1390 réponses à ce sujet

[Ajna]

Thank you Patrick, this does make me feel much better.

All I need is a minstrel to follow me around, singing songs about my heroic cowardice...

[sylvanaerie]

I see the focus spell heal/revive being touted as the 'heal spell'.  Is focus even available outside of combat (IE will I be able to revive companions outside of battle just in case I don't get that ability off in time)?

Or am I just SOL for that area and have to backtrack to the last camp?

[n7stormrunner]

Has anyone thought of the possible exploit of using  3 mages in your party and a tank?

 

3 mages all with Barrier ability, wonder if that would equal a barrier up at almost any given time? Especially depending on cool down.

 

In between cool down the mages can still do a lot of damage and then every 20-24 seconds each tosses a 10 second barrier, and if that would be the case you could have 30 second barrier on 24 second cooldown in the alternating barrier from each mage.

 

Of course this is just pure speculation, but the point is people will ALWAYS find ways to min/max things and circumvent implemented restrictions. Such as the limited potions and now focus on "damage mitigation"..

 

Did I just break their game plan?

 

I guess their solution is that they FORCE you to have almost a one of each character to further the story at the detriment of choice for who you want in your party.

 

 

yes 3 seconds after they said it.

 

 

Thank you Patrick, this does make me feel much better.

All I need is a minstrel to follow me around, singing songs about my heroic cowardice...

 

 

no, no no. you call it a tactical thinking.

 

 

I see the focus spell heal/revive being touted as the 'heal spell'.  Is focus even available outside of combat (IE will I be able to revive companions outside of battle just in case I don't get that ability off in time)?

Or am I just SOL for that area and have to backtrack to the last camp?

 

 

if I remember right focus decreases if you're not fighting.. and out of combat you just revive like before.

[Zu Long]

problem isn't ever going to be most fights.. it the rare times you need it and it's not there thats the problem.

 

Weekes has beaten the entire game at least twice so far with the strategies he has outlined and reportedly has never had the problem you mention even once, even on dungeons that were high level. Again, he's one of the game's designers,but by his own admission he isn't a DA grand master. I'm curious to see how it works,since like some I was a little worried that part of the 200 hour claimed content time included running back to camp for potions every 10 minutes. Since Weekes says that isn't the case (and he clocked 80-90 hours on his two runs, non-completionist), I look forward to breaking out my thinking cap... or possibly turning it down to casual and waltzing through the game, which I totally did on DAO after my first run through.

[metalfenix]

Has anyone thought of the possible exploit of using  3 mages in your party and a tank?

 

3 mages all with Barrier ability, wonder if that would equal a barrier up at almost any given time? Especially depending on cool down.

 

In between cool down the mages can still do a lot of damage and then every 20-24 seconds each tosses a 10 second barrier, and if that would be the case you could have 30 second barrier on 24 second cooldown in the alternating barrier from each mage.

 

I like this plan. Having my Mage qunquisitor+Dorian+Solas+Iron Bull , clear most enemies on the dungeon, backtrack, get sera or varric, unlock chests, backtrack again and get the original team.

[Zu Long]

Because I'm stupid (and don't have to work tomorrow yay).  This is 2:40 AM it's still early.  My sleep schedule is already exploded.  Mike and Mark are also both very sick (IIRC one or both actually missed some days of work).  I'm not.  I do have chocolate milk though and this stuff is hardcore narcotic for me... <.<

 

Well, mad respect, dude. Thanks for working so hard on this game and THEN coming back to the boards to fight the good fight.

[finc.loki]

It's actually very possible to go through the fights without taking any tangible damage.

Is that on easy or normal? Also how tangible? I mean if you love to explore the world and run around and come across random enemies, wouldn't you over time take damage for each fight, even if tangible that it leaves you with limited potions available for when needed. Hence forcing you "out of the game" by making you go back to camp to replenish and then have to run or try to find your way back to where you were.

 

If you can fast travel back to camp at any time. Doesn't that essentially mean you have unlimited potions and health anyways. Just a tacked on nuisance of having to go back to camp?

 

I personally would find it more rewarding and less removal of immersion  dragging you out of what you are doing to do replenish back at camp, to have potions in loot and then place the limit in how many you can use during each 'battle' via timer etc. Or still have limited potions, but full heal out of combat.

[sylvanaerie]

Ahh thank you, N7stormrunner.  Game just became a lot less worrisome for me!  My mistakes won't have to be game breaking, then.

[Heimdall]

Is that on easy or normal? Also how tangible? I mean if you love to explore the world and run around and come across random enemies, wouldn't you over time take damage for each fight, even if tangible that it leaves you with limited potions available for when needed. Hence forcing you "out of the game" by making you go back to camp to replenish and then have to run or try to find your way back to where you were.
 
If you can fast travel back to camp at any time. Doesn't that essentially mean you have unlimited potions and health anyways. Just a tacked on nuisance of having to go back to camp?
 
I personally would find it more rewarding and less removal of immersion  dragging you out of what you are doing to do replenish back at camp, to have potions in loot and then place the limit in how many you can use during each 'battle' via timer etc. Or still have limited potions, but full heal out of combat.

Being wounded and running out of supplies, necessitating a return to camp removes your immersion? I'd think it would add to it.

Is it confirmed that fast travel works that way?

[n7stormrunner]

Weekes has beaten the entire game at least twice so far with the strategies he has outlined and reportedly has never had the problem you mention even once, even on dungeons that were high level. Again, he's one of the game's designers,but by his own admission he isn't a DA grand master. I'm curious to see how it works,since like some I was a little worried that part of the 200 hour claimed content time included running back to camp for potions every 10 minutes. Since Weekes says that isn't the case (and he clocked 80-90 hours on his two runs, non-completionist), I look forward to breaking out my thinking cap... or possibly turning it down to casual and waltzing through the game, which I totally did on DAO after my first run through.

 

 

never trust anyone else feelings on how hard a game is. I hear all about dark souls being hard and it's really not just annoying. and I don't mind dying but so much.

 

weekes may be at lot better than me or it could turn out like 90% of game and be annoying not challenging I don't know that yet. based on other game with these "features" and least a few times not having the usual fallbacks will lead to yet another stupid death. 

[Zu Long]

never trust anyone else feelings on how hard a game is. I hear all about dark souls being hard and it's really not just annoying. and I don't mind dying but so much.

 

weekes may be at lot better than me or it could turn out like 90% of game and be annoying not challenging I don't know that yet. based on other game with these "features" and least a few times not having the usual fallbacks will lead to yet another stupid death. 

 

Well, if you can't trust anyone else's opinion, then the only thing to do is wait and see.

[finc.loki]

Part of the tricky balancing act.  I believe initially we had no form of fast travel nor unlimited potions.  But we balance the idea of making individual combat encounters more meaningful (without just throwing absurd amounts of hostiles at you) without outright punishing (or worse, blocking) a player from playing the game.

I find that was just an easy solution to a complex problem.

 

To be honest I also don't think it makes the encounters more meaningful, it only makes me think during each battle, how many potions will I have left, I wasted 2 now and bla bla. The enemies are no longer fun, they are just, try to get as little damage as possible so I don't have to run back and forth.

 

Can you see what I mean by this? Why not make each encounter fun and challenging but leave it at that. Meaning I can get full health back between fights. Not feeling crippled between the fights or the constant thinking about potions.

 

What are your thoughts on the timer on potions in combat? That still allows you going in with full health, but there isn't an easy 8 potions chugging available, it would require tactics and damage mitigation as well.

 

You can still die and your party members. This also would scale via the difficulty levels. Why not put the limitation on potions on the hard and nightmare mode?

 

This also put this emphasis on always having to have a mage in your party. That is limitations of the players own imagination and make up of the story.

Mage is essential now for barriers, only warriors have proper mitigation via guard. Stealth for rogue really doesn't do anything. 

 

I've also come to understand that I will NEVER bring a dual wield rogue in my party, unless I am the one. They always run in and get huge damage in every single video I see.

As soon as the player stop playing the Quizzy rogue in the videos, they always have large amount of damage, the AI can't handle the complexity of being a dual wielding rogue, or so it seems.

[TheRevanchist]

I don't think "logical reaction" really works there. Even if something can be improved -- I'm not sure I see an alternative fix for the healing issue myself that wouldn't have bad side-effects -- it does not therefore follow that the improvement is worth the cost.

 

It kinda is that simple, I already mentioned how Healing magic could be balanced, to avoid Bioware's hatred of "ulimited HP". You simply change the way Heal spells operate and function, so they are used less frequently, forcing the player to use them more sparingly in favor of barriers and so forth which would be faster and cheaper to use. Utterly REMOVING Healing is not a good solution.

[finc.loki]

Being wounded and running out of supplies, necessitating a return to camp removes your immersion? I'd think it would add to it.

Is it confirmed that fast travel works that way?

It does because it takes you out of what you are currently doing. Imagine you are in some part of the map looking for loot doing random fights etc. Then you run out of potions. How will you find your way back to pick up where you left off? Even if you can, you still have to run all the way there for what essentially was something they could have just made you find in LOOT instead. If you really think about it, right now even with the limitation of potions, it is just artificial. You have unlimited potions in reality by going to the camp. As I have said hundreds of times it is just the added 'nuisance' layer of having to run back and forth.

 

It breaks the immersion because I can clearly see through the cheap development trick they used. It doesn't make any encounter more "meaningful" it just makes you think, "If I take these guys on, will I have to run back to camp again for my UNLIMITED supply of potions that could just be in my backpack instead". The annoyance of it all.

 

Instead they could just let you have healing via mage, or a lot of potions, but on timers in combat. It would still create challenging fights. It's just a matter of trying to take on higher level enemies for the challenge, or win over equally leveled enemies with a slightly easier challenge or face-roll lower levelled enemies.

 

No more nuisance.

[n7stormrunner]

It kinda is that simple, I already mentioned how Healing magic could be balanced, to avoid Bioware's hatred of "ulimited HP". You simply change the way Heal spells operate and function, so they are used less frequently, forcing the player to use them more sparingly in favor of barriers and so forth which would be faster and cheaper to use. Utterly REMOVING Healing is not a good solution.

 

or making spammable but weak enough that it works best with barrier. ether would have been better that just removing it except for a limit break... where is the anti jrpg group when you need em.

[TheRevanchist]

I find that was just an easy solution to a complex problem.

 

To be honest I also don't think it makes the encounters more meaningful, it only makes me think during each battle, how many potions will I have left, I wasted 2 now and bla bla. The enemies are no longer fun, they are just, try to get as little damage as possible so I don't have to run back and forth.

 

Can you see what I mean by this? Why not make each encounter fun and challenging but leave it at that. Meaning I can get full health back between fights. Not feeling crippled between the fights or the constant thinking about potions.

 

What are your thoughts on the timer on potions in combat? That still allows you going in with full health, but there isn't an easy 8 potions chugging available, it would require tactics and damage mitigation as well.

 

You can still die and your party members. This also would scale via the difficulty levels. Why not put the limitation on potions on the hard and nightmare mode?

 

This also put this emphasis on always having to have a mage in your party. That is limitations of the players own imagination and make up of the story.

Mage is essential now for barriers, only warriors have proper mitigation via guard. Stealth for rogue really doesn't do anything. 

 

I've also come to understand that I will NEVER bring a dual wield rogue in my party, unless I am the one. They always run in and get huge damage in every single video I see.

As soon as the player stop playing the Quizzy rogue in the videos, they always have large amount of damage, the AI can't handle the complexity of being a dual wielding rogue, or so it seems.

 

This as well. Why must every difficulty Mode have the same across the board feature list? Let Easy mode have HP regen out of Combat, and let Hard and Nightmare have no regen. Have lower difficulties have unlimited potion slots, and limit it more and more the higher the difficulty. That is the entire POINT of Difficulty levels is it not? Why are you forcing your design philosophy upon ALL players? You are now forcing everyone to play the game basically the same way every time. This imo totally destroys the appeal of ever replaying the game. 

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Thank you Patrick, this does make me feel much better.

All I need is a minstrel to follow me around, singing songs about my heroic cowardice...

Hah  

Reminds me of this:

[Heimdall]

It does because it takes you out of what you are currently doing. Imagine you are in some part of the map looking for loot doing random fights etc. Then you run out of potions. How will you find your way back to pick up where you left off? Even if you can, you still have to run all the way there for what essentially was something they could have just made you find in LOOT instead. If you really think about it, right now even with the limitation of potions, it is just artificial. You have unlimited potions in reality by going to the camp. As I have said hundreds of times it is just the added 'nuisance' layer of having to run back and forth.

It breaks the immersion because I can clearly see through the cheap development trick they used. It doesn't make any encounter more "meaningful" it just makes you think, "If I take these guys on, will I have to run back to camp again for my UNLIMITED supply of potions that could just be in my backpack instead". The annoyance of it all.

Instead they could just let you have healing via mage, or a lot of potions, but on timers in combat. It would still create challenging fights. It's just a matter of trying to take on higher level enemies for the challenge, or win over equally leveled enemies with a slightly easier challenge or face-roll lower levelled enemies.

No more nuisance.

It makes each encounter more meaningful in the sense that you have to fight with not only the current battle in mind, but future ones as well. If you want to run back after every battle so that you come to each one fresh, your missing the point, the point is to encourage more cautious play. It's not an annoyance, it's a different style of play, a challenge. I find it much more immersive than drip feeding potions into my characters during battle myself, from what I hear of it.

[sylvanaerie]

Hah  

Reminds me of this:

 

Sounds like what my battle tactic will be about "running around screaming like a little girl, while taking potshots at their knees and trying not to get clobbered".

At least my Hawke got to shoot the Arishok in the groin with "Assassinate".  Hopefully I'll get some good screenies of battles in this game.

[TheRevanchist]

It makes each encounter more meaningful in the sense that you have to fight with not only the current battle in mind, but future ones as well. If you want to run back after every battle so that you come to each one fresh, your missing the point, the point is to encourage more cautious play. It's not an annoyance, it's a different style of play, a challenge. I find it much more immersive than drip feeding potions into my characters during battle myself, from what I hear of it.

 

"meaningful" in this situation, is highly subjective. We see it as annoying, you see it as engaging. It is simply a difference of preferred play style.

[Gnoster]

A very good post leviating a lot of the concerns surrounding the lack of healing spells, well done. Patricks idea here should be reused for other concerns as well as it really explains a lot of the design decisions as well.

Just an interesting thought about the lack of healing: what could be the lore reason for healing suddenly disappearing from the world? (I know, we as players are probably not meant to question it like that, just an interesting thought on how could one based on lore explain? Maybe the Maker withdrew the power, the rifts cause it or something?)

[Lumix19]

A very good post leviating a lot of the concerns surrounding the lack of healing spells, well done. Patricks idea here should be reused for other concerns as well as it really explains a lot of the design decisions as well.

Just an interesting thought about the lack of healing: what could be the lore reason for healing suddenly disappearing from the world? (I know, we as players are probably not meant to question it like that, just an interesting thought on how could one based on lore explain? Maybe the Maker withdrew the power, the rifts cause it or something?)

Healing has not disappeared (lorewise). Just because the PC can't use blood magic doesn't mean that it has disappeared from the world either.

[Heimdall]

"meaningful" in this situation, is highly subjective. We see it as annoying, you see it as engaging. It is simply a difference of preferred play style.

No doubt, I still say it's ridiculous to say it breaks immersion.

[n7stormrunner]

A very good post leviating a lot of the concerns surrounding the lack of healing spells, well done. Patricks idea here should be reused for other concerns as well as it really explains a lot of the design decisions as well.

Just an interesting thought about the lack of healing: what could be the lore reason for healing suddenly disappearing from the world? (I know, we as players are probably not meant to question it like that, just an interesting thought on how could one based on lore explain? Maybe the Maker withdrew the power, the rifts cause it or something?)

 

no rift make no sense for any magic not based on demons/spirits disappear cause the fade is where magic comes from. if anything it should be stronger. maker isn't actual involved in... well anything. no lore reason at all.

[Allan Schumacher]

Is that on easy or normal? Also how tangible? I mean if you love to explore the world and run around and come across random enemies, wouldn't you over time take damage for each fight, even if tangible that it leaves you with limited potions available for when needed. Hence forcing you "out of the game" by making you go back to camp to replenish and then have to run or try to find your way back to where you were.

 

If you can fast travel back to camp at any time. Doesn't that essentially mean you have unlimited potions and health anyways. Just a tacked on nuisance of having to go back to camp?

 

On Normal.

 

Note that it sometimes does require a bit more management than I did in my mini-experiment, but it's also having more abilities and the benefits that those provide.  I'm level 6-7 in my game right now and any mob that is less than me is pretty trivial.  Most groups I fight are between 4 and 8.  This is with my mage character, and between her and Varric I can usually take out a lower HP enemy in an opening attack.  This often turns fights into 4 vs 3/2.  I use Cassandra as my tank, and have passive abilities that improve the guard generation as well as improve damage mitigation from the flanks (which ensures her barriers/guards stay up longer).  As long as Cass can hold aggro and I outnumber the opposition, it's unlikely my party takes any damage unless I am careless.  Which is part of the learning process too.

 

It also feeds my reward mechanic as I feel rewarded to get through combats without losing any health.

 

 

I personally would find it more rewarding and less removal of immersion  dragging you out of what you are doing to do replenish back at camp, to have potions in loot and then place the limit in how many you can use during each 'battle' via timer etc. Or still have limited potions, but full heal out of combat.

 

Immersion is a subjective thing unfortunately.  Full heal out of combat requires different combat encounter design than what we have.  Unless you'd be okay with the game being super easy, at which point you'll probably find the casual difficulty to be perfectly fine for you.

 

It's also important to restate that you discover new camp locations while adventuring.  Establishing these increases Inquisition power, restores your health and potions, and gives you a new fast travel destination if you need it.  A lot of the times my supplies are replenished simply by continuing to explore and not needing me to backtrack to a place I have already been.

 

 

 

To be honest I also don't think it makes the encounters more meaningful, it only makes me think during each battle, how many potions will I have left, I wasted 2 now and bla bla. The enemies are no longer fun, they are just, try to get as little damage as possible so I don't have to run back and forth.

 

Opinions will of course differ about this.  I think it means that even a smaller encounter can still be meaningful, rather than a pointless speed bump that poses 0 threat/cost to the player.

 

 

Can you see what I mean by this? Why not make each encounter fun and challenging but leave it at that. Meaning I can get full health back between fights. Not feeling crippled between the fights or the constant thinking about potions.

 

Yes I can understand your perspective.  Can you understand mine?  They are two different perspectives on game design.  I know I'm a BioWare dev so take my words with a grain of salt, but I find the combat of the game fun.

 

 

This also put this emphasis on always having to have a mage in your party. That is limitations of the players own imagination and make up of the story.

There are plenty of people that felt this was necessary even with the healing mechanic.

 

 

I've also come to understand that I will NEVER bring a dual wield rogue in my party, unless I am the one.

That might be the case sure.  It might not be too.  I actually believe that you'll probably improve your skills.  If you absolutely find you can't get around this, on the plus side all rogues can be made into ranged attackers if you need so you can still make up the party the way that you like.