572 réponses à ce sujet

[LiquidLyrium]

I had a huuuuuge problem in DA:O in that I rarely understood what sort of emotion or inflection I was supposed to be saying stuff with. Like, I thought I was saying to Cullen "yes I'll kill all the blood mages" (bc that seems reasonable) and then suddenly Wynne is attacking me??  This happened a LOT where suddenly people were mad at me and I'm like "What did I say that was so wrong?"

Modifié par LiquidLyrium, 16 octobre 2014 - 06:23 .

[pdusen]

I have a hard time imagining myself buying a new Bioware game without a voiced protagonist. I suppose I could bring myself to do it, albeit cautiously, but I would definitely be skeptical.

I do feel that the dialog wheel is superior to just lines of text, although I could take or leave the paraphrasing.

And really, those are three separate issues. I have no idea why people conflate them so often.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I had a huuuuuge problem in DA:O in that rarely understood what sort of emotion or inflection I was supposed to be saying stuff with.

I've always invented my own, just like in tabeltop gaming. And I dislike that the voiced games seem to have taken that from me.

[aTigerslunch]

eh, I prefer the voiced cause I cant quite reach normal female tone. 

[LiquidLyrium]

I've always invented my own, just like in tabeltop gaming. And I dislike that the voiced games seem to have taken that from me.

 

I dunno I find it hard to reconcile that when people react in an unexpected way myself. Especially when it's "Says something innocuous" "HOW DARE U SAY THAT TO ME????" or like that whole exchange about shoes with Leliana? Is the Warden humoring her? Making fun of her? Emphatically agreeing with her?? The world may never know.

 

I have enough problems with trying to read people in real life, it's a lot harder for me to read what is going on in Origins when half of the party contributes nothing but text.

I mean, if you're going to do that, some type of color coding might be nice at least to indicate emotion on the protag's part.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I have enough problems with trying to read people in real life, it's a lot harder for me to read what is going on in Origins when half of the party contributes nothing but text.

I've just accepted that I can't read people IRL. So that I can't in-game either just feels natural. I don't think I should be able to (which is why I didn't like DA2's icons - they telegraphed the reactions).

I mean, if you're going to do that, some type of color coding might be nice at least to indicate emotion on the protag's part.

If that were there, I would try to ignore it. I would rather be able to invent my own.

[Eudaemonium]

I've just accepted that I can't read people IRL. So that I can't in-game either just feels natural. I don't think I should be able to (which is why I didn't like DA2's icons - they telegraphed the reactions).
If that were there, I would try to ignore it. I would rather be able to invent my own.

 

DA2's icons didn't telegraph reactions, though, they telegraphed Hawke's tone. The reactions were the other characters' own.

[Kohaku]

To me having a voiced character doesn't really matter. It doesn't make me any more or less invested in the game because the character (and his voice) is just a means to an end.

 

However, as much I love reading I have to admit that it was jarring in DA:O people were speaking to the character and the character wasn't saying anything back. She just sat there like a doll and her mouth didn't move, there were options that didn't make her speak but she was still responding with no voice. It was just bizarre. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

DA2's icons didn't telegraph reactions, though, they telegraphed Hawke's tone. The reactions were the other characters' own.

I could generally tell what they would be based on the tone icon. That seemed wrong.

[RevilFox]

I'd be curious to hear how you feel about, say, Mario in Super Mario RPG, Sylvius. Not only was the main character not voiced (nobody in that game was), he didn't have any text at all. 

[In Exile]

I could generally tell what they would be based on the tone icon. That seemed wrong.

That's an implementation problem. Flirts are especially egregious as - aside from Aveline - they were all well received and successful. Fliritng is difficult IRL. Well meaning attempts can fail. The game should reflect that reality. The charming/sarcastic options were also too often correctly identified, even when Hawke had more subtle delivery.

[Sylvius the Mad]

That's an implementation problem. Flirts are especially egregious as - aside from Aveline - they were all well received and successful. Fliritng is difficult IRL. Well meaning attempts can fail. The game should reflect that reality. The charming/sarcastic options were also too often correctly identified, even when Hawke had more subtle delivery.

From my perspective, this created a problem where none had previously existed.

[Eudaemonium]

I found they offered a quasi-solution to a problem I had considerably in DAO. In DA2 I could usually read a situation well enough that I knew 'if I crack a joke here they will probably get angry' (Saemus' death being an obvious example). The issue I had in DAO was that it seemed less like 'I cracked a joke inappropriately and they got angry' and more 'that line was actually not meant to be a joke, but actually a serious statement, and they took it as such'.

 

I found it far easier to get into Hawke's mind as a character and RP them accordingly within the limits of the game. I had a lot more trouble with the Warden, who I never really felt like I got as a character. I could construct headcanon, but that headcanon was never reflected in the game world, and I find that incredibly immersion breaking.

 

I think this just comes down to what people actually want in an RPG though. Lots of people seem to hate Hawke because they found her/his 'defined' nature difficult to RP through and immersion-breaking as a result, whereas I found Hawke's quasi-malleable defined-ness to be an aid to RPing. I know Sylvius is very into emergent narrative, though, which is something I only value in titles where the game world allows for it (otherwise I'd just go and write fiction to do tabletop).

[In Exile]

From my perspective, this created a problem where none had previously existed.

The problem always existed. It was just different in character. Before you could always be misunderstood and yet never do anything about it, even if we fully accept your view. Now we effectively cannot be misunderstood and can't do anything about it.

[DarthLaxian]

I'm glad the main protag has voice. I cannot stand "dead" protagonists, they have no personality. Nothing.

 

Of course they do - they have the player (unless you are calling yourself a dead automaton?)...yeah, I would love a return of the silent protag - but I would need some stronger writing (memorable lines - things that you read and can keep in mind)

 

I don't hate voiced protagonist (as long as they let you select the voice)...but I prefer silent, because I keep imagining my own pronounciation and inflection and the voice distracts me, I do not need it)

 

greetings LAX

ps: They will probably not change it anymore though, because with a silent protagonist you can't have any auto-dialogue (and cutscenes don't go over that well either...on the other hand, games should start depending on cutscenes less and less IMHO, now that we can have as good visuals with actual game graphics instead of pre-rendered scenes etc.)

[pdusen]

I could generally tell what they would be based on the tone icon. That seemed wrong.

 

In my experience, if you successfully telegraph your intentions to another person with tone and/or body language, their responses usually are rather predictable (with some exceptions; for example, flirting is rather hard). In that respect, DA2 gave me a tool I didn't have in DAO to have conversations more naturally. I know there were plenty of incidents in DAO where a companion's reaction made no sense at all given the tone I thought I was using. That was a bigger problem for me than vague paraphrases in DA2 ever were.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The problem always existed. It was just different in character. Before you could always be misunderstood and yet never do anything about it, even if we fully accept your view. Now we effectively cannot be misunderstood and can't do anything about it.

It was only a problem before if we assume misunderstanding.

I don't do that.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In my experience, if you successfully telegraph your intentions to another person with tone and/or body language, their responses usually are rather predictable (with some exceptions; for example, flirting is rather hard)

I'll happily concede that conditional, but I question the plausibility of the antecedent.

[Remmirath]

I have a hard time imagining myself buying a new Bioware game without a voiced protagonist. I suppose I could bring myself to do it, albeit cautiously, but I would definitely be skeptical.

I do feel that the dialog wheel is superior to just lines of text, although I could take or leave the paraphrasing.

And really, those are three separate issues. I have no idea why people conflate them so often.

Because they've always appeared in the games as a package deal.

The paraphrasing is probably what bothers me the most, since it's what makes me unable to make an informed dialogue choice, and is what causes out of character comments. The voice bothers me the second most, because it cuts down dramatically on replayability, because it imposes somebody else's idea of how my character would be delivering the lines, and because the voice often contrasts with the kind of character I want to play.

I care far less about the wheel format than either of those two; it's simply associated with them, and thus far, has not been separate from them. I find the list to be more elegant, and I prefer the way it meshes with the game (in Dragon Age; it felt less out of place in Mass Effect), but on its own it would only be a less aesthetic choice to me.
 

eh, I prefer the voiced cause I cant quite reach normal female tone.

Do you read the lines aloud if there is no voice?
 

I dunno I find it hard to reconcile that when people react in an unexpected way myself. Especially when it's "Says something innocuous" "HOW DARE U SAY THAT TO ME????" or like that whole exchange about shoes with Leliana? Is the Warden humoring her? Making fun of her? Emphatically agreeing with her?? The world may never know.

I have enough problems with trying to read people in real life, it's a lot harder for me to read what is going on in Origins when half of the party contributes nothing but text.
I mean, if you're going to do that, some type of color coding might be nice at least to indicate emotion on the protag's part.

All of that could easily happen in real life, especially if you have trouble reading people. I'm quite terrible at reading people, really; I've just come to the conclusion that I'm not going to be able to figure out how they will react to what I say, and (unless my character is supposed to be very good at it), I don't find it at all odd that they wouldn't be able to figure that out either. I have certainly had people get rather bent out of shape about comments I thought were completely innocuous. It's not unrealistic.

As for the question about the Leliana conversation, that depends on your character. It's up to you. If the character were voiced, that would no longer be under your control, which is a problem I have with it. One of my Wardens was humouring her, one was trying to understand her better, two were making fun of her, one actually agreed, and three never even had that conversation with her for various reasons.

It would be odd if half of the party had only text. It's not odd if the one character you have created and are actually completely playing is handled differently, because that character is different, because they're your character, not one of the NPCs in the party. Yes, if a random companion had only text, it would be strange -- but you wouldn't be controlling that character except in combat, so it's a very different thing.

I wouldn't like the colour coding. It would be easier to ignore than the voice, so it would be preferable to the voice for me, but I wouldn't like it.
 

In my experience, if you successfully telegraph your intentions to another person with tone and/or body language, their responses usually are rather predictable (with some exceptions; for example, flirting is rather hard). In that respect, DA2 gave me a tool I didn't have in DAO to have conversations more naturally. I know there were plenty of incidents in DAO where a companion's reaction made no sense at all given the tone I thought I was using. That was a bigger problem for me than vague paraphrases in DA2 ever were.

In my experience, people rarely react the way that I expect them to if I am trying to predict how they react, so I don't usually bother to try.

I could see adding more indicators if the character has a certain level of persuasion/diplomacy/whatever social skill, but I think for most people, it is really not that easy to tell what effects your words are going to have.

[Kieran G.]

The only RPG i like a Silent Protagonist is the Fallout Series. otherwise i want Dragon Age to keep its High Fantasy voice acting, it makes the story much richer.

[IST]

I love the fact the protagonist this time round has a voice.

 

I love the fact we have more than 1 per gender to choose from as well.

 

Thank you BW

[Shahadem]

I hate when the main character is a mute.

 

Finally giving FemShep Jennifer Hale's voice was a huge improvement over previous Bioware games.

 

Do the people who don't like their character having a voice actually sit there and read the text out loud? That's just what it feels like to me after reading some of the posts in this thread. Since I hate my own voice that would never work for me. That's probably why I prefer having my character be voiced.

[Shahadem]

It's nice to see other people with this opinion. I've voiced it before (not here) and usually get heavily criticsed for it. And this is coming from someone who likes quite a few so-called "JRPGs" [Chrono Trigger and FFVI remain two of my all time favourite games] - they're simply not role playing games. You very rarely get to actually role play the characters. You control them in battle, you might get to level them up, but you never actually control their character, their personality. You don't control how they react to events. You can't influence the story at all.  Those things are what roleplaying is about.

 

As a contrast, here's a game which I consider to be one of the finest RPGs of recent years, yet I doubt many people would put in in that category: The Walking Dead. Sure, there's no levelling up, there no loot, many of the things oft-associated with RPGs are missing, but at it's core, it lets you roleplay the lead character in a way very few games, even including most RPGs, do.

 

I think this is all true, however sometimes what happens on screen is the same action I would have performed if I had been able to control the character.

 

Such as when Lightning punched Snow. Only I would do that every time I saw him. And maybe murdered him when he proposed to my 14 year old sister.

[Remmirath]

Do the people who don't like their character having a voice actually sit there and read the text out loud? That's just what it feels like to me after reading some of the posts in this thread. Since I hate my own voice that would never work for me. That's probably why I prefer having my character be voiced.

Some of them might, for all I know (one person implied that they did or would, but I think that's it). I certainly don't. Nobody I know who prefers unvoiced PCs does either. I simply prefer to imagine how the character sounds -- especially since to some extent I'm going to do that anyhow, even if the PC is voiced, and then the voice acting will contrast with how I think they would be saying the line in question.