1390 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

Add less forced spoonfeeding to the game, and put some resources into a toggle or two then.

What level of alleged spoon feeding is appropriate isn't something many will agree on, I'd think. Most people don't seem to find forced tutorials objectionable as long as they aren't too obtrusive. And many like myself don't really have a problem with wading through them again when playing a new game.

[AlanC9]

They did. Someone removed the compass that tells you exactly where everything is within days. Thanks, modders.

 

Sure. I'd use that mod myself if I ever actually looked at the compass. I just thought it was silly to say that the compass "defeats exploration."

 

And as TheRevanchist points out below, you can remove the compass but not the map, since the radiant system would break without it. Well, I guess you can remove the map and then have no clue where someone just asked you to go, but....

[TheRevanchist]

Strange that they did it in days, no? Since this toggle is, according to people in here, extremely challenging to do.

 

Yes, they added an ability to remove that marker, but they did not replace it with Quest Directions in your Journal. So you have no clue what Hold "Timbermaw Cave" is located in. Because thats all they tell you to find, based on the concept of being designed around markers. 

[AlanC9]

@Bfler:
The stated reason for non-regenerating health, taking regular healing spells out of the game and limiting the number of potions is that the potentially unlimited hitpoints people were carrying about made it necessary for every fight to threaten you with a party wipe if it was to be interesting at all. Fights were also much harder to balance. I find this convincing. Now you can have, say, fights with low-level bandits be realistically easy for your epic hero and still mean something. It goes hand in hand with the unleveled world. I say it's an improvement, even though it might need some more balancing.

Right. Here's the post which Weekes linked to in his OP

[Rawgrim]

Sure. I'd use that mod myself if I ever actually looked at the compass. I just thought it was silly to say that the compass "defeats exploration."

 

It does when its forced onto you, and the devs tells us exploration IS a huge part of the game.

[DuckTheSecond]

Wow, I've been gone for nearly 2 months due to a busy schedule. All this news makes me happy, and reading how we'll have to manage our health with barriers and stuff only wetted my appetite more for this game

 

I'm not that worried about no common healing spells in the game, it should be interesting.

[Heimdall]

Strange that they did it in days, no? Since this toggle is, according to people in here, extremely challenging to do.

We're saying you shouldn't make presumptuous statements about what is and what is not easy in game development. As for Bethesda, I don't know if their system's the same as Inquisition's, but I will ask this, did they just turn it off or create a toggle? They couldn't possibly have been much testing in a few days, which tells me the change was probably either in development for longer than you think or they just don't care much about what bugs their modification might introduce.

[Heimdall]

It does when its forced onto you, and the devs tells us exploration IS a huge part of the game.

How so, I used the compass, that didn't stop me from exploring at all.

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm pretty sure it's still included under the umbrella of "any feature" that David sets up for the range of toggles covered. Your assumption of the ease with which this can be implemented is fine, but you might consider for a moment the possibility you are underestimating its difficulty. Again, my own assumption is that it would be a pain in the butt and require a bunch of testing, and that it therefore isn't worth it.

 

It's more the opportunity cost than the actual difficulty.  Work done on that is work not done on something else and unfortunate that something else was considered a higher priority.

[AlanC9]

Really this is the new standard operating procedure for games it seems. People had complaints about the MAKO, logical reaction? make improvements. Bioware's reaction? remove it entirely and don't bother. People had issues with the Mineral Scanning. logical reaction? make improvements. Bioware's reaction? -basically- remove it entirely and don't bother. Healing Spells, no one really complained about it, Bioware claims it was an issue. Logical reaction? rework Healing to be better. Biowares reaction? pretty much remove Healing entirely and don't bother.

I don't think "logical reaction" really works there. Even if something can be improved -- I'm not sure I see an alternative fix for the healing issue myself that wouldn't have bad side-effects -- it does not therefore follow that the improvement is worth the cost.

[finc.loki]

You should stick to DAO.

Or you should realize dark souls have no difficulty levels and basically no story, it is all about the challenge of game play which boil down to trial and error. Go into an area get killed by a spear out of no where, retry it and go to the left so the spear misses. Wow amazing.

 

This game and the previous ones in DA, have difficulty levels, how about YOU focus on your nightmare mode then, since you want a punishing challenge.

Normal should be normal. Easy should be for 7 year olds. Hard should be for intermediate.

 

The really silly part is that normal mode isn't really that hard in and of itself, it's the artificial layer of limited potions and no out of combat healing that makes it harder. Or rather a NUISANCE. It is not more of a 'challenge', it is more of a "when you take inevitable damage over time exploring and fighting, you have to run back to camp or fast travel to replenish potions". That is an extremely idiotic game play design.

 

It's the 2 step forward, 1 step back approach. Since at any time you CAN travel back by various means you always have access to UNLIMITED potions anyway. They just added an "annoyance element" to try and prevent people from doing so.

 

Wouldn't it be more rewarding to finding potions in loot, and then have TIMERS in combat on how many potions you can chug, thereby creating a strategy element to the combat and potions WITHOUT the annoyance factor.

 

So it's not about combat itself being all that hard, but that you run out of potions. I can guarantee you that you WILL take damage no matter how good you are, so when you run around and enjoying the game and exploring, fighting etc, your potion stash will dwindle down. Why on Earth is is clever or fun as a game mechanic to have to run/fast travel back from this exploration and then somehow find your way back to where you were. Running for minutes. 

 

Yet again it is a NUISANCE...

 

It is not the same as overcoming a challenging fight in Dark Souls. It is the fun part of walking back to a previou spot.

 

Will this ever sink into people's heads?

[Zu Long]

We're saying you shouldn't make presumptuous statements about what is and what is not easy in game development. As for Bethesda, I don't know if their system's the same as Inquisition's, but I will ask this, did they just turn it off or create a toggle? They couldn't possibly have been much testing in a few days, which tells me the change was probably either in development for longer than you think or they just don't care much about what bugs their modification might introduce.

 

Just to clarify, it wasn't Bethesda who introduced the Mod to turn off the compass, it was modders. Who, one might note, are not required to trek back through the game to make sure you can still find something after you've turned off the compass. Modders are allowed to change things with minimal testing or concern for making something in the game inaccessible, a luxury Bethesda and Bioware don't share.

[AlanC9]

It does when its forced onto you, and the devs tells us exploration IS a huge part of the game.

News to me. News to anyone playing one of those Bethesda games who didn't (or couldn't) mod your problem away. I don't mind that you're using a personal definition of "exploration," but don't pretend it's generally accepted.

[Zu Long]

It's more the opportunity cost than the actual difficulty.  Work done on that is work not done on something else and unfortunate that something else was considered a higher priority.

 

I figured. For myself, I am glad you guys spent your resources elsewhere, though others will, as always, disagree.

[metalfenix]

Yikes, didn't see the potions quantity limitation. Now this is getting scary, I see myself relying heavily on barriers.

[n7stormrunner]

Yikes, didn't see the potions quantity limitation. Now this is getting scary, I see myself relying heavily on barriers.

 

you and everyone else... I forsee it being used like bubble from ff12.

[Zu Long]

Or you should realize dark souls have no difficulty levels and basically no story, it is all about the challenge of game play which boil down to trial and error. Go into an area get killed by a spear out of no where, retry it and go to the left so the spear misses. Wow amazing.

 

This game and the previous ones in DA, have difficulty levels, how about YOU focus on your nightmare mode then, since you want a punishing challenge.

Normal should be normal. Easy should be for 7 year olds. Hard should be for intermediate.

 

The really silly part is that normal mode isn't really that hard in and of itself, it's the artificial layer of limited potions and no out of combat healing that makes it harder. Or rather a NUISANCE. It is not more of a 'challenge', it is more of a "when you take inevitable damage over time exploring and fighting, you have to run back to camp or fast travel to replenish potions". That is an extremely idiotic game play design.

 

It's the 2 step forward, 1 step back approach. Since at any time you CAN travel back by various means you always have access to UNLIMITED potions anyway. They just added an "annoyance element" to try and prevent people from doing so.

 

Wouldn't it be more rewarding to finding potions in loot, and then have TIMERS in combat on how many potions you can chug, thereby creating a strategy element to the combat and potions WITHOUT the annoyance factor.

 

So it's not about combat itself being all that hard, but that you run out of potions. I can guarantee you that you WILL take damage no matter how good you are, so when you run around and enjoying the game and exploring, fighting etc, your potion stash will dwindle down. Why on Earth is is clever or fun as a game mechanic to have to run/fast travel back from this exploration and then somehow find your way back to where you were. Running for minutes. 

 

Yet again it is a NUISANCE...

 

It is not the same as overcoming a challenging fight in Dark Souls. It is the fun part of walking back to a previou spot.

 

Will this ever sink into people's heads?

 

If one believe Weekes' post though, it's not that much of a nuisance on normal. Admittedly you don't have to believe him, but he HAS actually played the game, unlike all of us.

[Allan Schumacher]

It's the 2 step forward, 1 step back approach. Since at any time you CAN travel back by various means you always have access to UNLIMITED potions anyway. They just added an "annoyance element" to try and prevent people from doing so.

 

Part of the tricky balancing act.  I believe initially we had no form of fast travel nor unlimited potions.  But we balance the idea of making individual combat encounters more meaningful (without just throwing absurd amounts of hostiles at you) without outright punishing (or worse, blocking) a player from playing the game.

[Heimdall]

Just to clarify, it wasn't Bethesda who introduced the Mod to turn off the compass, it was modders. Who, one might note, are not required to trek back through the game to make sure you can still find something after you've turned off the compass. Modders are allowed to change things with minimal testing or concern for making something in the game inaccessible, a luxury Bethesda and Bioware don't share.

Ah, okay then.

[n7stormrunner]

If one believe Weekes' post though, it's not that much of a nuisance on normal. Admittedly you don't have to believe him, but he HAS actually played the game, unlike all of us.

 

 

problem isn't ever going to be most fights.. it the rare times you need it and it's not there thats the problem.

[Allan Schumacher]

I can guarantee you that you WILL take damage no matter how good you are

 

It's actually very possible to go through the fights without taking any tangible damage.

[Zu Long]

Part of the tricky balancing act.  I believe initially we had no form of fast travel nor unlimited potions.  But we balance the idea of making individual combat encounters more meaningful (without just throwing absurd amounts of hostiles at you) without outright punishing (or worse, blocking) a player from playing the game.

 

If I can ask a somewhat off-topic question, how are you still up at this hour when you guys appear to be a bunch of shambling zombies on the Twitch streams? I mean, I had the day off and took a six-hour nap this afternoon.

[Allan Schumacher]

If I can ask a somewhat off-topic question, how are you still up at this hour when you guys appear to be a bunch of shambling zombies on the Twitch streams? I mean, I had the day off and took a six-hour nap this afternoon.

 

Because I'm stupid (and don't have to work tomorrow yay).  This is 2:40 AM it's still early.  My sleep schedule is already exploded.  Mike and Mark are also both very sick (IIRC one or both actually missed some days of work).  I'm not.  I do have chocolate milk though and this stuff is hardcore narcotic for me... <.<

[finc.loki]

Has anyone thought of the possible exploit of using  3 mages in your party and a tank?

 

3 mages all with Barrier ability, wonder if that would equal a barrier up at almost any given time? Especially depending on cool down.

 

In between cool down the mages can still do a lot of damage and then every 20-24 seconds each tosses a 10 second barrier, and if that would be the case you could have 30 second barrier on 24 second cooldown in the alternating barrier from each mage.

 

Of course this is just pure speculation, but the point is people will ALWAYS find ways to min/max things and circumvent implemented restrictions. Such as the limited potions and now focus on "damage mitigation"..

 

Did I just break their game plan?

 

I guess their solution is that they FORCE you to have almost a one of each character to further the story at the detriment of choice for who you want in your party.

[Rawgrim]

News to me. News to anyone playing one of those Bethesda games who didn't (or couldn't) mod your problem away. I don't mind that you're using a personal definition of "exploration," but don't pretend it's generally accepted.

 

They fixed it in an official patch.