124 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyr8]

If I wasn't such a fan of Bioware's lore and characters, I would have cancelled my preorder late last month. In fact, it's up in the air if I will just go ahead and cancel it and just read the inevitable wiki for ending spoilers or watch a walkthrough on Youtube. For the past month, I've been really disappointed in everything I've seen of the game, from the disorganized and button mash-y combat (and too many spell effects!) to the no healing/regenerating thing. I also don't like how unfair it makes everything seem. In all the videos I've seen (including the one the devs did), people either get incapacitated or have their life bars severely depleted. It looks discouraging, to say the least.

 

What really has me to the point of cancelling is the fact that not only did they limit the abilities on the PC version to 8 for the multiplayer, but they did it so that casual players can use a controller on the PC. So it's actually a combination of both: they want the use of the controller and they want you to be able to play without pausing (for multiplayer).

 

If you look at every bit of media released, you will find that the tactical functionality is rarely used. Gameplay has been made around that fact, since multiplayer is realtime and you can't pause. You can't pause and strategize in multiplayer, so they had to streamline the gameplay to only allow you to have 8 abilities at one time (4 primary, with 4 secondary accessible by pulling the left trigger). So it's a combination of wanting the casual player to be able to play without pausing and allowing the casual player to use a controller. Maybe a good deal from a marketing point of view, but a very disappointing aspect for a big fan of the games.

 

It's all very disappointing to me and it is pretty much the icing on the crap cake of news/what I've seen in the past few days. I am extremely disappointed in how things have gone with this game, and while I'm still a fan of the series, it seems that I'm more a fan of the lore than the games itself now. I certainly was a die hard fan, but now I know to be skeptical.

[Kantr]

A lot of the videos have tactical view in them. See numerous (some bad) gameplay videos.

[Shahadem]

The only thing I can't get over is the lack of autohealing after battle, the lack of healing spells and the overreliance on only having real healing from chemicals instead of magic which makes no sense. Chemicals would not heal you, they'd only make it easier for your body to heal itself. It is only magic that would be capable of directly healing your character.

 

The ability limitation/pruning really doesn't ruffly my feathers that much or even at all.

[raging_monkey]

I am also unhappy atm(consoler by the way) and feel like this game is geared toward new fans that have little to no connection to the series. And while im a loyal customer of bioware this may be the last BW title i will buy because of the current marketing and the way i feel like my loyalty has been rewarded

(This is solely my opinion and do not seek a arguement)

[BadgerladDK]

Not buying the premise that the 8 abilities are there for controller support. You could access all abilities through the wheel on a controller in previous games.

 

Your other points are mainly a matter of preference, personally I think DA:O's combat was tedious, DA2's was too "action-y), this looks like a good compromise. 

[Cyonan]

Doesn't the MP only have 4 active abilities at once?

[Cyr8]

I didn't even touch on the fact that you can't even upgrade your own stats by youself. It's handled by upgrading your attributes and equiping armor. That sucks. They are casualing up gameplay, and that's what is pissing me off.

[bluebullets]

I am also unhappy atm(consoler by the way) and feel like this game is geared toward new fans that have little to no connection to the series. And while im a loyal customer of bioware this may be the last BW title i will buy because of the current marketing and the way i feel like my loyalty has been rewarded

(This is solely my opinion and do not seek a arguement)

Ditto. Companies need to start catering to fans rather than just noobs. Dragon age was an unknown ip and it got goty and blew up. It proves that it was what fans wanted. Why ruin it like da2by trying to change who you cater to. Its absolutely stupid.

[Brogan]

...If you look at every bit of media released, you will find that the tactical functionality is rarely used. Gameplay has been made around that fact...

 

Nope, not worried about this at all and neither should you be.  You need to pay attention to what you're seeing/reading. 

 

What UI has every gameplay video used before today?  And what UI was debuted today, which if you looked closely contained multiple instances of pausing and strategy?  Take another look.

 

David Gaider was on here a few weeks ago and talked about how this combat system was NOT DA:O or DA2; that they had built it from the ground up with a new, specific focus in mind.

 

You need to quit reading what everyone is speculating about and listen to the things the Devs here have said.

[ShaggyWolf]

There's been quite a few games recently- even PC only ones- that have adopted the design concept of limited toolbars. It's not to make the game easier to play with controllers, (that's a side benefit of the choice) but the main reason is to force the player to focus their ability choices and to specialize their combat style. I can almost guarantee that a player who doesn't do that with their characters is going to have a very hard time playing the game, so it makes sense to reinforce the desired behavior from a design standpoint. Limited action bar is one way of doing that.

 

Next: You pointed out that a lot of these casual action-mode-only players are getting served in the game's encounters, even on lower difficulties. I interpret that as meaning that more hardcore players who extensively leverage the game's tactical controls will be rewarded. And of course the tactical view is going unused in a lot of the gameplay videos, especially recent ones. Most of those people are totally unfamiliar with Dragon Age and probably don't even know how to switch to or use tactical controls. If that is untrue in your case, I would count on your gameplay experience being generally more successful.

 

And multiplayer wouldn't influence design decisions about the tactical mode, since you personally only control one character in multiplayer. If each player controlled a squad then the lack of pause and play probably would've influenced the single player design, but that is not the case.

 

I can assure you that these design choices were not strictly made to accomodate controllers, because they've never done that before in the past. DA:O and DA2 both favored the PC player because they had way more active action bar slots than console players had. The only reason they would bother deviating from that is if they thought the limited action bar would be more conductive to the gameplay for some reason, and as I pointed out above, I belive it does.

[Avaflame]

I am so sick of people definitively stating what BioWare makes their decisions based on, especially when they make NO SENSE.

[Rawgrim]

Its made with the xbox + ps controllers in mind. Simple as that. Nothing to do with multiplayer.

[Heimdall]

OP, First Paragraph: So... your unhappy that they've made the game less forgiving and more difficult? Wow, usually people complain the opposite. You can always lower the difficulty.

I don't understand why they made they change, but I don't buy that having eight abilities available is purely for controller support. I never had any problem bringing up the wheel on my console.

Actually, Jesse Cox made great use of the tactical view in his gameplay video, and Mark and Mike did in their recent stream. I see no grounds for this impression. Yes, it is possible to play the game without pausing, but that doesn't make pausing it to use the tactical view less viable. Not sure what you have against "casuals" being able to play they want, especially when there's nothing stopping you from using the tactical view. The idea that the eight ability limit exists for multiplayer is silly. ME3 MP had no pausing and only a few abilities available, that didn't change the nature of pausing gameplay in singleplayer. I suspect there's more to Bioware's reasoning than that.

[Avaflame]

OP, First Paragraph: So... your unhappy that they've made the game less forgiving and more difficult? Wow, usually people complain the opposite. You can always lower the difficulty.

I don't understand why they made they change, but I don't buy that having eight abilities available is purely for controller support. I never had any problem bringing up the wheel on my console.

Actually, Jesse Cox made great use of the tactical view in his gameplay video, and Mark and Mike did in their recent stream. I see no grounds for this impression. Yes, it is possible to play the game without pausing, but that doesn't make pausing it to use the tactical view less viable. Not sure what you have against "casuals" being able to play they want, especially when there's nothing stopping you from using the tactical view. The idea that the eight ability limit exists for multiplayer is silly. ME3 MP had no pausing and only a few abilities available, that didn't change the nature of pausing gameplay in singleplayer. I suspect there's more to Bioware's reasoning than that.

Why is this so hard to understand, honestly? I'm not happy with the eight ability restrictions either, but that doesn't mean I'm going to make a thread about how it's because they took out healing spells or some such nonsense.

[raging_monkey]

Ditto. Companies need to start catering to fans rather than just noobs. Dragon age was an unknown ip and it got goty and blew up. It proves that it was what fans wanted. Why ruin it like da2by trying to change who you cater to. Its absolutely stupid.

didnt mind da2 (execpt the MT portrayal). I welcome new fans but they dont deserve any form of preferenrial treatment. If anything they get the same experiance and if they feel less informed... go buy the other ones. We were here first.

Again this is solely my opinion and seek no arguement

[Muspade]

 the lack of healing spells...

For the thousands time, there is a healing spell based on "Focus".

It is only magic that would be capable of directly healing your character.

Stop head-cannoning stuff.

[coldflame]

This is what we've been saying ever since the number of action slot has been disclosed.

[coldflame]

 

For the thousands time, there is a healing spell based on "Focus".
 

 

Stop head-cannoning stuff.

 

 

You'll need to say that a thousand times more...

[Muspade]

You'll need to say that a thousand times more...

 

<Insert echoing noise here.>

[Heimdall]

Why is this so hard to understand, honestly? I'm not happy with the eight ability restrictions either, but that doesn't mean I'm going to make a thread about how it's because they took out healing spells or some such nonsense.

I'm partial to Shaggywolf's idea that it's to force the player to specialize their combat style, actually now that I read it. I mean, specialization forces the player to make greater use of the whole party in battle to function under evolving circumstances.

I'm actually a little glad about the lack of easy mage healing, it means I won't feel compelled to have Wynne/Anders around if I'm not playing a spirit healer and want to survive doing anything difficult.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm partial to Shaggywolf's idea that it's to force the player to specialize their combat style

If that were the case, then they wouldn't need to enforce class distinctions. The circumstances of the UI would do that already.

[funmachine]

 In all the videos I've seen (including the one the devs did), people either get incapacitated or have their life bars severely depleted. 

 

Something to keep in mind about this: When the devs were playing, they were also talking (a lot) about what was going on and the game in general. Not good if you're supposed to be focusing on a fight. The other people who we got gameplay videos from were clearly pretty clueless about what they were doing, and unfamiliar with DA to begin with. What does that mean? If you're a bit schooled in the DA ways, you'll probably have an easier time not getting hurt/killed in the exact same situation you've seen in those videos. Have some faith in your own gaming capabilities

[Wulfram]

 

For the thousands time, there is a healing spell based on "Focus".
 

 

Stop head-cannoning stuff.

 

 

The game can be considered to lack healing spells, even if it has one, limited one.  Lack can mean possessing an insufficient amount of something, as well as being wholly without something

[ShaggyWolf]

I'm partial to Shaggywolf's idea that it's to force the player to specialize their combat style, actually now that I read it. I mean, specialization forces the player to make greater use of the whole party in battle to function under evolving circumstances.
 

 

It also makes it more viable to bring duplicate character types in your group. In the past, you wouldn't really want to take a 2h Warrior Hawke and a 2h Warrior Fenris since so many of their abilities would end up overlapping. They wouldn't synergize at all. Now, you could concievably group a 2h Warrior Inquisitor with a 2h Warrior Iron Bull, because they'll likely have less total abilities than previous installments, and the limited action bar seriously discourages you from overlapping the abilities they *do* have.

[raging_monkey]

Something to keep in mind about this: When the devs were playing, they were also talking (a lot) about what was going on and the game in general. Not good if you're supposed to be focusing on a fight. The other people who we got gameplay videos from were clearly pretty clueless about what they were doing, and unfamiliar with DA to begin with. What does that mean? If you're a bit schooled in the DA ways, you'll probably have an easier time not getting hurt/killed in the exact same situation you've seen in those videos. Have some faith in your own gaming capabilities

idk about others but its pretty easy to talk and focus on a fight. I do it all the time