77 réponses à ce sujet

[Tevinter Rose]

If possible I would give the Dales to the elves definitely.

[Sifr]

I'd give them the land back in a heartbeat, since the Exalted March against the Dales was uncalled for and just an excuse for Orlais to nick more land.

[In Exile]

Uh... haven't there been generations upon generations of Orlesians living in the Dales? It's going to be difficult to dislodge them without resorting to forceful resettlement, which while that would be hilarious ironic for them, it would still create a massive cluster of logistical problems. Couldn't the Elves just try to colonize the Donarks or something?

So, yeah, need to play the game before I make the decision.

Any solution that depends on massive human rights abuses is a non-starter. Particularly where were talking about crimes against humanity and genocide

[Battlebloodmage]

My character would, but I wouldn't. I hate those Deus Ex Machina where everything just happens to work out. It's a role playing game about conflicts and wars, the game wouldn't be interested if all the internal conflicts just resolves. It may very well turn into the Sims: Medieval.

[earl of the north]

Since the Dales are not an empty territory you're in effect talking about stealing land in the Dales from its current human occupants to hand it over to either a group of racist nomads that has a history of violence against anybody not of their race and religion, or to a group of oppressed elves who have no experience in either defending themselves or any knowledge of how to survive outside of the alienages.

 

Either way you are looking at a highly unstable 'country' in which the human population is very likely to be ethnically cleansed sooner or later and is very likely to be at war with its neighbours in short order.

 

So unless you have a elven government in exile with a large disciplined army and ability to train large numbers of elves in the necessary skills to create this new utopia you are likely to end up with a failed state with various Dalish Clans attempting to rule their 'inferior' city elf cousins.

 

Edit: Thinking about it the only scenario for an Elven Dales to me is as a part of the Qun, since they can and will assign and train the elves with the necessary skills.

[TK514]

During the crisis?  Absolutely not.  The Inquisition should be focused on closing the Breach, not playing regional politics.  Particularly when such an action could create additional problems that would hinder the Inquisition's ability to deal with the real issue.

 

After the global crisis has been dealt with, I can see hosting diplomatic talks between the various parties to determine if land could be set aside for Dalish settlements.  Of course, this would require the Dalish to compromise, which they have thus far been characterized as unwilling to do.  The humans have, obviously, been less than considerate of elven issues as well, but with a master diplomat on staff and having recently saved the world, I expect the Inquisition would be able to request certain considerations from the dominant human powers with a better than fair chance of them being granted.

 

What I don't think the Inquisition will be able to do, at any point, is a military takeover of a region for the purpose of gifting it to the Dalish.  Not only are the Dalish completely unprepared to accept or use such a gift, the military might of the Inquisition appears to be mostly borrowed from other powers.  Orlesian soldiers wearing the Inquisition's colors for the duration of the crisis will still be Orlesian soldiers.  I find it highly unlikely that they would agree to or follow any orders that would be seen as treason against Orlais.  Plus, once the crisis has abated, most of them will likely relinquish their part in the Inquisition in order to return to their homes and previous positions in the Orlesian military.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think the best, or at least most secure, way to go about this is while giving the Dales to the Elves, it should be as a protectorate or some sort of special administrative zone. That way it still belongs to Orlais and thus they won't try to reclaim it and the elves have a place where they are treated as equals. 

[Who Knows]

I would definitely give the Dales back to the elves.

[Mykel54]

I would give it to the andrastian elves, so that is the city elves and those dalish that leave their clan and convert. Also, it would be as a region under the empire of Orlais, so the orlesians have the right to deploy soldiers and everything to make the sure the terms are kept and the elves are truly andrastian, and to keep the dalish clans out.

[ComedicSociopathy]

I think my major objective when it comes to this issue is figuring out how to resolve it without being a dick to anyone. 

[Gannayev of Dreams]

Indeed I would.  I'd love to see how the dynamics of Thedas politics changes with a strong Elven society at the table.

 

And, naturally, it only seems fair.

[Sifr]

Edit: Thinking about it the only scenario for an Elven Dales to me is as a part of the Qun, since they can and will assign and train the elves with the necessary skills.

 

 

How would giving the traditional home of the Dalish Elves, one already stolen by humans, to the Qunari, solve anything? If anything, you'd end up infuriating the Dalish even more and make the situation worse, especially since the Qunari consider the belief in any kind of dieties is something that needs to be "corrected".

 

If I can being excused for using a real-life example for a moment, this is kind of like saying you could solve the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, by suggesting both sides would get along if they just converted to Buddhism?

 

I simply don't see how a Qunari-lead Dales could end up being anything but a disaster, as you'd probably end up uniting the Dalish clans everywhere into attempting to retake the land and oust the Qunari. And I have no doubt that that'd probably end up bad for everyone involved.

[MissOuJ]

Absolutely.

 

After I made sure the Dalish recognized that this was not, infact, their chance to forcibly "re-educate" the "flat-ears" into "the proper elven ways", and that the city elves will have just as much power as the Dalish do. If the city elves want to convert to the old religion, learn and study the ancient elven lore then sure, go right ahead. But what I've seen in the games (and what I read in The Masked Empire in particular) gives be the impression the Dalish think that they'd automatically become the new Elven Nobility if the Dales were returned to the Elves, and I have a feeling that the city elves' lot in that equation wouldn't be particularly rosy. Would it be worse than in the Alienages? ... Probably not, but if we're doing this we're doing it right.

 

The human settlements might propose a problem - forcible removal would not be an option, but I guess being told "Oh, you're welcomed to stay... just remember you'll be under elven jurisdiction fron now on" would move some carts and fast. Add inquisitorial compensation (paid by the nobles if I can wring it out of them) for the trouble of relocation and that problem would be largely dealt with.

 

Well, it probably wouldn't be that easy... but I can dream.

[TK514]

I simply don't see how a Qunari-lead Dales could end up being anything but a disaster, as you'd probably end up uniting the Dalish clans everywhere into attempting to retake the land and oust the Qunari. And I have no doubt that that'd probably end up bad for everyone involved.

 

They haven't been able to unite in the last 700 years against the people who conquered them, made their religion and leaders illegal, and split their populace into peasants and exiles.  I don't see how or why they would suddenly find some magical unity to defy the Qunari.

 

Not that I think a Qunari state in southern Thedas has much of a life expectancy.

[Sifr]

They haven't been able to unite in the last 700 years against the people who conquered them, made their religion and leaders illegal, and split their populace into peasants and exiles.  I don't see how or why they would suddenly find some magical unity to defy the Qunari.

 

Not that I think a Qunari state in southern Thedas has much of a life expectancy.

 

True, but having the Qunari take the land after all that would be the sort of slap in the face that might cause some Dalish to want to do something rash? If you've wanted to reclaim your lands for hundreds of years, only to lose it to yet another bunch of invaders, that's the sort of straw that'd break the camel's back.

 

Especially if you were a Dalish Warden who requested the Hinterland's boon, since it (apparently) didn't pan out?

[jlb524]

Just the Dales? Why stop there?

*evil elf laugh*

[The Baconer]

No. Creation of a semi-independent Elven state would not "fix" the actual problem. I'll be going to great lengths to empower the (city) elves, but this is not the way to go. I would definitely consider having an Elf reign over it as a vassal, but that would depend on how this relationship would benefit the Inquisition.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Sure why not. They are just going to mess it up again, so my Inquisitor will get to watch an impressive train wreck as they implode for w/e reason and then blame the Shems for it.

[Patchwork]

If I could I'd give the elves an empty island and make them go and establish themselves there. The Dales have belonged to the humans a lot longer than it ever belonged to the elves and a strip of land between two countries who see them as something less is not a good place for the elves to be especially as those two countries have armies and  the elves don't.

 

The elves need somewhere safe where the factions can figure things out, become a united society again and that includes the dalish clans who are very independent from one another. The humans have continued winning because the elves are fractured, city elves identify themselves as orlaisian, tevinter etc and don't seem to have much in common with one another.  

 

The Hinterlands was a good opportunity, the lands were tainted so it wouldn't have a big human population but Ferelden nobles probably objected loudly to the elves getting it and the new ruler crumbled just like with the mage boon. 

[Inquisitor Julianos]

I would put the Dales as its own Kingdom under the elves, but with close political ties to Celene, she's pretty damn sympathetic to their plight.

[themikefest]

I would give them back in one playthrough and  I would keep them for myself in another just to see what effects it has on the game

[Br3admax]

What rights do the elves have to said land to warrant me giving it back?

[Inquisitor Julianos]

Any solution that depends on massive human rights abuses is a non-starter. Particularly where were talking about crimes against humanity and genocide

Would it count as a crime against humanity?... i dont think elves are human *evil finger steeples*

[Killdren88]

Uh... haven't there been generations upon generations of Orlesians living in the Dales? It's going to be difficult to dislodge them without resorting to forceful resettlement, which while that would be hilarious ironic for them, it would still create a massive cluster of logistical problems. Couldn't the Elves just try to colonize the Donarks or something? 

 

So, yeah, need to play the game before I make the decision. 

 

So what? If they want to blame anyone blame the Orlesian Government for stealing it from the elves to begin with.

[earl of the north]

How would giving the traditional home of the Dalish Elves, one already stolen by humans, to the Qunari, solve anything? If anything, you'd end up infuriating the Dalish even more and make the situation worse, especially since the Qunari consider the belief in any kind of dieties is something that needs to be "corrected".

 

If I can being excused for using a real-life example for a moment, this is kind of like saying you could solve the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, by suggesting both sides would get along if they just converted to Buddhism?

 

I simply don't see how a Qunari-lead Dales could end up being anything but a disaster, as you'd probably end up uniting the Dalish clans everywhere into attempting to retake the land and oust the Qunari. And I have no doubt that that'd probably end up bad for everyone involved.

 

There are several problems with that statement...

 

1. The Dales were the traditional home of the Dalish and the city elves, why would the Dalish have a greater claim over the Dales than the majority of elves they abandoned.

 

2. They lost a war and were conquered, almost every country on earth contains territory that once belonged to someone else are we all living on stolen land?

 

3. Why would the Dales be dominated by the Dalish religion, the majority of the Dales population would be Andrastian elves and humans (unless you remove the present population and refuse entry to the other city elves).

 

4. A Qunari lead Dales would provide the ability to train on mass the city elf population as farmers, tradesmen etc....I do not claim it would be a good thing, just that it is the only scenario for re-creating a Elven state in the Dales that wouldn't be a total (insert rude world here). 

 

5. A united force of Dalish Clans is feared by nobody, the Dalish just don't have the numbers to be more than a mild annoyance.