1390 réponses à ce sujet

[Nohvarr]

Not true. Read the last pages of the Last Flight book. There is a fight, where two mages are involved. Guess what kind of magic they use to survive the fight.

Was the book written by one of the devs or a writer for hire?

[The Elder King]

Was the book written by one of the devs or a writer for hire?

The latter.

[Arakat]

The game is not called Dragon Age: Healquisition, so playing a healer is not the game you are paying for. You have no entitlement to play a healer, any more than I have an entitlement to play a dual wielding Warrior. Your money buys the product they are producing and its up to you to decide if that product is what you want to buy.  

 

Or to play a City Elf, or a Qun-following Qunari, or an Avvar, or a blood mage, etc. Just because some people want to play as something doesn't mean that Bioware absolutely must put that option into the game. Something must always be left out.

[fchopin]

That... really doesn't invalidate anything KoorahUK has been saying. The game is balanced around fighting enemies of your level. This balance was achieved by reworking the combat/healing gameplay mechanics to something that is easier to balance without getting frustrating. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from levelling up above the enemies of the areas/quests your are currently tackling in order to have an easier time of it if that is how you want to play.

I agree with you that it does not invalidate what KoorahUK or Lukas said but it also does not say why healing was taken out as you can balance fights in many different ways.

[Bfler]

Was the book written by one of the devs or a writer for hire?

 

The latter, but it doesn't matter, because the books are rubber-stamped by Bioware and describe the background of their default world-state. In this case the end of the 4th Blight. Therefore it's official lore.

[KoorahUK]

I agree with you that it does not invalidate what KoorahUK or Lukas said but it also does not say why healing was taken out as you can balance fights in many different ways.

Such as?

[sylvanaerie]

Or to play a City Elf, or a Qun-following Qunari, or an Avvar, or a blood mage, etc. Just because some people want to play as something doesn't mean that Bioware absolutely must put that option into the game. Something must always be left out.

 

It's something you have to come to terms with, rethink your Roleplay/combat tactics and have fun.  There is the option to not buy the game, or wait till it comes out and see what other players think.  I don't have the patience for that.  I'm gonna rethink my roleplay and roll with the new system.  Or die horribly in a blaze of glory.  Maybe both, or maybe I will have less trouble than I am worried about.  Either works for me.  But at least I can say "I gave it a shot".

[unclee]

Not true. Read the last pages of the Last Flight book. There is a fight, where two mages are involved. Guess what kind of magic they use to survive the fight.

 

That still doesn't invalidate the point that healer mages are not common in the Dragon Age lore. Showing two mages use healing magic simply shows that those two mages are one of the few who can do it. So adding in those two brings the grand total of named healers in the lore up to what? Half a dozen?

 

Still not a lot, and certainly not the "All mages get the heals!" that the gameplay mechanics of DA:O made necessary.

[lolwut]

I agree with you that it does not invalidate what KoorahUK or Lukas said but it also does not say why healing was taken out as you can balance fights in many different ways.

 

Okay, so how do you balance unlimited health with trying to make combat meaningful without either a) stunlocking the player so that they can't use their healing abilities (which is unfun), or b ) giving enemies enough damage to oneshot the party (which is stupid)?

[Star fury]

This system is limiting how I want to play the game I paid for. A system that has been proven time and time again to work perfectly is now being removed from a great game due to a bottlenecked imagination. So instead of using a heal I now have to use a cluster of random nerfed abilities that worked far better in past games to do what one ability could do. I understand the change but I don't agree with it. Can we ever get the quality of game that origins produced? Maybe Dragon Age IV or V.

How about you see a "crisis" with the goddamn healing as a challenge or an opportunity to play the game in a different way, to become better in it? Complaining about limited healing will not change anything that late in the game development.

[WillieStyle]

The combat in DA:O sucked. It was horribly imbalanced and unresponsive. Please carry on.

[Ariella]

It is impossible for Bioware to know before hand what level our character will be so there is no way for them to know how to balance the fights.
If we have freedom in the way we play the game and witch part of the game we do first and there is no level scaling Bioware can only guess what level we will be so how difficult fights become will be up to us don’t you think…

The only way to control the fights is to level up opponents to our level or by cheating.

This isn't any different than the bounty hunter encounter outside of Orzammar. In fact I remember David Gaider specifically pointing this out because it was a "gate" to let players know that 'here be dragons', or more to the point, encounters got more difficult from here on it.

[Wulfsten]

Seriously? There are still people saying that without healing they won't be able to complete the game on Hard or Nightmare?

 

Do you actually not think they took that into account when making this change? What kind of astonishing myopia does it take to think that DAI will literally have the same combat system and balance as DA2, except without potions?

 

Or is it that you actually cannot conceive of a game that is hard but does not require healing spells to beat it? 

 

I am flabbergasted. 

[fchopin]

Such as?

There are many different ways to create good combat with healing and many other games have used it.

Just to give you one example you can have a mage use a healing power that heals injured party members slow so it would be of very little use when fighting but would be helpful after the fight is over.
You can have healing that takes a few minutes to heal after fights which would make it very useful so you would not need to go back to camp all the time and it should not affect fights.

In Risen you could drink water to heal the body but it was very slow so most times you had to sleep to completely heal yourself.

As i said there are many ways it could have been done and maybe Bioware has done this as we don’t really know what is included in the game.

[sylvanaerie]

Seriously? There are still people saying that without healing they won't be able to complete the game on Hard or Nightmare?

 

Do you actually not think they took that into account when making this change? What kind of astonishing myopia does it take to think that DAI will literally have the same combat system and balance as DA2, except without potions?

 

Or is it that you actually cannot conceive of a game that is hard but does not require healing spells to beat it? 

 

I am flabbergasted. 

 

It is, in all likelihood the 5 stages of grief.  Any loss can cause it.  I've seen it (and been experiencing it myself) on this thread.  People just need to move beyond varying stages (and there is no time table to this, it will happen in it's own time).

 

Anger...yep lots of that.  "Why did you do this to me?" yea this was hard for me, I couldn't get over the personal slight to my favorite class/spec.

Denial...that too.  "If they had just done this/that to adjust combat they wouldn't need to have done this." It's done.  It's a part of the game.  Accept it and move on.

Bargaining...check.  "If I do X....will you please put healing back? or "I won't buy it then until/if it's fixed."  yea, I am really not getting that mentality.

Depression...yea I went through this one too.  "Man, this sucks...well..."

Acceptance...okay saw a lot of people with this (or those who just didn't care about the mechanic).  I've finally hit this one and it's okay I guess.  At least I can tolerate it till I get my hands on the game and see what I can do with a Knight Enchanter.

[In Exile]

There are many different ways to create good combat with healing and many other games have used it.

Just to give you one example you can have a mage use a healing power that heals injured party members slow so it would be of very little use when fighting but would be helpful after the fight is over.
You can have healing that takes a few minutes to heal after fights which would make it very useful so you would not need to go back to camp all the time and it should not affect fights.

In Risen you could drink water to heal the body but it was very slow so most times you had to sleep to completely heal yourself.

As i said there are many ways it could have been done and maybe Bioware has done this as we don’t really know what is included in the game.

But all of that just nerfs healing. Any game that has slow healing really just has health regen. So what you're saying is that you want a health regen spell?

[fchopin]

But all of that just nerfs healing. Any game that has slow healing really just has health regen. So what you're saying is that you want a health regen spell?

This is not healing for fighting as it does nothing when you fight but heals you slowly after the fight is over.
They can even take the healing potions out of the game if they want.

[sylvanaerie]

On Casual mode, you get health regen up to 50%. Normal is 25%.  Even Hard/Nightmare gets a 10% regen.  So there IS some regen after battles.

[CronoDragoon]

I was a healer in Final Fantasy XI for 7 years and also healed in a Realm Reborn after that. I only became a healer because I couldn't get a party as a Dragoon, and then once I started healing parties, and found I was good at it, I never wanted to do anything else.

 

You may think based on this I'm sad about the loss of healing, but it's the opposite. I see it as an opportunity to try something new that I may enjoy far more than I ever enjoyed Spirit Healer, just as I tried something new with white mage all those MMO years ago. I'm looking at you Tempest and Necromancer.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Combat healing is a game mechanic and not part of the lore, if you're attempting to put forth that weak excuse to stuff it into the gameplay, gameplay which isn't balanced by lore in the first place. The ez hels in Origins and DA2 were gameplay mechanics, whereas in lore, healing require's vast amounts of focus, a calm mind and loads of energy, something that's not very practical on the battlefield.

Reason why mages can't spamheal in gameplay? Because they are attempting to balance the gameplay and not design every encounter to brutally murder you which was the case in the previous two games.

 

 

They can't heal themselves in or out of combat. No healing for these ace mages. AFAIK anyway. 

 

Also though, if healing requires vast amounts of focus, a calm mind, and loads of energy and it's something that's not very practical on the battlefield, where the **** is this massive lorebreaking resurrection focus spell thing coming from? That's in combat and it's a heal to end all heals. What's up with that?

[lolwut]

There are many different ways to create good combat with healing and many other games have used it.

Just to give you one example you can have a mage use a healing power that heals injured party members slow so it would be of very little use when fighting but would be helpful after the fight is over.
You can have healing that takes a few minutes to heal after fights which would make it very useful so you would not need to go back to camp all the time and it should not affect fights.

In Risen you could drink water to heal the body but it was very slow so most times you had to sleep to completely heal yourself.

As i said there are many ways it could have been done and maybe Bioware has done this as we don’t really know what is included in the game.

 

So you want every fight to be set to wipe the party? Because Bioware didn't want that. Try again.

[Gtdef]

They can't heal themselves in or out of combat. No healing for these ace mages. AFAIK anyway. 

 

Same thing. Plus there is nothing really to heal. They live, they function. Low health doesn't mean they are unhealthy. It's a gameplay mechanism that tries to simulate circumstance.

 

Also though, if healing requires vast amounts of focus, a calm mind, and loads of energy and it's something that's not very practical on the battlefield, where the **** is this massive lorebreaking resurrection focus spell thing coming from? That's in combat and it's a heal to end all heals. What's up with that?

 

It's a summoning spell. Not creation. Can't tell how lorebreaking it is yet.

[Shahadem]

The latter, but it doesn't matter, because the books are rubber-stamped by Bioware and describe the background of their default world-state. In this case the end of the 4th Blight. Therefore it's official lore.

 

If it's rubber stamped, then it isn't actually official. Bioware can and probably has preempted some of the author's developments, especially because that book exclusively represents that author's own understanding of the DA lore and that author's own desire to bring in their own version of the DA lore.

 

Hell Bioware has preempted some of its own lore from DA:O and DA2, a book written by an outside author doesn't stand a chance.

[Shahadem]

Mike Laidlaw survived hard mode without bothering to use a single heal spell or take damage and he didn't even use CC, so I don't think heal is as relevant now with damage mitigation. 

 

You need to watch again.

 

He took large percentage damage from a single attack two times in a row (each attack hit a different character), forcing him to use two potions (one for each character).

 

And if healing magic is so difficult, how come a simple plant extract is able to magically heal people? I'm sorry but that's utterly ridiculous. You can't have healing be so difficult and complicated that only mages who spent years studying how are able to do it when a mindless, will-less clump of lyrium is able to instantly regrow limbs and internal organs. You can't have that great an inconsistency in your narrative.

 

The problem isn't really the mechanic, it is the flavor. An obvious an easy solution would be changing healing potions to healing spells. So mages can only cast 8 healing spells without resting. Now you have a mechanical solution that also makes sense within the confines of the story.

[Shahadem]

Diminishing healing magic is outstanding as the logistics of storytelling crumble if healing becomes a common place item in your world building. 

 

But somehow your storyline doesn't crumble if chemicals can heal better than magic and are more readily avaiable and easy to use and more instant?