards her as a villain.  She's a bit more deus ex machina, with her own agenda.  Personally, I'd rather follow her than an Inquisitor!

 

I, too, do not regard her as a villain. However, I don't agree that she is a true deus ex machina. Flemeth's character, even more than Morrigan, is integral to the story of Thedas and not simply a plot device to solve the problem of how one saves two Wardens from the hopelessly embattled Tower of Ishal nor how one gains Morrigan's loyalty and friendship. Her interventions have already had far-reaching consequences for at least two countries, if not the whole world.

 

With the dominance of the Chantry, we know so little of the time before the Veil. Even if Flemeth is merely a mage of incredible cunning and power, from Morrigan, we know shapeshifting requires close study of the animal form one shifts into, which would confirm Flemeth's prior association with at least one High Dragon, an association reinforced in The Silent Grove. If her agenda is to usher in an unending Dragon Age, what would that mean for Thedas?

 

While my personal tastes, too, tend against the Chantry and its associates, I would have to know what living under the Old Gods meant before committing myself to her cause. In Promethean fashion, it was the Old God Dumat who bestowed the Tevinter mages with the knowledge of blood magic. Why would a god give his followers this tool when other magic exists? l only oppose the use of blood magic when it requires taking the lives of innocent people without their consent, but I suspect it would be naïve to think the Old Gods did and would limit themselves thus. 

 

If my theory is correct, battling or siding with Flemeth (once all her carefully maneuvered pieces are in place), who very well may be unto dragons as kings are unto ordinary men, will be a world-changing event and her defeat will be the only thing that can end the Dragon Age.

[TheKomandorShepard]

please them being behind most of the disasters of thedas is a streach. In over a 1100 years very few were mage related. And mundanes damage the veil to just slower

Not rly streach considering that we had plnety disasters caused by mages in that 10 year not mention another disasters previous disasters.

Yes they can just slower is important part.

 

 

The Warden is exceptionally powerful ya, the companions too, though to a much lesser extent. Which imo makes sense for those who save the world. Zathrian's curse was only dangerous to his clan and only because he was being a dick. Connor "soloed a castle" because he said yes to a Desire Demon, which are one of the most powerful types, and she summoned an army of lesser demons. The Veil tearing is because, either it got thinned too much by the current wars, which is as much normal people's fault as it is mages, if not more, or because of the Elder One, who is clearly evil

Zathrian curse was dangerous for everyone (werewolves attacked everyone not only elves and were extremely aggressive) pretty much especially that in da 2 we know they start to lose their minds.Yes he was child that was possessed by demon no matter what demon every mage can be possessed and desire demons aren't rare.Not rly we saw mages destroying veil in redcliff so well...  

[RoraM]

Haha so true! I was replaying Origins not long ago and only then noticed that every abom/demon/evil thing going the dog picks up on. Mabari should take over as templars.

 

I personally think flemeth is an escaped old god, though what her intentions are who knows (well other than to survive). I think shes awesome

 

If Flemeth is neither an abomination nor a demon, perhaps the Mabari wouldn't pick up on it?

[RoraM]

Irrelevant, if she can come back from the dead she probably has unlimited tries. It's a bit like when you are save-scumming.

 

Flemeth is the queen of back-up plans.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Flemeth is the queen of back-up plans.

She is sooner sue that can predict everything and know everything about everyone...

[Doominike]

 

Zathrian curse was dangerous for everyone (werewolves attacked everyone not only elves and were extremely aggressive) pretty much especially that in da 2 we know they start to lose their minds.Yes he was child that was possessed by demon no matter what demon every mage can be possessed and desire demons aren't rare.Not rly we saw mages destroying veil in redcliff so well...  

The ones he cursed originally deserved it, and he's not the sole cause of werewolves, just the group we see. Others were created by spirits possessing wolves because the Veil in the forest is thin. The ex-werewolves we see in DA2 are jerks trying to exert vengeance on elves who had nothing to do with the curse. He was a dumb kid who outright asked a demon to help him (freaking Jowan was his teacher too), I've said before that I support teaching mages properly, just not imprisoning them for life unconditionally. The Veil tear in DAI is pretty explicitly the Elder One's fault, the mages present were there for a peace talk and they all died when it happened (minus the PC when applicable)

[raging_monkey]

The ones he cursed originally deserved it, and he's not the sole cause of werewolves, just the group we see. Others were created by spirits possessing wolves because the Veil in the forest is thin. The ex-werewolves we see in DA2 are jerks trying to exert vengeance on elves who had nothing to do with the curse. He was a dumb kid who outright asked a demon to help him (freaking Jowan was his teacher too), I've said before that I support teaching mages properly, just not imprisoning them for life unconditionally. The Veil tear in DAI is pretty explicitly the Elder One's fault, the mages present were there for a peace talk and they all died when it happened (minus the PC when applicable)

agreed

[Doominike]

I liked this monkey, he understands