1390 réponses à ce sujet

[Treacherous J Slither]

Same thing. Plus there is nothing really to heal. They live, they function. Low health doesn't mean they are unhealthy. It's a gameplay mechanism that tries to simulate circumstance.

 

 

 

 

It's a summoning spell. Not creation. Can't tell how lorebreaking it is yet.

 

I call BS. Straight up.

 

What I would have done is make healing spells take time to cast and work and be easily interrupted. That way they would be difficult to pull off in combat and better suited for use after the fight. However, if the player is skilled enough at diverting enemy attention then it can be used in combat as well. Fits lore and makes sense.

[DisturbedJim83]

Well after the farce that is MP and now this total about face on Healing after having paid for this game in full in advance and having waited so long for a DA game after the cancellation of DA2's expansion,it goes without saying that I'm not impressed at all with this decision either, the reasoning of being "fun" and using BlueSky phrases like "meaninful encounters/combat" does not sell it to me either.Just grateful for sites like CheatHappens and their trainers for when I don't want to be bored senseless with item management.

[sylvanaerie]

I wonder if you could build like a support mage that mitigates dmg, no really looked at much to know tbh, see what happens be interesting to say the least

I think that's what the Knight Enchanter build is focused on?  Haven't looked too deeply in depth but that's the spec that has Barrier and Resurgence.  I think.

[wrdnshprd]

i actually dont mind the change.. its just a new way to handle healing.. and lets be honest.. the mechanic is STILL there. its just done differently.. instead of having a heal spell, you have barrier, which essentially is the same thing.. the difference is you get an ADDITIONAL temporary health bar when the spell is cast vs the spell replenishing your actual hit points.  in all honesty i dont see how it will make that much of a difference in the way you play.. you are STILL going to be "forced" into having your party specced for barrier, either via spellcasting or via gear...

 

the above being said, i would have liked a choice as to which way to go.  either spec barrier, or spec healing.  leave the choice up to the player.  and as per usual with bioware, they've removed that "gamey" choice.  some will be fine with that (me being one of them).. others wont be fine with it.

[Gtdef]

What I would have done is make healing spells take time to cast and work and be easily interrupted. That way they would be difficult to pull off in combat and better suited for use after the fight. However, if the player is skilled enough at diverting enemy attention then it can be used in combat as well. Fits lore and makes sense.

 

The codex says that creation magic creates and alters matter. It seems like the process of healing is as involving as a surgery procedure. By that definition your example doesn't really work.

 

If it works differently then sure. 

 

As for spirit healing, these seem to be able to do miraculous things. I doubt that Bioware will bother with documentation on this. They like to leave things open to interpretation.

[Bigdoser]

The codex says that creation magic creates and alters matter. It seems like the process of healing is as involving as a surgery procedure. By that definition your example doesn't really work.

 

If it works differently then sure. 

 

As for spirit healing, these seem to be able to do miraculous things. I doubt that Bioware will bother with documentation on this. They like to leave things open to interpretation.

I think someone in the cole thread might of just found a potential lore reasoning for spirit healer no longer being an option. Might have something to do with the breach making it harder to call on spirits aid to help a mage with healing like they normally do when healing someone. Hence the big heal mainly being a focus option. 

 

 

User

I would like to ask that with the Fade tares in DAI only demons are coming through or nicer spirits too like Valor or Faith ?

 

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes

Mostly demons. Cole and Solas have an interesting talk about why.

[Lumix19]

I think someone in the cole thread might of just found a potential lore reasoning for spirit healer no longer being an option. Might have something to do with the breach making it harder to call on spirits aid to help a mage with healing like they normally do when healing someone. Hence the big heal mainly being a focus option. 
 
 
User
I would like to ask that with the Fade tares in DAI only demons are coming through or nicer spirits too like Valor or Faith ?
 
Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes
Mostly demons. Cole and Solas have an interesting talk about why.

I don't think that's a reason, it's probably just an explanation for why we won't see many benevolent spirits walking around as well as demons. That doesn't mean Spirit Healers can't call upon those benevolent spirits like they did before. Having something unavailable to the PC doesn't exclude it's existence, otherwise Blood Magic would have disappeared as well, which it has not.

[Treacherous J Slither]

The codex says that creation magic creates and alters matter. It seems like the process of healing is as involving as a surgery procedure. By that definition your example doesn't really work.

 

If it works differently then sure. 

 

As for spirit healing, these seem to be able to do miraculous things. I doubt that Bioware will bother with documentation on this. They like to leave things open to interpretation.

 

My example works just fine even within that definition.

[Bigdoser]

I don't think that's a reason, it's probably just an explanation for why we won't see many benevolent spirits walking around as well as demons. That doesn't mean Spirit Healers can't call upon those benevolent spirits like they did before. Having something unavailable to the PC doesn't exclude it's existence, otherwise Blood Magic would have disappeared as well, which it has not.

Well they explained why blood magic is no longer an option and that does not require spirits to be used. Just throwing out ideas why spirit healer is not there because bioware haven't really given a reason yet apart from a game play explanation. I do say until we can get the context of the conversation its still up in the air. 

[Treacherous J Slither]

Well they explained why blood magic is no longer an option and that does not require spirits to be used. Just throwing out ideas why spirit healer is not there because bioware haven't really given a reason yet apart from a game play explanation. I do say until we can get the context of the conversation its still up in the air. 

 

So why is there no blood magic again? What logical reasons did BioWare give if any?

[Bigdoser]

So why is there no blood magic again? What logical reasons did BioWare give if any?

Problem is that they wanted people to react to your specialisation within the story and considering how people normally react to blood magic they would have to devote more resources to the blood mage spec considering they would get a butt load more reactivity than the other specs. Which would unbalance things and make it well unfair to the other specs. Story reason your the leader of the inquisition being a blood mage would not be a good idea if you want to drum up support of the people and various organizations you encounter. 

 

Considering by large blood magic is a big no no even the tevinter publicly are against blood magic and considering many peoples eyes are on you being a blood mage is not a good idea. If you wish for the support to stop the breach. 

 

So they went with necromancer lots of people hate necromancy its frowned upon hell people will think you might deal with demons(considering you bind spirits that might be true) but you are not a blood mage. Plus you are learning from a known order from Nevarra the Mortalitasi well a soul from that order so its not actually "illegal" like blood magic. 

[Treacherous J Slither]

Problem is that they wanted people to react to your specialisation within the story and considering how people normally react to blood magic they would have to devote more resources to the blood mage spec considering they would get a but load more reactivity that the other specs. Story reason your the leader of the inquisition being a blood mage would not be a idea if you want to drum up support of the people and various organizations you encounter. 

 

Considering by large blood magic is a big no no even the tevinter publicly are against blood magic and considering many peoples eyes are on you being a blood mage is not a good idea. 

 

But Necromancy is okay? Being a qunari? Nonsense. What if the Grey Warden leader was a blood mage? People may grumble but they're gonna let you work. I don't see how it should be any different for the Inquisition. Sure people will have their misgivings but once you prove yourself everything should be fine. Just like with the Wardens. 

[Gtdef]

Blood magic can't work the same way it did anyway. No regenerating health means that the spellcasting health cost will be more trouble than it's worth.

 

They could bring back blood wound and mind control but I doubt that would make such an exciting spec. Poor implementation backfiring.

[Bigdoser]

But Necromancy is okay? Being a qunari? Nonsense. What if the Grey Warden leader was a blood mage? People may grumble but they're gonna let you work. I don't see how it should be any different for the Inquisition. Sure people will have their misgivings but once you prove yourself everything should be fine. Just like with the Wardens. 

Yeah the thing is people keep the blood magic part about the wardens on the down low the common man or even templars don't even know about the blood magic part of the wardens. People in DAO did not even react to you even being a blood mage. It was meant to happen in dragon age origins wynne calls you out on your "strange magic" Gregoir questions you irving tries to dodge the conversation trying to convince wynne its grey warden magic. 

 

If you fail your persuasion check guess what? Gregoir tries to take you into custody and everyone in the room attempts to murder you making you lose the mages and templars and being forced to kill wynne. That was cut cause well bugs since you cannot advance the quest line without either of them. Blood magic is connected to the original sin of the magisters and outlawed in pretty much every country. Necromancy is not and considering in DAO you had an animate dead/spirit magic some people would think its simply from that school instead of the proper mortalitasi necromancy. Hence it being frowned upon and being seen as distasteful but not outlawed.

 

 

Your the leader of the inquisition a world icon it would be pretty hard to keep the blood magic hidden and if it gets out? Your screwed seriously it would ruin your whole fight against the breach.

 

 

Plus considering a country practices necromancy and who you learn it from uses it for the death rites in burying the dead hence why its a more viable option that cannot get you killed or lose support since many countries know of them. Still people don't trust said order but they know they are not blood mages. Cass can vouch for you considering she is from the same country. 

[Jester]

But Necromancy is okay? Being a qunari? Nonsense.

 

Practicing Blood Magic is quite possibly perceived as the most hideous thing that the mage can do. It's basically treated as a crime worse than murder. Punishment for Blood Magic is death in all nations where Chantry has influence. People (who mostly worship Andraste and the Maker) would never follow someone who practices Blood Magic.

I know that DA2 allowed you to run around a Templar controlled city, opening your wrists during every encounter and no one seemed to care, and in DA:O it was basically the same, only you were not such a public figure (still, you could use Blood Magic to attack Loghain in front of a Grand Cleric and entire nobility); but that's the very reason why this specialization was dropped for DA:I. 

 

Necromancy is frowned upon, but as long as it is not used in conjunction with Blood Magic, I don't believe it is even forbidden strictly speaking. 

And being a Qunari? You really compare being of a different race (our Qunari does not follow the Qun) to being the worst kind of criminal in Thedas?

[Bigdoser]

Snip

Pretty much this, necromancy is used in Nevarra cassandra's homeland they handle the peoples death rites even starkhaven knows of them people don't trust them and think they are bloody weird or who knows what they do with spirits and the dead, but they are a known as a trusted order that greatly respect the dead and enshrine them it what be called as mansions. XD 

 

You learn necromancy from a legal group called the Mortalitasi well the soul of one its part of the learning process gotta show you are serious! At most you are going to get a lot of grouchy faces and accusations but that's as far as its going to go. 

[Lebanese Dude]

So why is there no blood magic again? What logical reasons did BioWare give if any?

 

Your inquisitor and allies simply don't use blood magic.

That's a logical reason.

[Bigdoser]

As someone who normally plays and embraces blood mage spec to me necromancy sounds more interesting going by what gaspard said many people don't actually know much about it apart from the Mortalitasi. World of Thedas thank you lil yonce for posting this.

 

From WoT, "Nevarrans believe that when a soul crosses the Fade at death, it displaces a Fade spirit. Caspar Pentaghast's personal adviser, a Tevinter mage named Vitus Fabria, founded the Mortalitasi order of mages and first preached the idea. The Mortalitasi believe mummifying corpses to keep them intact provides a safe host for the displaced Fade spirits.

 

The mummified corpses are placed in massive, elaborate tomb, and the grandest of these come complete with gardens, bathhouses, and ballrooms. Wealthy Nevarrans begin construction on their own tombs while young, and add to them as they grow older. Outside of Nevarra City stands the Grand Necropolis. It appears almost as a city in itself, complete with mansions and great palaces, although it is utterly silent and kept only for the dead. It is common for nobles to take Mortalitasi adviser, and rumors persist of noble involvement in secret necromantic cults. Outside of Nevarra, inflated stories of ancestor worship and obsession with the dead have become Nevarran stereotypes."

---

"In Nevarra mages have more power than those in most Chantry-controlled nations. They are well organized, wealthy, and hold political sway. Nevarran mages push the boundaries of what magic can do and are arguably the most well schooled mages outside Tevinter. Among the special aspects of magic practice in Nevarra is the secretive Mortalitasi order. These mages are experts in the art of mummification, a burial practice unique to Nevarran culture. The order studies death extensively, and its members are known to experiment with necromancy. Members of the order rarely leave Nevarra. While they are well respected within the kingdom, mages outside the nation's borders fear them. Propaganda perpetuates the belief in some that the Mortalitasi are actually a death cult who carry out macbre rituals in the catacombs of their Grand Necropolis."

---

"My tenure as ambassador to the Nevarran court began, appropriately enough, with a death. I arrived to find my predecessor and intended mentor, Sifas Carrenter, had died in his sleep. Not unexpecetd, given his age. Instead of a cremation, the Mortalitasi were summoned for him, those gray-robed mages who seem to be everywhere in the palace. I was warned of the Mortalitasi in Starkhaven. Some cautioned me about their political prowess, learned from sitting at the feet of kings for generations. Others talked about the Mortalitasi like they were ghoulish surgeons in leather aprons, exhuming bodies by moonlight in their Grand Necropolis. The Mortalitasi who spoke to me was a polite, tawny-haired woman who smelled strongly of soap. She explained that Carrenter had earned the honor of being preserved and interred in the Necropolis. It seems a barbaric practice, but I knew that demanding a cremation would have made me - and more importantly, Starkhaven - lose face in Nevarra. Instead, my thanks seemed to please her. She described some of their rites. Though she wouldn't speak of the greater mysteries, even a glimpse into their arts put my hair on end. But I held my peace. The Mortalitasi are linked to the throne by blood. If I die in my office, like Carrenter, my body will be in their hands. In a land where death and politics are intertwined, one should be polite."

 

-- Galen Vedas, Starkhaven ambassador to Nevarra, 9:6 Dragon.

[Tyrimir]

quick questions if anyone can answer(thought this would be a good place to ask as this thread is about healing/support)

 

-are we able to go full support as mages meaning no offensive spells just buffs, barrier maybe some debuff etc.. in all ability slots?

 

-read about a 8 ability limit is that with passive and active abilities? could see a reasonable amount taken by actives(sorry if it's the wrong term I am talking about you activating the spell and it stays on your character)

 

-and is knight enchanter the default support mage? or do the other specializations have any beneficial support abilities?

 

as for my stance on healing, would have preferred to have it in the game(don't really see how potions are supposed to be healing you unless you're just taking it in and it makes you forget the pain even though it's there...,berserkgang anyone?,  and you would then rest to actually heal) but until I see some gameplay of a support mage I'm gonna stay hopeful that I can RP this game to my liking as a support mage if not then I guess I'm going shield and sword as a warrior.

 

and btw is healing in combat according to the lore impossible or just improbable? just seeing the mage in my head casting up barrier and meditating to cast a healing spell in a dire situation while his comrades frantically try to protect him from interruptions(think he would be able to meditate in this situation unless he hasn't really gone through any worth while magic training, as he is apparently not able to focus without being interrupted by the smallest things) just going through this in my mind as having a mage who is one of the few who actually knows healing magic and has through strict training magic training through his life.

 

thanks for any answers you might be able to give

[Shahadem]

Well after the farce that is MP and now this total about face on Healing after having paid for this game in full in advance and having waited so long for a DA game after the cancellation of DA2's expansion,it goes without saying that I'm not impressed at all with this decision either, the reasoning of being "fun" and using BlueSky phrases like "meaninful encounters/combat" does not sell it to me either.Just grateful for sites like CheatHappens and their trainers for when I don't want to be bored senseless with item management.

 

In game developer parlance, "meaningful" = "unnecessary restriction"

[Shahadem]

The codex says that creation magic creates and alters matter. It seems like the process of healing is as involving as a surgery procedure. By that definition your example doesn't really work.

 

 

That's the way all magical healing occurs. The mage uses magic to either create new cells or cause the cells to undergo rapid mitosis by supplying them with a constant amount of energy and matter. The question is just how active is the mage in bringing this about? Does the mage have carefully direct the creation of new cells/rapid mitosis, or is the mage simply a conduit and the injured body directs the healing process?

 

That's also why chemical healing is a lesser version of magical healing, and can't work at all if the healer has to actively direct the creation of new cells or the rapid mitosis.

[Shahadem]

The latter, but it doesn't matter, because the books are rubber-stamped by Bioware and describe the background of their default world-state. In this case the end of the 4th Blight. Therefore it's official lore.

 

Also the act of rubber stamping means approving without examining. Something which wasn't examined by Bioware can't be canon for Bioware.

[Star fury]

So you want every fight to be set to wipe the party? Because Bioware didn't want that. Try again.

Yes, I don't mind fight to be set to wipe the party cause they did exactly that in DAO and it was excellent.