1390 réponses à ce sujet

[fchopin]

I would like to say that Patrick Weekes post does not explain why we have no mage healers like we had in previous Dragon Age games so they are in fact trying to make us play the game the way they want and not for us to have the freedom to build out team the way we want and fight the way we want.
For me a mage who cannot heal is not a true mage and i would rather play the game without a mage team member but i think we will have to have a mage in DAI.

I don’t really care if there is healing in the game or not as Bioware games are not that difficult and i don’t think DAI will be any different. There are many restrictions in the game and i do not understand why this is so.

[unclee]

I would like to say that Patrick Weekes post does not explain why we have no mage healers like we had in previous Dragon Age games so they are in fact trying to make us play the game the way they want and not for us to have the freedom to build out team the way we want and fight the way we want.
For me a mage who cannot heal is not a true mage and i would rather play the game without a mage team member but i think we will have to have a mage in DAI.

I don’t really care if there is healing in the game or not as Bioware games are not that difficult and i don’t think DAI will be any different. There are many restrictions in the game and i do not understand why this is so.

 

The easiest explanation: healing magic isn't super common in the lore. It was always more of a gameplay necessity than something that was true to the lore of the Dragon Age universe.

 

Then again, if you don't care about lore then that explanation doesn't really do anything for you.

[Medhia_Nox]

@fchopin:  I assume you're basing that "mage who can't heal" thing on Dragon Age alone yes?

Dragon Age - an entire world of which you've only been exposed to a small snippet of lore over two games and four? books - several comics and an animated movie?  That Dragon Age is where you know all about the mages?

Because I can show you a huge amount of games where the character titled "Mage" has no healing.

[fchopin]

@fchopin:  I assume you're basing that "mage who can't heal" thing on Dragon Age alone yes?

Dragon Age - an entire world of which you've only been exposed to a small snippet of lore over two games and four? books - several comics and an animated movie?  That Dragon Age is where you know all about the mages?

Because I can show you a huge amount of games where the character titled "Mage" has no healing.

I don’t play games with books and comics so i have no interest in this, i play games with a game and the story in DAO i played a mage and most mages healed.
If Bioware do not know how to create stories that do not change in every page they create that is not my problem. They have to start writing stories that have consistency or create stand alone games.

[fchopin]

The easiest explanation: healing magic isn't super common in the lore.

Not in the Dragon Age games I played.

[Starscream723]

Given that I rarely change characters on Normal, I don't forsee it being a significant issue on Casual.

 

Good to know, thank you for answering.

[The Elder King]

Not in the Dragon Age games I played.

In the Dragon Age games that I played There were plently of lore-breaking abilities as well. Making healing work in combat despite being supposed to not work in combat lorewise won't be that new.
They actually said that letting mages healing in combat was something They had to do despite being supposed to now work in combat lorewise. It's up to you to believe them or not (or don't care what They say since the games shown something different)

[Eudaemonium]

I don't really get the uproar about all of this. They changed it. They entirely redesigned the combat system from the ground up to account for it. This isn't DA2 where you fight like 39000 ceiling-dropping mook waves but suddenly with no healing, from the gameplay videos it looks like most encounters will be strategically-planned ones against groups of 2-5 opponents, occasionally more.

 

I get that some people, RP-wise, like to play healers. And honestly, that's pretty much the only form of valid complaint I can see in all of this.

[Heimdall]

Not in the Dragon Age games I played.

Not in the gameplay, no. Encounters in DAO were all designed around healing, so there had to be a lot of it. Lore is another matter.

[Wulfsten]

Also to the people who are complaining that they just want to be able to play the game "their way" and that they should be able to heal if they want to, consider this: 

 

All gameplay design is an exercise in discrimination. How reasonable do you think it would be to say to the devs who made Skyrim "I just want to be able to go around with no armor on and no weapons and beat the whole game that way, because I want to roleplay as a heroic hobo with no possessions! WHYYY are you making equipment necessary to my enjoyment of the GAAAAME?!"

 

"I just want to be able to go through all of Skyrim without fighting anyone, WHYYY is so much of the content dependent on wanting to KILL and HURT other PEEEOPPLEEEE?!"

 

So when Patrick says "you will want to include a mage in your party", I would take it along the same lines as "you will want to equip armor in this game". It's built into the gameplay experience. This is literally the most childish "I want everything all the time" complaint I can imagine. Everything about how they designed the game points to the idea that including a variety of classes will increase the tactical complexity of the gameplay.

 

If you're a pure roleplayer and you want to have an all-rogue party because those are the characters you want to interact with, then go play on Easy. That's exactly what it's designed for - people who just want to experience the story and have no interest in the tactical side of the game. It's not shameful to want that, either. That's why a lot of games have stopped calling it "easy" and have started calling it "story focused". 

[unclee]

Not in the Dragon Age games I played.

 

Again, that was a gameplay necessity rather than a story choice. I think it was Allan who said the old combat was designed around wiping your party at each encounter, so healing was something that had to be in there for gameplay to be fun. When they went about redesigning the combat they changed it to NOT be that.

 

There are also instances in the games where it's made apparent that healing magic isn't common. It's subtle, but there. Someone brought this up in another thread, but one example is in Dragon Age: Origins when you find Genitivi in Haven. If you have Wynne in your party the Warden asks her if she can heal him.....despite the very real possibility that the Warden could be a healer too. Or that Morrigan can have a healing spell. Without Wynne that dialogue option never shows.

 

As to your point about "Not in the dragon age games I played" well the unfortunate truth is that the Dragon Age universe isn't confined to simply two games. There's a whole lore that encompasses the games, novels, comics and reference materials (such as the World of Theads book).

 

To put it bluntly, it sounds like you don't like it because you have a headcanon about what mages in Dragon Age should be, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary in the lore. If that's the case, then no amount of explanation will convince you of why it was taken out.

[sylvanaerie]

Also to the people who are complaining that they just want to be able to play the game "their way" and that they should be able to heal if they want to, consider this: 

 

All gameplay design is an exercise in discrimination. How reasonable do you think it would be to say to the devs who made Skyrim "I just want to be able to go around with no armor on and no weapons and beat the whole game that way, because I want to roleplay as a heroic hobo with no possessions! WHYYY are you making equipment necessary to my enjoyment of the GAAAAME?!"

 

"I just want to be able to go through all of Skyrim without fighting anyone, WHYYY is so much of the content dependent on wanting to KILL and HURT other PEEEOPPLEEEE?!"

 

So when Patrick says "you will want to include a mage in your party", I would take it along the same lines as "you will want to equip armor in this game". It's built into the gameplay experience. This is literally the most childish "I want everything all the time" complaint I can imagine. Everything about how they designed the game points to the idea that including a variety of classes will increase the tactical complexity of the gameplay.

 

If you're a pure roleplayer and you want to have an all-rogue party because those are the characters you want to interact with, then go play on Easy. That's exactly what it's designed for - people who just want to experience the story and have no interest in the tactical side of the game. It's not shameful to want that, either. That's why a lot of games have stopped calling it "easy" and have started calling it "story focused". 

 

Tried to crop the quote, ended up making a mess so bolding what I wanted to address/emphasize.  First of all, your post made me giggle.  "Murderous hoboes" is the nickname my PnP group has for our Pathfinder characters.  So that definitely struck a core with me. 

 

The second bolded part: This is what I have planned, not so much with 'all of one class' but definitely sums up the goal I have in each game "Get through the story".  I also like calling it 'Story focused' vs 'Easy' mode.  Not that I felt slighted any time someone brings up the term "easy" mode, because I know just how hard 'easy' is for me, but because I just feel 'story focused' fits my game play best.

Thanks for an amusing, and insightful post!

[Star fury]

I wouldn't be surprised to see players succeed on the higher difficulties without one or the other.  I'm not going to say that they need it because undoubtedly someone is going to prove me wrong.

Some players soloed DA:O and DA2 with all classes, I don't have such skills and dedication but you can hardly judge a whole playerbase by few exceptions. I'm actually interested - is it possible for most players on hard & nightmare to play without relying on mage with barrier and warrior with guard? It was really hard to play DA2 on high difficulties without a dedicated healer so you have to choose a mage or were forced to suffer Anders in the party. It was probably the same with DA:O and healers.

[Star fury]

I would like to say that Patrick Weekes post does not explain why we have no mage healers like we had in previous Dragon Age games so they are in fact trying to make us play the game the way they want and not for us to have the freedom to build out team the way we want and fight the way we want.
For me a mage who cannot heal is not a true mage and i would rather play the game without a mage team member but i think we will have to have a mage in DAI.

I don’t really care if there is healing in the game or not as Bioware games are not that difficult and i don’t think DAI will be any different. There are many restrictions in the game and i do not understand why this is so.

Every time somebody says that there is no heal spell/mages can't heal, a puppy dies.

[Gtdef]

However, the Tactics in DAO and DA2 were quite reactive the way they were able to be set up. If Health < 50% Then Drink Potion/Heal. The problem is with the new way things work - it'll probably be hard or even impossible to define tactics that anticipate the right moment for healing/add temporary hp. Now, that's fine in MP, where you control only one character, and in SP, if you are going to predominantly use the Tac Cam. Yet, there were a lot of people who liked to set the team tactics and play only their own character, only switching between teammates for the extremely tough encounters. And since I'm planning again to run the game on Nightmare, with friendly fire, I'm a bit concerned.

 

Provided that tactics and conditions remain roughly the same, there are a few ways to set tactics with a proactive mindset. One example can be

 

Enemy:At mid range -> Use condition for next

Tank: Any -> Cast Barrier

 

Or if the tactics recognize the "taunt" effect, 

 

Enemy: Taunted -> Use condition for next

Tank: Health < 90% -> Cast Barrier

 

If the tactics recognize the guard/barrier effect

 

Tank: Shielded -> Skip Tactics

Tank: Any -> Cast Barrier

 

This will rotate all shielding effects without overlapping. Of course there is room for error but these are very rough. There is room for fine tuning. It also depends on how skills work.

 

Now if they changed the tactic system we will have to see, but if it is the same as DA2 we have a lot of options.

[Nashimura]

The easiest explanation: healing magic isn't super common in the lore. It was always more of a gameplay necessity than something that was true to the lore of the Dragon Age universe.

 

Then again, if you don't care about lore then that explanation doesn't really do anything for you.

 

Uhh... it might not be common, but this is the end of the world we are talking about, we should go and find one. 

[KoorahUK]

Uhh... it might not be common, but this is the end of the world we are talking about, we should go and find one. 

Why would you waste time on that when the mages you do have access to are capable of stopping you from needing healing in the first place?

[unclee]

Uhh... it might not be common, but this is the end of the world we are talking about, we should go and find one. 

 

Considering it's the end of the world, it's likely a "work with what you have" situation for the Inquisition. As you said, the world is ending, so do they really have time to go searching for someone with a gift that isn't very common? Methinks probably not.

[KoorahUK]

Also I'd rather my healing mages were in the field supporting the general soldiery.

[Majin Paul]

I'm disappointed about the lack of a healing spell, or apparant one, whichever it is but it isn't going to convince me to consider if I should not get it, it's just something I'll be skeptical about until I play the game.

[In Exile]

Uhh... it might not be common, but this is the end of the world we are talking about, we should go and find one.

You're going to need to (1) find a mage in the civil war, which fair enough and (2) convince him or her to be the 4th person in a 4 man squad trying to off a dragon. Good luck with that

[Bigdoser]

Considering healers require the aid of spirits going by asunder and the breach messing things up and healing is the hardest to master lore wise. That is enough of explanation in my opinion for those looking for a lore explanation. 

[KoorahUK]

Considering healers require the aid of spirits going by asunder and the breach messing things up and healing is the hardest to master lore wise. That is enough of explanation in my opinion for those looking for a lore explanation. 

I don't actually think it needs any explanation to be honest.

The fact that healing was always available to the PC and most mage companions gives the erroneous impression that healing was commonplace. It isn't and never has been in the lore beyond the game itself, and that was just a concession to gameplay because healing was integral to combat and they wanted you to have control over it.

If anything they are bringing gameplay back into line with Lore rather than breaking it. 

[Elhanan]

I would like to say that Patrick Weekes post does not explain why we have no mage healers like we had in previous Dragon Age games so they are in fact trying to make us play the game the way they want and not for us to have the freedom to build out team the way we want and fight the way we want.
For me a mage who cannot heal is not a true mage and i would rather play the game without a mage team member but i think we will have to have a mage in DAI.

I don’t really care if there is healing in the game or not as Bioware games are not that difficult and i don’t think DAI will be any different. There are many restrictions in the game and i do not understand why this is so.

That explanation is imbedded in the OP as a link; recommended for the design reasoning behind the change.

[lolwut]

Not in the Dragon Age games I played.

 

And in the Dragon Age games I played, you can turn mages who hate the idea of blood magic into blood mages.

 

Perhaps you should consider that the game rules do not equal the world's physics?