1390 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

Well, I love a challenge as much as anyone although I'm not fond of BioWare's idea on how to make a game more fun is through restricting more and more content as opposed to try and add or slightly improve upon it. The Rogue & Warrior thing, for instance, being forced to either carry a shield or dual wield? Hmm..

But as we've established BioWare has many inovative ideas of what the word fun means. 

 

We'll see how it goes with Inquisition. Grind is always most tedious and awful part about any RPG.

The thing is limited healing is something that was in crpgs back then, even PoE is doing a limited healing system (and unlike here, hardly anyone is crying about it, least in the beta thread, ideas on how to make it better yeah, not nowhere near what is going on in this site regarding the health system for DAI)

 

Things like the warrior and rogue are not for a challenge, that's a design choice(a choice though I still don't agree with) Limited healing though is a fantastic idea .

[Zu Long]

The thing is this: Recent rpgs tend to be way easier and simplified than older games. And what is Normal difficulty on games now, used to be the super easy difficulty 10 years ago. I think that is the core of it. Games basically spoonfeeds you what to do at all times, even if you want it or not.

 

As someone who grew up on Nintendo Hard (beat TMNT, FINALLY, at 11 years old)- Screw that noise. Modern games are VASTLY more fun to play for me. I'm looking for relaxation and entertainment, not soul-crushing difficulty.

[Ieldra]

Again if the game is too hard, play on easy. If your only playing for the story then difficulty should not mean anything to you.

Absolutely this. I'll have no problem switching to Easy should it turn out it's more fun that way for me. I don't really expect I'll need to though, except maybe in boss fights. In fact, apart from some silly over-the-top animations inherited from DA2 combat looks rather interesting to me, quite probably more so than in DAO (Can't compare with DA2 since n times as interesting as DA2 would still result in zero).

[Rawgrim]

As someone who grew up on Nintendo Hard (beat TMNT, FINALLY, at 11 years old)- Screw that noise. Modern games are VASTLY more fun to play for me. I'm looking for relaxation and entertainment, not soul-crushing difficulty.

 

That is what Easy difficulty is for. You have an option for it. the stuff I mentioned doesn't. Combat will be harder on Hard, sure. But the spoonfeeding can't be switched off.

[TheChris92]

Indeed, the problem is not the fact that they are making it "harder". The fact is, Bioware's IDEA of "innovation" and "challenge" could use refinement, imo. There are vastly superior ways to make things differently without always taking away player's choices.

It's interesting you have Nihilus as your avi -- I'm actually gonna take KOTOR 2 as an example. I remember playing it on hard and at that point the game expects you to take your attribute and progression building very seriously, not to mention the party building, you still have the healing and everything you had from easy mode. But the game would require more out of you, more attention and you'd most likely find yourself not putting that many points into persuasion or charisma in fear of falling behind in combat by the time you reach places like Korriban or Onderon. 

Heck, even on normal it could be a bit challenging when you got to the underground base on Telos before reaching the academy, because the enemy emplacements were dangerous and you only had Bao-Dur, Atton and Kreia with you.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that I loved the kind of challenge that was provided in that game.

[TheRevanchist]

The thing is limited healing is something that was in crpgs back then, even PoE is doing a limited healing system (and unlike here, hardly anyone is crying about it, least in the beta thread, ideas on how to make it better yeah, not nowhere near what is going on in this site regarding the health system for DAI)

 

Things like the warrior and rogue are not for a challenge, that's a design choice(a choice though I still don't agree with) Limited healing though is a fantastic idea .

 

"Older games had it, so that totally justifies it being in this game! Also this other game that does not have a history of being accommodating does it and no one is complaining! you guys are just babies!" 

[sylvanaerie]

This is why I've decided to adopt a "wait and see" attitude.  It may prove Easy is TOO easy.  It may be just my speed.  I don't know yet until I actually play the game myself.  My learning curve usually doesn't go beyond Normal even when I am used to combat in a game, and i suspect it's going to be the same with this one.

[TheRevanchist]

It's interesting you have Nihilus as your avi -- I'm actually gonna take KOTOR 2 as an example. I remember playing it on hard and at that point the game expects you to take your attribute and progression building very seriously, not to mention the party building, you still have the healing and everything you had from easy mode. But the game would require more out of you, more attention and you'd most likely find yourself not putting that many points into persuasion or charisma in fear of falling behind in combat by the time you reach places like Korriban or Onderon. 

Heck, even on normal it could be a bit challenging when you got to the underground base on Telos before reaching the academy, because the enemy emplacements were dangerous and you only had Bao-Dur, Atton and Kreia with you.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that I loved the kind of challenge that was provided in that game.

 

KOTOR 2 was NOT a Bioware game, my point remains...

[Rawgrim]

"Older games had it, so that totally justifies it being in this game! Also this other game that does not have a history of being accommodating does it and no one is complaining! you guys are just babies!" 

 

Moving away from the topic of the discussion and attacking the opposition's person = losing a discussion. You have run out of counter arguments and have turned to the "You are dumb" argument children use.

[TheRevanchist]

Moving away from the topic of the discussion and attacking the opposition's person = losing a discussion. You have run out of counter arguments and have turned to the "You are dumb" argument children use.

 

I think they are the one with no argument, they are using examples that have nothing to do with this game, or this series, to justify their position.

[cjones91]

At least they're not likely to act like their want is better than that of others. Haveta say I'm more inclined to listen to inclusive whinging than I am listening to elitist, circle-jerk rhetoric.

 

I find it funny how you call people who want challenge in their games elitist.

[Rawgrim]

I think they are the one with no argument, they are using examples that have nothing to do with this game, or this series, to justify their position.

 

They are using those examples to get points across...

[Mr.House]

I think they are the one with no argument, they are using examples that have nothing to do with this game, or this series, to justify their position.

I'm using examples in the genre, including games made by said company. Where's your argument eh?

[TheChris92]

KOTOR 2 was NOT a Bioware game, my point remains...

No, it's not a BioWare game, ofc. But it's a sequel to a BioWare game, where the mechanics are similar. It's also a western RPG so it was relevant enough to talk about. Anyway, I'm obviously not arguing against you I was just making my own point about the concept of providing challenge in an RPG.

[Rawgrim]

 

I find it funny how you call people who want challenge in their games elitist.

 

Its not exactly a challenge either. Just a "toggle" for the excessive spoonfeeding and simplifications. An option, really.

[cjones91]

As someone who grew up on Nintendo Hard (beat TMNT, FINALLY, at 11 years old)- Screw that noise. Modern games are VASTLY more fun to play for me. I'm looking for relaxation and entertainment, not soul-crushing difficulty.

Many people do on the other hand.

[Heimdall]

I wasn't acting that way at all.
 
Here is one example. I talk to George (in game) and he tells me during a conversaton that Barry has some information for me, and that he is waiting for me in his room at the Sad Donkey Hotell. There. I have the information I need. Now the game adds stuff in moy journal like "Go to the hotell and head to the third floor - room 302. Open the door and walk over to Barry and ask him about the information he has". In addition to this the came stuffs a spotlight in my face on the compass marker, so I can't miss it. And it even stuffs a huge marker for me on the map. Usually these features we can't even switch off - on any difficulty. Add forced turorials into the mix as well.
 
How helpless to developers think player's are these days? Its almost insulting. An most of the time they even compare their new game to some challenging older game, and claims their new game is a huge challenge.

Well, I always found journal entries most useful for when I come back to the game after a lengthy break and have forgotten what precisely I was doing. When I reload a game I last played a month ago, I need that record in place of the NPC's quest description I probably can't access anymore.

I can't fault the developers for wanting to make games more accessible for people that have neither the time nor the desire to wander around following an NPC's general directions and hoping to stumble upon the desired location/character in a timely manner before having to stop playing. Maybe your justified in being frustrated by the inability to turn these things off, but to think of these things as an insult to player intelligence is silly.

[Zu Long]

That is what Easy difficulty is for. You have an option for it. the stuff I mentioned doesn't. Combat will be harder on Hard, sure. But the spoonfeeding can't be switched off.

 

And you have Nightmare mode. Plenty of other things I don't like about the game also can't be turned off. Maybe you miss the days of sitting with a notebook full of passwords and having to draw maps of dungeons to find your way around or remind you which door the eagle key opens from three maps ago. I really don't miss any of that. Fortunately, there are a subset of games that do cater to those that demand a hardcore experience, but this is not one of them.

[Fredward]

I find it funny how you call people who want challenge in their games elitist.

 

I don't, I consider this elitist:

 

 

Git gud or die tryin.

 

 

 

You casuals make me laugh.

[TheRevanchist]

I'm using examples in the genre, including games made by said company. Where's your argument eh?

 

My points have been made, by myself and others, you dismiss them with "use easy and stop bitching" as if that is all there is to the discussion.

[cjones91]

I think they are the one with no argument, they are using examples that have nothing to do with this game, or this series, to justify their position.

Ad Hominem.

 

Look it up because when you resort to calling people babies you're the one who has no argument.

[Mr.House]

You consider jokes being "elitist"? Wow....

 

Can't even make harmless jokes anymore without making people salty.

[Star fury]

At least they're not likely to act like their want is better than that of others. Haveta say I'm more inclined to listen to inclusive whinging than I am listening to elitist, circle-jerk rhetoric.

You see, this is a big big problem, you lot will incredibly quickly resort to aggressive name calling and straight insults - "whinging", "elitist, circle-jerk rhetoric". Casuals often are very angry, aggressive, bitter just look at your rhetoric. 

[Zu Long]

Its not exactly a challenge either. Just a "toggle" for the excessive spoonfeeding and simplifications. An option, really.

 

Oh hey, we're back to the old toggle request. Please get in the line behind the people who want toggles for gayness in the world, etc.

[cjones91]

I don't, I consider this elitist:

I believe House's post was supposed to be sarcastic but that's just me.