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Health and Healing: A View from the Outside


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#726
Dunbartacus

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I would give any weight to this complaint if previous DA games reacted or even recognized that the PC had healing magic. But they do not. 

 

So there's no basis to the RP complaint, any more than it would be to say that the absence of curse of mortality affects RP. 

I think some people just like being a healer type, it doesn't matter if the game acknowledges it or not.


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#727
Heimdall

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I would give any weight to this complaint if previous DA games reacted or even recognized that the PC had healing magic. But they do not. 
 
So there's no basis to the RP complaint, any more than it would be to say that the absence of curse of mortality affects RP.

I didn't say it held MUCH weight, but it is a role that people use to define their characters' personality in their heads. So it is a loss on that front, it just isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be, partly for the reasons you mentioned.

#728
sylvanaerie

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I think some people just like being a healer type, it doesn't matter if the game acknowledges it or not.

 

QFT.  My plan is to try to use the new system to work around my RP as a healer crippled by the Rift.



#729
The Elder King

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Have you seen the difference list between Neverwinter Nights 'easy' and 'difficult'? Take a look if you haven't.
 
They had obviously managed to pull it off somehow. And it had nothing to do with 'different combat systems' and 'no healing spells for you today, sorry'.

It was a different game with a different engine. Even if They wanted to, They probably wouldn't have the time to do it, Considering how much work They did for using the new engine.

#730
Dunbartacus

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QFT.  My plan is to try to use the new system to work around my RP as a healer crippled by the Rift.

curiuos whats QFT mean?



#731
lolwut

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How is 'cast shields&barriers  +drink potions' more meaningful than playing with a CD-ed healing spells? Also, what does it have to do with the potential wipe? People wipe with healers too, you know. Having a healer does not guarantee one anything, one still has to use his brains and follow the tactics. 

 

Also, seeing words 'balanced combat' referred to the single-player is kinda strange. Yeah, it makes sense to avoid both player oneshoting his\her enemies and mobs oneshoting the player. That one is obvious.

 

But changing reactive healing (healing spells) to proactive (barriers, procs, HOTs) does not actually 'balance' anything per se. Balance is when  players can equally success with whichever strategy and playstyle they prefer. Be it healing, shielding, dex-tanking, mage\rogue non-tank parties etc.  

 

Gonna break this down into individual things, which I don't usually do, but the hell with it, I'm drunk and the night is young.

 

>How is 'cast shields&barriers  +drink potions' more meaningful than playing with a CD-ed healing spells? Also, what does it have to do with the potential wipe? People wipe with healers too, you know. Having a healer does not guarantee one anything, one still has to use his brains and follow the tactics. 

 

People *do* wipe with a healer. Of course they do. But they're not supposed to. The problem is that with the way that DAO and DA2 were set up, every single fight has to have the capacity to wipe or it's literally just a waste of time. If you get rid of the player having unlimited health (and that's what easy healing amounts to), then fights which can't reasonably be expected to wipe can be meaningful because damage will add up over several fights.

 

>Also, seeing words 'balanced combat' referred to the single-player is kinda strange. Yeah, it makes sense to avoid both player oneshoting his\her enemies and mobs oneshoting the player. That one is obvious.

>But changing reactive healing (healing spells) to proactive (barriers, procs, HOTs) does not actually 'balance' anything per se. Balance is when  players can equally success with whichever strategy and playstyle they prefer. Be it healing, shielding, dex-tanking, mage\rogue non-tank parties etc.

 
That's not what balance means. Balance means that the game devs have control of the difficulty and it's where they think it's supposed to be, which is incredibly hard to do when your players can have effectively unlimited health.
 
For instance, Easy in DAO was incredibly unbalanced in a couple of places due to glitches which meant that the combat was harder than Nightmare. Remember Redcliffe?
 
Balance doesn't mean that your players can't play suboptimally, it means that there's a balanced progression in difficulty. Difficulty spikes where you don't want them to be are bad.

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#732
sylvanaerie

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curiuos whats QFT mean?

Quoted For Truth! :D   


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#733
Heimdall

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exaggeration, stone-fist and a spell that may be similar to firestorm is in rift mage and walking bomb is assumed to be in necromancer.

Seems a little weird to have that in Rift Mage, but it definitely doesn't mean there are no knew spells in either. Thanks :)

#734
Xilizhra

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I disagree. Having two different system is, in my opinion, ridicolous (not to say a probably impossible task with the current dev time, expecially Considering the New engine). There should only one (I honestly don't care which as long as well done).
I won't, probably. It might make the combat Broken.

I think the combat is already pre-broken for our convenience.



#735
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curiuos whats QFT mean?


Quoted for truth.

#736
thevaleyard

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Seems a little weird to have that in Rift Mage, but it definitely doesn't mean there are no knew spells in either. Thanks :)

 

Firestorm is also in Rift Mage.



#737
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I think the combat is already pre-broken for our convenience.


How so? The camp system?

#738
Dunbartacus

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Seems a little weird to have that in Rift Mage, but it definitely doesn't mean there are no knew spells in either. Thanks :)

anytime :D artificer,tempest and Knight enchanter seem to be completely new.



#739
sylvanaerie

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anytime :D artificer,tempest and Knight enchanter seem to be completely new.

I'm looking forward to giving Knight Enchanter a shot.  Seems like it would fit right in there with the RP.  



#740
jtav

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Archer/Artificer/Subterfuge looks like it's going to be death incarnate.
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#741
Dunbartacus

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I'm looking forward to giving Knight Enchanter a shot.  Seems like it would fit right in there with the RP.  

That's my first playthrough except mine will probably be more shooting lightning at fools while simultaneously stabbing them than yours :lol: .


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#742
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Champion might be 'new' since it seems revamped by the description as tank spec instead of a buffer one.

#743
Muspade

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No, not you. Someone else on the boards.


Such as it is.

#744
Heimdall

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Firestorm is also in Rift Mage.

I'm pretty sure I saw that under Inferno in the video I just looked at.

#745
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I'm pretty sure I saw that under Inferno in the video I just looked at.


In tue recent one from YouTubers, There isn't.

#746
Heimdall

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In tue recent one from YouTubers, There isn't.

But is it in Rift Mage?

#747
Dunbartacus

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But is it in Rift Mage?

The focus ability in rift mage is probably firestorm or maybe fadestorm hehe. :P



#748
NRieh

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Balance means that the game devs have control of the difficulty and it's where they think it's supposed to be, which is incredibly hard to do when your players can have effectively unlimited health.

What 'unlimited health' are you talking about? DA2 heals had CDs. All of them. More than once I had Anders drinking a health potion with 3\4 of mana bar. One had to time heals, regens and revivals. Yeah, one might say that it was all about the DPS taken vs HPS done + DPS done. But it's exactly same now, it's just we replace 'HPS' with the 'shield absorbs'. 

 

Once again, there are plenty of ways to complicate player's life. Other than taking away his spells. Not to mention that some players do not need their life complicated, as they play casuals, easys and normals.There's no way they should be involved in hardcore players issues.  



#749
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But is it in Rift Mage?

They didn't show the spells in it. It seems it's in Because the focus icon resembles Firestorm, I think.
Plus, the prima guide preview describes the spec as the one based on offensive spells, so it seems likely the focus spell is a powerful one like Firestorm.

#750
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What 'unlimited health' are you talking about? DA2 heals had CDs. All of them. More than once I had Anders drinking a health potion with 3\4 of mana bar. One had to time heals, regens and revivals. Yeah, one might say that it was all about the DPS taken vs HPS done + DPS done. But it's exactly same now, it's just we replace 'HPS' with the 'shield absorbs'. 
 
Once again, there are plenty of ways to complicate player's life. Other than taking away his spells. Not to mention that some players do not need their life complicated, as they play casuals, easys and normals.There's no way they should be involved in hardcore players issues.

Normal is more on Less at the same level of DAO, and easy/Casual doesn't seem to be difficult, and it has additional bonus to health regen when characters revive without using spells and (possibly) on health regen.