1390 réponses à ce sujet

[TheCreeper]

Also sounds like mages went from "makes things a lot easier " to "You're an idiot if you don't bring one along"

Frankly I always thought they where the latter. 

[KoorahUK]

That's pretty much what I figured. Without a mage you'd still need to compensate somehow, like throwing in more warriors or something.

Thanks for responding Allan!

I am totally going to try a 4 warrior party at some point. My only concern around this is the non-combat uses classes have, such as Rogue's picking locks. I don't mind missing out on loot or some minor thing, but I recall the gameplay video where Lel was being tortured and you needed a rogue to open the door to her cell.

I'd hope if a mission required a certain class for plot reasons that would be clearly telegraphed somehiw before party selection.

[The Elder King]

I think that the necessity of a mage for Barrier will be as necessary as people think a mage was for healing in previous games.  Maybe less so depending on your class selections.  I could easily see 4 warriors being untouchable since guard doesn't degrade over time.  4 rogues would possibly have the toughest time?  They have great damage output, and good range if some are an archer, but the explicit damage mitigation is lesser.  They do have stealth though.
 
I'd have to see if "all X" builds work.  I haven't tried.

I agree, though I think rogues will have better evasion/defence rate, due to some passives and higher Dex/cun (don't know if those stats increase defence now though).

[Star fury]

It does seem a little bi polar to me that they are talking about 'strategically planning your encounters...but don't worry before a REALLY TOUGH fight you get a free potion re charge'. I'm not disgusted, but it is a bit...chuckle worthy.

Health potion restocking kinda beats biower's whole point of combat and health changes Instead of gradual attrition of party health by several fights with normal enemies and forcing players to plan strategically to use potions now or saving it for a particularly strong boss, now you just can restock all your potions before a difficult encounter.
Seems like a concession for casuals.

[In Exile]

Health potion restocking kinda beats biower's whole point of combat and health changes Instead of gradual attrition of party health by several fights with normal enemies and forcing players to plan strategically to use potions now or saving it for a particularly strong boss, now you just can restock all your potions before a difficult encounter.
Seems like a concession for casuals.

 

Not really, since all it means is that every boss battle is balanced for you to have a full potion load, meaning the damage it can cause is upped to account for it. 

[Star fury]

I think that the necessity of a mage for Barrier will be as necessary as people think a mage was for healing in previous games.  Maybe less so depending on your class selections.  I could easily see 4 warriors being untouchable since guard doesn't degrade over time.  4 rogues would possibly have the toughest time?  They have great damage output, and good range if some are an archer, but the explicit damage mitigation is lesser.  They do have stealth though.
 
I'd have to see if "all X" builds work.  I haven't tried.

So will we need to have at least one mage with barrier and/or warrior because of "guard" in the party on higher difficulties like hard & nightmare?

[KoorahUK]

Health potion restocking kinda beats biower's whole point of combat and health changes Instead of gradual attrition of party health by several fights with normal enemies and forcing players to plan strategically to use potions now or saving it for a particularly strong boss, now you just can restock all your potions before a difficult encounter.
Seems like a concession for casuals.

Not really. Players have to strategically plan their potion use to get to the end boss. 

 

If you are teh l33t h4rdc0r3s though, no ones forcing you to use the pre-Boss potion table.

[Elhanan]

So will we need to have at least one mage with barrier and/or warrior because of "guard" in the party on higher difficulties like hard & nightmare?

Am only an older gamer, but this seems more like it is simply more viable to play with any party set-up, and helps to move away from the MMO mentality. It is more like returning back to the days when Players could roll what they wished, design parties as they wished, etc.

Again, no worries here from me.

[Doominike]

If you think potion refills make it too easy just don't use them

[Blightor]

I'm a little concerned that the tester is not a good enough player.

 

I really hope that players that can complete dragon age on hard and at least have some tactical nous are providing just as much input into the health system, game overall - Really, it wasn't that hard at all in DA1 - no exaggeration.

 

I will be very disappointed if I put this game into Hard mode and find it so easy that I don't even need to use much tactical pause.

 

Fine if you want to keep it approachable for players on normal level (the new easy), just don't make hard a small step up, because it just wont be hard.

[Doominike]

I'm a little concerned that the tester is not a good enough player.

 

I really hope that players that can complete dragon age on hard and at least have some tactical nous are providing just as much input into the health system, game overall - Really, it wasn't that hard at all in DA1 - no exaggeration.

 

I will be very disappointed if I put this game into Hard mode and find it so easy that I don't even need to use much tactical pause.

 

Fine if you want to keep it approachable for players on normal level (the new easy), just don't make hard a small step up, because it just wont be hard.

The OP is one of the writers I'm pretty sure

[The Elder King]

I enjoy Origins with a no-health-regen mod, but I wouldn't want an absence of healing mages. Mage-Healers have been a pinnacle of RPG organization and combat for decades, in all forms, and for Inquisition to suddenly strip something that's so ingrained in the mindset of RPG structure is very bold, but it seems like it's a change for the sake of change. Inquisition doesn't benefit from Bioware wanting to show off their bravado.

Again, I don't think They changed for the sake of change or to show their bravado, Considering the work in changing the system.

[The Elder King]

I'm a little concerned that the tester is not a good enough player.
 
I really hope that players that can complete dragon age on hard and at least have some tactical nous are providing just as much input into the health system, game overall - Really, it wasn't that hard at all in DA1 - no exaggeration.
 
I will be very disappointed if I put this game into Hard mode and find it so easy that I don't even need to use much tactical pause.
 
Fine if you want to keep it approachable for players on normal level (the new easy), just don't make hard a small step up, because it just wont be hard.

Normal is supposed to be more or Less on the same level of DAO. Which could be completed without using the pause/tactical camera a lot.

[Allan Schumacher]

So will we need to have at least one mage with barrier and/or warrior because of "guard" in the party on higher difficulties like hard & nightmare?

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see players succeed on the higher difficulties without one or the other.  I'm not going to say that they need it because undoubtedly someone is going to prove me wrong.

[Bfler]

Finished Last Flight today, and

Spoiler

at the end in the cave with the undead, both mages in the party use combat heals, the one for herself the other one a full group heal, which restores the health of the other ones, two of them mortally wounded, completely. Seems a bit strange, that the well trained master mages in Inquisition don't know such spells, while the mages in the book, who are almost apprentices, do know how to heal.

[sylvanaerie]

Normal is supposed to be more or Less on the same level of DAO. Which could be completed without using the pause/tactical camera a lot.

ummm I paused and micromanaged the helloutta Origins my first couple playthroughs till I got the hang of fighting.     And that first ogre was a pita till I figured out how to kite/fight him with my mage, Alistair and two tower guards in crappy gear.  This was on Easy mode.  As the learning curve stopped being so steep I was able to move up to the next level of difficulty, set my tactics more intelligently and stop helicopter parenting my pixel people.  

 

I plan on having to do the same with Inquisition as well.

[JEMEDAOME2]

I have. You lot are just very melodramatic with "WHY OH WHY DID YOU CHANGE IT, IT'S RUINED ARRGH...MEE OH MY, I WILL NOW FORSAKE THEE FOR YOU HAVE BROKEN MY TRUST...ARGH!" (Swoons)

 

Changed it basically  some people have their corsets on too tight When DAI brand smelling salts wake them up they'll soon stop moaning....until the next Bioware Rpg comes out whatver or whenever that is

[The Elder King]

ummm I paused and micromanaged the helloutta Origins my first couple playthroughs till I got the hang of fighting. And that first ogre was a pita till I figured out how to kite/fight him with my mage, Alistair and two tower guards in crappy gear. This was on Easy mode. As the learning curve stopped being so steep I was able to move up to the next level of difficulty, set my tactics more intelligently and stop helicopter parenting my pixel people.

I plan on having to do the same with Inquisition as well.

My point was that it can be completed without pausing, depending on the person and his/her preferred playstyle.
So a player looking for a challenge/hardcore player (like the one I quoted, I think) would probably found DAO Normal level not very difficult.

[sylvanaerie]

My point was that it can be completed without pausing, depending on the person and his/her preferred playstyle.
So a player looking for a challenge/hardcore player (like the one I quoted, I think) would probably found DAO Normal level not very difficult.

 

Agreed.  My post was kind of illustrating how it is possible to go from someone who has to pause a crap load and plan out every little strike, even in the easiest setting, to not only just setting tactics to handle the simpler fights, but actually moving up a level of difficulty!  I cannot express to you the pleasure I got out of hitting "Normal" for the first time after playing "Easy" became too easy. 

I expect Inquisition to be the same.  I could be wrong, I may have a ton of trouble, but having read some of what's been posted on the thread I'm less worried now than I was when I first picked it up last week.

[Bleachrude]

To everyone, when you relate your past experiences with combat, can you please state what difficulty you were using? (and if you were using mods on PC as well).

 

Personally, on nightmare, for example during the deep roads, if you did the optimal playthrough, 3 mages plus Alistair would simply steam roll everything (maybe use one or two hgih level mana potions) whereas a non-mage party I thought it was damn near impossible and if you did complete the deep roads, you were chugging a HUGE number of potions.

[xelander]

What I'm concerned about is Tactics in DAI. Bioware have changed the nature of healing from reactive to proactive and that is certain to improve the gameplay experience. Even better would have been if they had moved straight to trying to hit without getting hit, with both having dire conseqences (I like my fantasy and sci-fi as realistic as possible), but that's a topic for another day.

 

However, the Tactics in DAO and DA2 were quite reactive the way they were able to be set up. If Health < 50% Then Drink Potion/Heal. The problem is with the new way things work - it'll probably be hard or even impossible to define tactics that anticipate the right moment for healing/add temporary hp. Now, that's fine in MP, where you control only one character, and in SP, if you are going to predominantly use the Tac Cam. Yet, there were a lot of people who liked to set the team tactics and play only their own character, only switching between teammates for the extremely tough encounters. And since I'm planning again to run the game on Nightmare, with friendly fire, I'm a bit concerned.

 

@Bleachrude

In DAO, the optimal hands-free party was 2 Haste and Heal mages with 2 Two-Handed Warriors (That is, if you are PC Master race and remove the haste bug). The most powerful party, though, was 3 mages and an archer, much like in DA2. I'll be interested to see if I can make 4 Warriors work in DAI.

[Wulfsten]

Great stuff. I always thought the compulsive healing in RPGs was a gameplay flaw more often than it was a reward for good planning. I definitely welcome this, it sounds like a well-thought innovation and refinement.

 

Also, for people who are complaining that this will force people to play one specific way, I really am not getting that at all. It seems like by far the focus is on customisation and choice. The deeper crafting, the tactical spell emphasis, and yes, the fact that survivability is now dependent on more than just the best armor money can buy + potions all point to a system that wants to be more complex and engaging.

 

We should be encouraging that. 

[Dunbartacus]

allan schumacher has said he rarely switches characters in combat on normal which would suggest a fairly robust tactics system.

[lolwut]

The OP is one of the writers I'm pretty sure

 

Writer, not combat system designer.