110 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

The people who got cursed originally deserved it

 

The ones he cursed originally deserved it, and he's not the sole cause of werewolves, just the group we see. Others were created by spirits possessing wolves because the Veil in the forest is thin. The ex-werewolves we see in DA2 are jerks trying to exert vengeance on elves who had nothing to do with the curse. He was a dumb kid who outright asked a demon to help him (freaking Jowan was his teacher too), I've said before that I support teaching mages properly, just not imprisoning them for life unconditionally. The Veil tear in DAI is pretty explicitly the Elder One's fault, the mages present were there for a peace talk and they all died when it happened (minus the PC when applicable)

Who and what deserves is up to individual zathrian created dangerous and destructive curse because he was angry if you want justify mage blowing up your city with you in it because mage was angry it is your pick but it doesn't change that mage destroyed city...

 

It has something do with curse as they started to lose their minds.

 

Connor was a mage and wheter he was dumb or not it is up to you but by that logic we have plnety dumb mages who end possessed so well no...

 

Veil tear is mages cause as we can see in demo they do that for him...

[raging_monkey]

Who and what deserves is up to individual zathrian created dangerous and destructive curse because he was angry if you want justify mage blowing up your city with you in it because mage was angry it is your pick but it doesn't change that mage destroyed city...
 
It has something do with curse as they started to lose their minds.
 
Connor was a mage and wheter he was dumb or not it is up to you but by that logic we have plnety dumb mages who end possessed so well no...
 
Veil tear is mages cause as we can see in demo they do that for him...

i love you broad arguements lol everyones guilty

[TheKomandorShepard]

i love you broad arguements lol everyones guilty

If i blow up city im guilty of blowing up city not much of thinking...

And i doubt peoples like idea of dying because mage did that for X reason.

[Icefalcon]

I suspect we'll find out who or what Flemeth really is but probably not until DA4 as no big mention of her for this one so far.

 

As for theories about her being an Old God, while it's plausible it's worth remembering they are not the only game out there, the Dalish have Gods too. Now I'm not suggesting that's what Flemeth is but I am thinking we may not (yet) have seen anything else quite like her.

[raging_monkey]

If i blow up city im guilty of blowing up city not much of thinking...
And i doubt peoples like idea of dying because mage did that for X reason.

you dont know that by your game we magi love to blow things up and go super-mage(abomination joke) lol

But we've derailed this thread enough. I shall take my leave lest we devolve into hostilities

[TheKomandorShepard]

you dont know that by your game we magi love to blow things up and go super-mage(abomination joke) lol

But we've derailed this thread enough. I shall take my leave lest we devolve into hostilities

Sadly mages are constant danger as i constantly i have to clean mess they cause in games or other protagonist have to do that in other products like comics.

[Doominike]

Up to individual ? The people Zathrian originally cursed killed his son and gangraped his daughter, being turned into mindless beasts is better than what I would have done to them

 

I agreed that Connor should have been taught proper magic

 

The Veil Tear is the main villain's fault, he's evil, all his followers are bad guys, of course they do bad things

[Cyrus Amell]

Back in Origins I was able to defeat Flemeth in single combat using an Arcane Warrior and a prodigous degree of potions and flame balm (on hard mode as I recall). I felt that my dispute with her was personal, my reason being to protect or atleast momentarily safeguard Morrigan. It therefore made no sense to drag half my team through a swamp just to face her. I had always thought that she did not use her full might in the fight, but then again Morrigan never believed that she was permenanently defeated as she swore to be on the lookout for her eventual return.

 

Honestly, if Flemeth is not an Old God free of the Taint then I'll wager she was one of the origional Magister Lords who tried to enter the City of Light within the Fade and somehow returned free of their curse. She could have even been one of the founding members of the Tevinter Imperium for all we know, age is not an issue for a woman of her powers. Eventually her true origin will come to light and I am sure it will not fail to dissapoint.

[RoraM]

you give magi too much credit. Magi never caused the blights no real proof aside from a warped darkspawn. Again my friend details and we have very few aside from word of mouth and biased scriptures

 

A dose of healthy skepticism is never remiss, but I'm curious as to what proof would be sufficient to prove the Tevinter magisters were the source of the Blights? Perhaps a vision of seeing the magisters actually entering the city (gold or already black) and transforming into darkspawn? Would it depend who helped you achieve this vision, given Dreamers can manipulate the Fade?

 

To our best knowledge, Blights occur when the darkspawn find and taint an imprisoned Old God calling to them, creating an Archdemon. We accept that Archdemons exist and are responsible for Blights because we have the cutscenes of the Grey Wardens' dreams and how killing one ends the Blight.

 

So, if Blights are caused by darkspawn and darkspawn are the result of magisters entering the Maker's city (regardless of whether they caused the corruption or were corrupted), then the magisters caused the Blights. Do we have other information that might lead us to believe darkspawn were created another way? Or do you think, like myself, that the Blights' roots stem beyond the hubris of magisters, to even the Maker himself?

 

 

Back in Origins I was able to defeat Flemeth in single combat using an Arcane Warrior and a prodigous degree of potions and flame balm (on hard mode as I recall). I felt that my dispute with her was personal, my reason being to protect or atleast momentarily safeguard Morrigan. It therefore made no sense to drag half my team through a swamp just to face her. I had always thought that she did not use her full might in the fight, but then again Morrigan never believed that she was permenanently defeated as she swore to be on the lookout for her eventual return.

 

Honestly, if Flemeth is not an Old God free of the Taint then I'll wager she was one of the origional Magister Lords who tried to enter the City of Light within the Fade and somehow returned free of their curse. She could have even been one of the founding members of the Tevinter Imperium for all we know, age is not an issue for a woman of her powers. Eventually her true origin will come to light and I am sure it will not fail to dissapoint.

 

Interesting! I never even considered she might have once been one of the original Magister Lords who escaped the Maker's city without being corrupted! Hm. If so, then her role would be downgraded to that of a servant to the Old Gods and guardian of dragonkin, a Father Kolgrim-like figure to Urthemiel, Razikale, and Lusacan. Somehow, I find that more disappointing than the prospect of her being an Old God.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Up to individual ? The people Zathrian originally cursed killed his son and gangraped his daughter, being turned into mindless beasts is better than what I would have done to them

 

I agreed that Connor should have been taught proper magic

 

The Veil Tear is the main villain's fault, he's evil, all his followers are bad guys, of course they do bad things

It is as you look on that moral way and morality is up to individual.He started destructive curse because as i said was angry pretty much i no real diffrence if he did it for money , power or just because... 

 

It doesn't matter traning or not every mage can become an abomnation as showed even adult including old mages can end and end as abomnations.

 

There is no such thing as evil there are peoples that do things for reasons despite reasons i rather doubt you would like being blown up by mage no matter what was his reason do that because someone gave money , because guards killed his sister or for kicks.

 

Mages are walking unstable bombs and danger to every society and morals don't matter as demons don't care about that as well amount destruction they have caused for whatever reasons.
  

[raging_monkey]

A dose of healthy skepticism is never remiss, but I'm curious as to what proof would be sufficient to prove the Tevinter magisters were the source of the Blights? Perhaps a vision of seeing the magisters actually entering the city (gold or already black) and transforming into darkspawn? Would it depend who helped you achieve this vision, given Dreamers can manipulate the Fade?
 
To our best knowledge, Blights occur when the darkspawn find and taint an imprisoned Old God calling to them, creating an Archdemon. We accept that Archdemons exist and are responsible for Blights because we have the cutscenes of the Grey Wardens' dreams and how killing one ends the Blight.
 
So, if Blights are caused by darkspawn and darkspawn are the result of magisters entering the Maker's city (regardless of whether they caused the corruption or were corrupted), then the magisters caused the Blights. Do we have other information that might lead us to believe darkspawn were created another way? Or do you think, like myself, that the Blights' roots stem beyond the hubris of magisters, to even the Maker himself?

what i believe is irrelevant. I just think we lack all the details... as my father said "only a fool believes everything. Though facts are important take them with salt"

*Drags on cig* i just think we are looking at it wrong to some extent. But again i do not seek derailment.

Sadly mages are constant danger as i constantly i have to clean mess they cause in games or other protagonist have to do that in other products like comics.

TKS im not going to argue with you. Ive had my fill

[Doominike]

Technically the Magisters only brought the Taint from the Black City, they didn't create it themselves. And there's still no proof that it is or was the maker's residence. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

TKS im not going to argue with you. Ive had my fill

There is nothing to argue here that was simple fact.

 

 

Technically the Magisters only brought the Taint from the Black City, they didn't create it themselves. And there's still no proof that it is or was the maker's residence. 

They brought taint wheter it was there already or they created it they caused blights and created darkspawn rest doesn't matter.

[Inquisitor Julianos]

Flemeth be Fen'Harel, Fen'Harel (the dread wolf) tricked all the gods into leaving, and was the only god left. (Maker?) So Flemeth is God - *only half Joking*

[Doominike]

What's funny is, the Magisters technically brought the Taint to the world by accident, since their goal was to become gods

[raging_monkey]

There is nothing to argue here that was simple fact.
 
 

They brought taint wheter it was there already or they created it they caused blights and created darkspawn rest doesn't matter.

whatever say my friend hehehe

[myahele]

Anybody have an idea what Calanhad secret might've been that was important to the Witch (Flemeth?). Reading up the lore Calenhad also disappeared mysteriously, ala Maric

[Doominike]

How many people disappear mysteriously in that setting ?

[RoraM]

Anybody have an idea what Calanhad secret might've been that was important to the Witch (Flemeth?). Reading up the lore Calenhad also disappeared mysteriously, ala Maric

I don't think anyone knows the secret Calenhad told (I suspect this may eventually be revealed and may even be important in the grand scheme of things), but there no longer is any mystery surrounding Maric's disappearance after reading Until We Sleep.

[Spectre Impersonator]

I'm not particularly afraid of her, since my mabari killed her quite easily while my Warden stood there firing arrows.

[Tevinter Rose]

I like Flemeth, never feared her, I also hope she's in DAI.

 

[herkles]

I always kind of imagined her a bit like Baba Yaga tbh.

[sky_captain]

I personally think that Flemeth might be the Forbidden One referred to as the Formless One. We see how she can shape shift, store a piece of her own essence separate and reconstitute herself from that small piece, and posses her "children." She seems to have no set form.

 

The Forbidden Ones are demons that are believed to predate Tevinter and rumored to have taught the magisters blood magic in the first place.

[LadyHails]

This does contain spoilers, for Origins, Dragon Age 2, Witch Hunt, and Silent Grove....and just a smidge of Inquisition.

 

So, everyone has their theories about Flemeth. I just want to put my own thoughts out here. Agree, disagree, expand, theorize, flesh out my many gaping logic holes, whatever; do what you will. I'm interested in your responses.

 

(p.s. I am NOT going to site every single line of dialogue text I reference... you've played it, you'll remember it... maybe.)

 

RoraM. briefly mentioned that Flemeth may indeed be an Old God... that's where I'm going with this, by the way.

 

If Flemeth's an Old God, then I'm going out of the wimpy little limb and saying she's either Razikale, the Old God of Mystery (because who doesn't think Flemeth is mysterious?) or Lusacan, the Old God of Night (but, I'm leaning more toward Lusacan being the "Elder One" and the Vinatorri being some sort of Old God cultist. Again. Wimpiest Limb Ever.)

 

When the "Maker" (yes, I'm using quotation as his existence isn't proven) caged the Old God underground (not sure how that happened if the Maker doesn't exist, but this is all conjecture...as is almost all the lore in Thedas), she used a connection with the Fade to lure someone (probably an elven keeper or first) down to her cage to perform the ritual to place her within an object, or to perform or a ritual of possession. Perhaps she had convinced them to bring an ancient artifact (an eluvian), so that she could travel through the portal in her new uncaged body. She eventually came to possess a woman named Flemeth (and she ended up keeping the name), who was married to a noble man, who killed her lover. Flemeth then spent the years encouraging legend and myth about her to keep her true nature under wraps.

 

Now for a list of my supporting evidence (feel free to tell me if I got something wrong, it's been awhile since Origins.):

 

1. Flemeth using the connection to the Fade (does that make Old Gods demons?) to lure a victim to her cage in order to be freed...

This is possible, because in the lore of the origins of the Blight, the people of the Imperium, distraught at their banishment, sought out the Old Gods, who called to them through the Fade, taught them magic, and encouraged the first magisters to attempt to usurp the Golden City.

 

2. Flemeth's victim being a keeper or first... despite the trials of the Dalish, they still retained some of their knowledge and artifacts from the old ways. You can see this in Dragon Age 2 in your quest help Merrill, in Act 2, retrieve the Arulin'Holm, a tool needed to restore Merrill's Eluvian. You also see proof of eluvians continued existence in the Dalish Elf Origin of Dragon Age Origins, in which you and (Pol?) discover the strange portal (an Eluvian) in a cave.

 

3. Flemeth's long history of possession... In Origins, you discover, through dialogue with Morrigan, Flemeth, and even Leliana, that Flemeth has many myths surrounding her long and mysterious existence. Leliana or Morrigan (I can't remember specifically) tells a legend of a Flemeth, a woman married to a noble man, who, in a pique of jealousy, slaughters Flemeth's lover. This Flemeth could possibly be merely one more of her many possessions, and she decided to keep the name, either out of remembrance of a lover, or as a caution that love leads to betrayal. (Again! Say it with me! [kuh n-jek-cher]!)

 

4. In Witch Hunt, Morrigan speaks of Flemeth..."She is no blood mage, no abomination...she is not even truly human." I say this is pretty valid proof, because Morrigan knows more about Flemeth than we could ever even imagine.

 

5. There are rumors in the DA-verse, that even after the magisters razed the temples of the Old Gods and slaughtered their priests [because they felt betrayed by the Old God (as there was no Golden City for them to rule or they were unsuccessful when the Maker cast them out...which ever side of the lore you wish to believe), there were still obscure cults that worshiped the Old Gods. In Silent Grove, Yavana, one of Flemeth's "daughters" claims that the ritual of possession is a "gift". (Now, if that doesn't sound like sycophant, occultist worship...)

 

And Finally....

 

6. At the end of Witch Hunt, you track Morrigan down to a great chamber deep within the earth where she is preparing to escape... Let's see... Deep chamber within the earth (check! The Old Gods were caged underground), Eluvian, through which Morrigan has tracked based on knowledge left behind by Flemeth (check! I did theorize that she'd use one to escape!), and DUN-DUN-DUUUUN! - one giant freaking dragon skeleton! (which makes since if she simply leaves her previous body behind during a ritual of possession).

 

So, there it all is... there's so much more I could say on the subject, but it's pretty much theory on top of theory with no real proof ...and most of it makes me sound like Alistair (who I adore), pouting after being denied a feast of his dearest Fade dreams.

 

"But, but... cheese!"