137 réponses à ce sujet

[NoRush20]

Well, I believe that most of these problems stem from the fact that Bioware couldn't commit to a full trilogy beforehand. Each game was basically made to stand on its own. "I hope they like ME1... oh wow, we did! Let's make ME2. Oh crap, maybe they won't like ME2... it's being hailed as a masterpiece? Let's make it a trilogy then!" 

 

The games themselves were still incredible, but the trilogy as a whole would have meshed much better if it could have been planned out all at once.

 

Nothing new here to really learn, and I have no doubt that what the OP wants (a fully fleshed, properly done series) will occur in the future. Video games are becoming more and more a stable medium, and just as book and movie series are able to be planned out ahead of time, games will get there eventually. Mass Effect was one of the closest things we've had to that, and in the future we'll get something better.

 

Despite that, I still loved these games, and the series as a whole. ME was one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had, period. While it's not perfect, I see no reason to harp on the negative points. I bet in 20 years, just as what happens with movies, someone will say "hey, let's remake the Mass Effect trilogy" and we'll end up being able to play through the whole thing again but with life-like graphics, plot holes and inconsistencies smoothed out, and an ending that leaves the player more satisfied.

 

Until then, I'll still play these games through every so often, whenever I want to re-immerse myself into the beautiful universe of Mass Effect.

[KaiserShep]

Wait, I thought Mass Effect was intended to be a trilogy since the very beginning. I mean, ME1 has that little nagging sequel hook at the end that pretty much tells you that there's going to be more.

[SporkFu]

The data is a proof of Collectors existing, information on their technology and physiology. It doesn't clear Shepard's name. Let's assume however, that it is proven that the Collectors attacked Freedom's Progress. How Shepard is going to prove that it was not he who tipped them off? The evidence suggests otherwise (Udina quote, couldn't resist ) - he lands on the colony before any official investigators, he fights colony's security mechs, he was there as a Cerberus agent. Too many coincidences.

Remember what Ash said on Horizon? "What if they're behind it? What if they're the ones working with the Collectors?" (which is actually proven true, since it's TIM who gets them on Horizon in the first place) 

Another Ash line: "Alliance intel said Cerberus could be behind our missing colonies". Connect it with the evidence from Freedom's Progress - Shepard has something to do with it. They will hold him on trial, under arrest, until it'll be too late. And the Collectors will continue to abduct humans from the colonies, create their hurrdurr Reaper and have Reapers just bomb Earth from orbit without bothering to harvest

All circumstantial. There is no direct evidence from Freedom's Progress that suggests shep was personally responsible for anything that happened there. Now, if Veetor, as the "traumatized dock-worker" had said, "He did it. I was there. I saw him do it." Then yeah, okay, they might have reason to, at most, investigate further, and anyone who really wanted to push shep's alleged guilt would have a tough time convincing the council to do that much.  

 

The burden of proof for shep's innocence/guilt doesn't rest with him. He doesn't have to prove anything to the council. Shep would take a page from Saren's playbook and say, "You think I'm behind this? Come arrest me when you prove it. I'll go save the human colonies in the meantime. Buh-bye." 

 

Besides, it wasn't much later that Farris Fields (spelling?) was attacked, and the Alliance would have the testimony of one of their own soldiers, one Lt. Steve Cortez, that the collectors were responsible for it; not Cerberus, and certainly not shep. If, as you say, shep had been arrested -- which, come on. I mean, really? -- for allegedly working for a terrorist organization that could be responsible for the attacks on human colonies, then Cortez is his get outta jail free card. 

 

As for the 'mechs. Shep, Miranda, and Jacob destroyed them in self-defense, after the 'mechs attacked because Veetor re-programmed them first. At worst, I could see shep being sent a bill from the colony's financial backers for destruction of property. Actually, TIM would get that bill, not shep.

 

Come to think of it, Veetor would get that bill.

[KaiserShep]

"Maybe they all left because a crazy quarian started hijacking their mechs."

 

"Spirits! It's just so crazy it might be true! Lousy suit rats."

[Iakus]

The Collectors though were never a threat, they could attack the colonies sure, but they could never mount any kind of real assault on the interior worlds. Also considering Shepard was the one who enabled TIM to go and get himself Indoctrinated which almost foiled the entire war effort it probably would have been better if Shepard just stayed dead.

But...but...THEY WERE GOING TO HIT EARTH!!!

 

And THEY CAN'T BE BEATEN CONVENTIONALLY!!!  Or something.

 

[wolfhowwl]

Wait, I thought Mass Effect was intended to be a trilogy since the very beginning. I mean, ME1 has that little nagging sequel hook at the end that pretty much tells you that there's going to be more.

 

Yes. They always intended to make three games.

[Vazgen]

All circumstantial. There is no direct evidence from Freedom's Progress that suggests shep was personally responsible for anything that happened there. Now, if Veetor, as the "traumatized dock-worker" had said, "He did it. I was there. I saw him do it." Then yeah, okay, they might have reason to, at most, investigate further, and anyone who really wanted to push shep's alleged guilt would have a tough time convincing the council to do that much.  

 

The burden of proof for shep's innocence/guilt doesn't rest with him. He doesn't have to prove anything to the council. Shep would take a page from Saren's playbook and say, "You think I'm behind this? Come arrest me when you prove it. I'll go save the human colonies in the meantime. Buh-bye." 

 

Besides, it wasn't much later that Farris Fields (spelling?) was attacked, and the Alliance would have the testimony of one of their own soldiers, one Lt. Steve Cortez, that the collectors were responsible for it; not Cerberus, and certainly not shep. If, as you say, shep had been arrested -- which, come on. I mean, really? -- for allegedly working for a terrorist organization that could be responsible for the attacks on human colonies, then Cortez is his get outta jail free card. 

 

As for the 'mechs. Shep, Miranda, and Jacob destroyed them in self-defense, after the 'mechs attacked because Veetor re-programmed them first. At worst, I could see shep being sent a bill from the colony's financial backers for destruction of property. Actually, TIM would get that bill, not shep.

 

Come to think of it, Veetor would get that bill.

Collectors may be abducting colonists, but who's to say Cerberus isn't behind the Collector attacks? For all Shepard and council know after Freedom's Progress it is possible. Cortez's evidence will prove nothing regarding Shepard's involvement in Freedom's Progress attack.

Next, Shepard is brought back from the dead by Cerberus who spend a ton of money to do that. Then, Shepard in a Cerberus shuttle arrives to Freedom's Progress before the Alliance. Video footage shows Shepard along with two Cerberus operatives fighting colony security drones. Drones are destroyed, no way to prove they were hacked. Shepard gets a new ship and comes to the Alliance claiming that Cerberus is bad and dumb to spend billions of credits on him and that ship.

What does the evidence show - Shepard worked with Cerberus for at least one mission. He got to the colony before the Alliance investigators, thus he somehow learned about the Collector attack earlier. He fights security mechs on the planet. He gets a ship after that mission.

Doesn't it sound suspicious to you?

 

He can't pull Saren card on them, he's no longer a Spectre. Death made sure of that. He has to prove his innocence to the Council for them to reinstate him as a Spectre and give him access to all the resources necessary for hunting Collectors across the galaxy

[SporkFu]

Collectors may be abducting colonists, but who's to say Cerberus isn't behind the Collector attacks? For all Shepard and council know after Freedom's Progress it is possible. Cortez's evidence will prove nothing regarding Shepard's involvement in Freedom's Progress attack.
Next, Shepard is brought back from the dead by Cerberus who spend a ton of money to do that. Then, Shepard in a Cerberus shuttle arrives to Freedom's Progress before the Alliance. Video footage shows Shepard along with two Cerberus operatives fighting colony security drones. Drones are destroyed, no way to prove they were hacked. Shepard gets a new ship and comes to the Alliance claiming that Cerberus is bad and dumb to spend billions of credits on him and that ship.
What does the evidence show - Shepard worked with Cerberus for at least one mission. He got to the colony before the Alliance investigators, thus he somehow learned about the Collector attack earlier. He fights security mechs on the planet. He gets a ship after that mission.
Doesn't it sound suspicious to you?

He can't pull Saren card on them, he's no longer a Spectre. Death made sure of that. He has to prove his innocence to the Council for them to reinstate him as a Spectre and give him access to all the resources necessary for hunting Collectors across the galaxy

What video surveillance footage shows Shep and crew killing 'mechs? Come to think of it, the only people who even knew shep was on Freedom's Progress are Tali and Veetor. Nobody is gonna believe a couple "suit-rats" even if Tali wanted to rat shep out, no pun intended.

[themikefest]

Collectors may be abducting colonists, but who's to say Cerberus isn't behind the Collector attacks? For all Shepard and council know after Freedom's Progress it is possible. Cortez's evidence will prove nothing regarding Shepard's involvement in Freedom's Progress attack.

Next, Shepard is brought back from the dead by Cerberus who spend a ton of money to do that. Then, Shepard in a Cerberus shuttle arrives to Freedom's Progress before the Alliance. Video footage shows Shepard along with two Cerberus operatives fighting colony security drones. Drones are destroyed, no way to prove they were hacked. Shepard gets a new ship and comes to the Alliance claiming that Cerberus is bad and dumb to spend billions of credits on him and that ship.

What does the evidence show - Shepard worked with Cerberus for at least one mission. He got to the colony before the Alliance investigators, thus he somehow learned about the Collector attack earlier. He fights security mechs on the planet. He gets a ship after that mission.

Doesn't it sound suspicious to you?

 

He can't pull Saren card on them, he's no longer a Spectre. Death made sure of that. He has to prove his innocence to the Council for them to reinstate him as a Spectre and give him access to all the resources necessary for hunting Collectors across the galaxy

Wouldn't that video show the Quarians fighting the mechs as well?

[Vazgen]

What video surveillance footage shows Shep and crew killing 'mechs? Come to think of it, the only people who even knew shep was on Freedom's Progress are Tali and Veetor. Nobody is gonna believe a couple "suit-rats" even if Tali wanted to rat shep out, no pun intended.

 

Wouldn't that video show the Quarians fighting the mechs as well?

Footage is edited and leaked by Cerberus. Miranda grabs it and sends to TIM. Or she can send out a VI to make that footage, it's what they do during Citadel coup to montage the footage of Shepard killing the councilor (Bailey says it). The only section where you fight "alongside" quarians is the last YMIR mech fight. Footage of Shepard killing off Loki and Fenris mechs along with Assault and Rocket drones should be enough. 

[SporkFu]

Footage is edited and leaked by Cerberus. Miranda grabs it and sends to TIM. Or she can send out a VI to make that footage, it's what they do during Citadel coup to montage the footage of Shepard killing the councilor (Bailey says it). The only section where you fight "alongside" quarians is the last YMIR mech fight. Footage of Shepard killing off Loki and Fenris mechs along with Assault and Rocket drones should be enough.

The council is going to accept footage from Cerberus that is intended to link Shepard and cerberus to the collectors?

[Vazgen]

The council is going to accept footage from Cerberus that is intended to link Shepard and cerberus to the collectors?

Come on, they don't just send it to them. A carefully orchestrated timely "leak"

[SporkFu]

Come on, they don't just send it to them. A carefully orchestrated timely "leak"

That the council will just accept on faith?

[Vazgen]

That the council will just accept on faith?

And why not if their own agents discover it?

[SporkFu]

And why not if their own agents discover it?

You've really got it in for this mech-killer shep haven't you?

[Vazgen]

You've really got it in for this mech-killer shep haven't you?

I'm just saying that it's not that easy. You're dead for two years, Cerberus spends a ton of money to get you back, gives you a ship and asks to basically do your job. They would not waste that much money if they weren't sure that it's going to pay off. I think Freedom's Progress is a nice way to gain an upper hand in dealings with Shepard.

[SporkFu]

I'm just saying that it's not that easy. You're dead for two years, Cerberus spends a ton of money to get you back, gives you a ship and asks to basically do your job. They would not waste that much money if they weren't sure that it's going to pay off. I think Freedom's Progress is a nice way to gain an upper hand in dealings with Shepard.

So you've got Cerberus manufacturing evidence of shep killing 'mechs on a human colony out in the terminus systems, in order to prove Shep's ties to a human-centric terrorist organization that's abducting humans by the thousands on behalf of the collectors, after shep voluntarily returns to the citadel and says, "yeah they spent billions to bring me back from the dead and gave me this awesome new Normandy, which I stole because I didn't want to work for a a terrorist organization. Oh and I may have, umm, killed a couple mechs."
Councilors: *gasp*

[Vazgen]

So you've got Cerberus manufacturing evidence of shep killing 'mechs on a human colony out in the terminus systems, in order to prove Shep's ties to a human-centric terrorist organization that's abducting humans by the thousands on behalf of the collectors, after shep voluntarily returns to the citadel and says, "yeah they spent billions to bring me back from the dead and gave me this awesome new Normandy, which I stole because I didn't want to work for a a terrorist organization. Oh and I may have, umm, killed a couple mechs."
Councilors: *gasp*

The mechs themselves are not important. What's important is that Shepard fights the forces that are supposed to protect the colony. It looks quite like an attack on the colony.
Also, if someone would say something along those lines to me I would certainly not trust him.

[SporkFu]

The mechs themselves are not important. What's important is that Shepard fights the forces that are supposed to protect the colony. It looks quite like an attack on the colony.
Also, if someone would say something along those lines to me I would certainly not trust him.

Maybe if I had no prior dealings with that person, but this is shep we're talking about, savior of the citadel, confirmed to be who he is by DNA scan as soon as he arrived on the citadel. Maybe I still wouldn't trust him immediately, but I'd be more receptive to what he has to say.

[Vazgen]

Maybe if I had no prior dealings with that person, but this is shep we're talking about, savior of the citadel, confirmed to be who he is by DNA scan as soon as he arrived on the citadel. Maybe I still wouldn't trust him immediately, but I'd be more receptive to what he has to say.

"Ah, yes, the Collectors"

[Fixers0]

Quite frankly, when one has to use his imagination to invent parts of the narrative in order to defend certain piece of writing it useally means it cannot hold it's own.

[Vazgen]

Quite frankly, when one has to use his imagination to invent parts of the narrative in order to defend certain piece of writing it useally means it cannot hold it's own.

Or it may simply not be in-your-face. It's quite logical to think that an organization that spends millions to get one soldier back will make sure that this soldier will do what they need. Shepard plays along without an explanation in the game. It may sound unexplained or out of character for some but I would've done the same thing. 

[Paridave]

I spent the better part of September playing all 3 games back to back which, while being a lot of fun, was quite eye opening.  ME1 was Bioware and Microsoft and is a pretty much a stand alone game.  ME2 & ME3 are Bioware and EA and everything changes.  ME2 is basically a reboot of ME1 right from the beginning.  In ME2 Shepard builds a team and goes on a "suicide mission" which everybody playing the game knows is not a "suicide mission."  I like ME2, it's good as long as you don't think about ME1.  Then comes ME3 with its ENDING.  Playing them back to back it seems obvious that ENDING was always meant to be.  Instead of sitting down and writing a game which takes the player to that ENDING, Bioware and EA chose to write a reunion game with a flawed ending.  When I first played ME3 in 2012 I thought all of the cameo moments were kind of neat.  Playing it in 2014 it seems as though the missions were written just so team members from ME2 could put in an appearance.  You know, like "let's have Shepard save a school of kids so he can meet up with Jack."  Holy crap, she not only shows as a hot and sexy teacher, she hangs around Purgatory waiting for Shepard to sleep with her.  If they didn't die in ME2, they show up in ME3.  Instead of writing a story which progressed from point A to point B to point C, they gave us a mission where Shamara shows up to save her bad girl daughters, or at least one of them.  Then they tacked a very long ending which doesn't make sense.  Because it didn't fit they were forced to give the world free DLC which, as Paul Tasi writing in Forbes Magazine stated, was "too little, too late."  ME3 needed more missions ending in failure for that ENDING to make sense, and, unfortunately, what they gave us was old home week.

[Khemikael]

[...]

 

The other concept alluded to is that strange things are occurring as a result of Dark Energy influence. Now any physicist would tell you the effects don’t make any sense but I don’t think Bioware’s writers ever consulted a scientist on anything they put in their games. As we now know this was supposed to be the hook for the original purpose of the Reapers: to build an armada of Reapers, each imbued with the very nature of the species they are created from (being cyborgs now, apparently), and to combine their intellect and ability to find a way to literally bend the universe to their will and stop Dark Energy from causing its heat death. Apparently biotics speed up the process of heat death although it doesn’t really make sense how they cause Universal Dark energy to increase – that’s not a well explained point. Regardless, the final dilemma for Shepard at the end of ME3 was supposed to be either Shepard destroys the Reapers and risks the universe being doomed to heat death, or let the Reapers carry out their plan, dooming you and everyone you know but perhaps ultimately saving the universe. Since these hypothetical events would happen so far in the future and the Reapers are known to trick people, it is entirely up to the player whether they believe the Reapers are telling the truth.

 

This idea was ditched. Why I have no idea. [...]

 

First of all, dark energy in real life is (almost) nothing more than theory. It may not exist at all. We ‘re just using this word to explain something we don’t actually understand. Asking Bioware to be accurate about something as debatable and complex as dark energy is stupid. The main purpose of Mass Effect is entertainment, it is not a documentary. Look at Gravity, it’s a nice movie with a beautifull picture but it also has a lot of scientific incoherences. Still, some astronauts love it. Long story short : Suspension of disbelief.

 

Secondly, I think I know why this ending was ditched. The  « dilemma » is either let everyone die or kill the reapers. This is not a dilemma. No one would ever allow the reapers to continue the harvest. This is even worse than refusal. Everything Shepard did in 3 games would be flush down the toilet. You can be sure that everyone would choose to destroy the reapers even if it led to the annihilation of the universe milions years later. This makeshift ending is absolutely not a choice.

Trying to rewrite ME3 ending is a waste of time, I'd like to quote a famous scientist :

The good thing about science ME3 ending is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it.

 

[ImaginaryMatter]

Or it may simply not be in-your-face. It's quite logical to think that an organization that spends millions to get one soldier back will make sure that this soldier will do what they need. Shepard plays along without an explanation in the game. It may sound unexplained or out of character for some but I would've done the same thing. 

 

It is illogical. This was the organization that fed colonists to thresher maws to test the scientific effects of feeding colonists to thresher maws and has continuously displayed a knack for not only being untrustworthy but highly incompetent and short sighted as well. I think it means a lot that Shepard can never seriously bring up anything that happened in the first game and TIM never bothers defending his actions.