I wonder if you could build like a support mage that mitigates dmg, no really looked at much to know tbh, see what happens be interesting to say the least
You could just place your mage behind your fighters and it will be extremely easy to cast everything unless biower makes another stupid decision to spawn enemies everywhere even in the middle and behind the party from already cleared locations. Thus eliminating all tactical aspects of combat.
This was never a problem in DA2 unless you were back at the game or think holding a line is tactical.
It was a huge problem in DA2 first time around. Especially if one tried to follow certain tactics learned in DAO, or any party system in general. Keeping your mages or long range fighters back. After subsequent playthroughs or trial and error then yes, you know where the waves will spawn as it is always the same place everytime.
Oh look, da2 apologist defends it's every single aspect again.This was never a problem in DA2 unless you were back at the game or think holding a line is tactical.
It was a huge problem in DA2 first time around. Especially if one tried to follow certain tactics learned in DAO, or any party system in general. Keeping your mages or long range fighters back. After subsequent playthroughs or trial and error then yes, you know where the waves will spawn as it is always the same place everytime.
It was a huge problem in DA2 first time around. Especially if one tried to follow certain tactics learned in DAO, or any party system in general. Keeping your mages or long range fighters back. After subsequent playthroughs or trial and error then yes, you know where the waves will spawn as it is always the same place everytime.
It's pointless to discuss it with him, he will defend da2 and bash DA:O.
Yes, how dare someone have an opinion and question the BSN hive mind.
That shouldn't be a tactic you used in DAO either. The game helped people build bad habits because it spawned stupid enemies far away from them who ran straight at them, but that's not tactical.
There was 0 need to learn spawns in DA2. The approach in terms of mobility is simple: always stay on your feet and move around the battlefield to keep a solid line between you and the enemy and pepper then with CC and CCC. This is actually why taunt is worthless except for bosses who are damage sponges and against whom mitigation matters.
With DAO being superior in terms of needing tactics thats a ridiculous statement to say it built bad habits and normal encounters. In real life, when you go through a narrow cave or through a building and you clear out enemies, enemies are only going to be in front of you, or were in high places or behind barricades, Of course the ones who are melee are gonna charge you.. Its plain common sense to keep your weaker party members back that attack from range.
There was a huge need to learn spawn points. Or after a while, and seeing how every fight was wave, needing to keep moving, but then that leads to really no tactics and eventually can turn into just a kite fest, which if there is any bad or cheap habit in MMOs or DA. its kiting.
It's pointless to discuss it with him, he will defend da2 and bash DA:O.
Yeah your probably right.
With DAO being superior in terms of needing tactics thats a ridiculous statement to say it built bad habits and normal encounters. In real life, when you go through a narrow cave or through a building and you clear out enemies, enemies are only going to be in front of you, or were in high places or behind barricades, Of course the ones who are melee are gonna charge you.. Its plain common sense to keep your weaker party members back that attack from range.
In real life, absolutely no one is so stupid and so willingly walk into a killzone unless they have absolutely no grasp of tactics, they're actively suicidal, or they're actually wild animals driven insane by ... something.
The most basic military moves involve simple positioning to avoid head-on attacks, such as flanking, pincers, encirclement, etc. There is no such thing as a pitched battle where two sides moronically charge each other until their decimated. The best example of a situation where people departed from this was WWI trench warfare - and that was a disgustingly ineffective tactic that did nothing more than lead to hundred of thousands of deaths for literally go meaningful gain.
DA:O "tactics" involve (i) avoid powerful builds that complete obviate the need for anything beyond just simple CC and mage nuking and (ii) depend on AI so stupid that it blindly charges to its death in a kill cone.
There was a huge need to learn spawn points. Or after a while, and seeing how every fight was wave, needing to keep moving, but then that leads to really no tactics and eventually can turn into just a kite fest, which if there is any bad or cheap habit in MMOs or DA. its kiting.
Staying on the move in battle is a basic tactic. It is literally one of the most fundamental aspects of a military engagement. This is what I mean by DA:O teaching people pure nonsense. In a real firefight, one of the most basic dangers is getting pinned down and then flanked. Yes, in DA:O, enemies would be stupid enough to charge straight at soliders in cover to get mowed down in a killzone, but killing idiots running at you is not a tactic.
It's pointless to discuss it with him, he will defend da2 and bash DA:O.
I'm not bashing DA:O, just calling out the people who put it on a pedestal. DA2 had insane design choices, incredibly poorly balanced combat, relied largely on fake difficulties at higher levels... and yet even so created something that at least required some thought compared to DA:O's two-step plan to challenges, namely, intentionally nerfing yourself by not taking powerful abilities and/or 3 mages and then sitting around and waiting for enemies to attack you blindly.
Da2 with it's random spawn mechanic eliminated all opportunity to hold formation and to have tactical fight. All fights even if you had formation in the beginning quickly degenerated in an unholy mess because of spawning enemies.With DAO being superior in terms of needing tactics thats a ridiculous statement to say it built bad habits and normal encounters. In real life, when you go through a narrow cave or through a building and you clear out enemies, enemies are only going to be in front of you, or were in high places or behind barricades, Of course the ones who are melee are gonna charge you.. Its plain common sense to keep your weaker party members back that attack from range.
There was a huge need to learn spawn points. Or after a while, and seeing how every fight was wave, needing to keep moving, but then that leads to really no tactics and eventually can turn into just a kite fest, which if there is any bad or cheap habit in MMOs or DA. its kiting.
Yeah your probably right.
Da2 with it's random spawn mechanic eliminated all opportunity to hold formation and to have tactical fight. All fights even if you had formation in the beginning quickly degenerated in an unholy mess because of spawning enemies.
yeah. You can't plan tactfully for what you dont know whats coming, Only after trial and error and memorization of the fight. Otherwise it is just more reacting instead of planning.
quick questions if anyone can answer(thought this would be a good place to ask as this thread is about healing/support)
-are we able to go full support as mages meaning no offensive spells just buffs, barrier maybe some debuff etc.. in all ability slots?
Yes. Assuming you take Knight Enchanter as a spec, you could take Fade Step (no upgrade), Fade Cloak (no upgrade), Ice Wall, Ice Mine, Barrier, Dispel, Mind Blast, and Resurgence. No damage dealing spells, just CC, support, and healing. Revival is another option, but I thought it sounded unnecessary since Resurgence is on the list, so I didn't include it...
-read about a 8 ability limit is that with passive and active abilities? could see a reasonable amount taken by actives(sorry if it's the wrong term I am talking about you activating the spell and it stays on your character)
You have access to 8 active abilities during combat, but passives are always in effect. You cannot swap abilities or weapons during combat, you have to wait until afterward to do that...
-and is knight enchanter the default support mage? or do the other specializations have any beneficial support abilities?
We don't know yet. KE doesn't actually have any support abilities that we know of except for the Resurgence Focus power. We have almost no details about the other specs, but the assumption is that Rift Mage is going to be focused on dealing damage.
Completely agree.I'm not bashing DA:O, just calling out the people who put it on a pedestal. DA2 had insane design choices, incredibly poorly balanced combat, relied largely on fake difficulties at higher levels...
Completely agree.
bro.... lol 
In real life, absolutely no one is so stupid and so willingly walk into a killzone unless they have absolutely no grasp of tactics, they're actively suicidal, or they're actually wild animals driven insane by ... something.
The most basic military moves involve simple positioning to avoid head-on attacks, such as flanking, pincers, encirclement, etc. There is no such thing as a pitched battle where two sides moronically charge each other until their decimated. The best example of a situation where people departed from this was WWI trench warfare - and that was a disgustingly ineffective tactic that did nothing more than lead to hundred of thousands of deaths for literally go meaningful gain.
While I agree with your actual point, I think military history is mostly a long account of people making really stupid mistakes, and sometimes other people exploiting them. Hannibal's famous envelopment mostly relied on the Romans walking into his kill zone. Age of Sail combat entirely consisted of drifting into each other's kill zone or running away. The First World War had people zerg rushing machine gun nests. Early Second World War air combat had Spitfires flying in a close formation that left them completely unaware of attacking 109s. Of course people learn a lot from these mistakes, but the mistakes keep getting made.
Also consider that in DA the enemy is often a poorly trained farmboy with a close combat weapon.
In real life, absolutely no one is so stupid and so willingly walk into a killzone unless they have absolutely no grasp of tactics, they're actively suicidal, or they're actually wild animals driven insane by ... something.
The most basic military moves involve simple positioning to avoid head-on attacks, such as flanking, pincers, encirclement, etc. There is no such thing as a pitched battle where two sides moronically charge each other until their decimated. The best example of a situation where people departed from this was WWI trench warfare - and that was a disgustingly ineffective tactic that did nothing more than lead to hundred of thousands of deaths for literally go meaningful gain.
DA:O "tactics" involve (i) avoid powerful builds that complete obviate the need for anything beyond just simple CC and mage nuking and (ii) depend on AI so stupid that it blindly charges to its death in a kill cone.
Staying on the move in battle is a basic tactic. It is literally one of the most fundamental aspects of a military engagement. This is what I mean by DA:O teaching people pure nonsense. In a real firefight, one of the most basic dangers is getting pinned down and then flanked. Yes, in DA:O, enemies would be stupid enough to charge straight at soliders in cover to get mowed down in a killzone, but killing idiots running at you is not a tactic.
"People zerg rushing machine guns in WWI" is a myth. 80% of soldiers were killed by artillery fire in WWI.While I agree with your actual point, I think military history is mostly a long account of people making really stupid mistakes, and sometimes other people exploiting them. Hannibal's famous envelopment mostly relied on the Romans walking into his kill zone. Age of Sail combat entirely consisted of drifting into each other's kill zone or running away. The First World War had people zerg rushing machine gun nests. Early Second World War air combat had Spitfires flying in a close formation that left them completely unaware of attacking 109s. Of course people learn a lot from these mistakes, but the mistakes keep getting made.
Also consider that in DA the enemy is often a poorly trained farmboy with a close combat weapon.
"People zerg rushing machine guns in WWI" is a myth. 80% of soldiers were killed by artillery fire in WWI.
I didn't actually say that machine guns were the biggest killer. But charging fortified positions and expecting success was a thing that happened, though I guess I was playing up misconceptions about the First World War a bit.
Point is that there were a whole heap of cases in that war of people failing to adapt tactics to new technologies, there was following that a whole heap of people learning from that and pioneering the future of combined arms warfare.
Just pasting my response from the previous thread for emphasis:
I like the sound of this change, because I hate instant deaths - and I hate encounters that are designed with death/resurrect in mind even more. I will wait to see how it turns out though.
No, "meaningful" in that every fight could potentially strip away some health from a finite pool until you can resupply at the next camp. When you have the means to completely regenerate your health after every fight, the fights themselves have negligible meaning because if you survived the fight it may as well have never happened.In game developer parlance, "meaningful" = "unnecessary restriction"
Not really. If we are looking at this from a narrative perspective rather than a gameplay one, potions can be crafted in bulk but they require access to alchemical equipment, raw materials, bottles, time and the alchemical knowledge to make it happen. They need to be distributed into the field and you also need to actually have a potion in order to use it. When you are out you are out.But somehow your storyline doesn't crumble if chemicals can heal better than magic and are more readily avaiable and easy to use and more instant?
All of the methods you suggest still leave BioWare with a party that is at full health after every fight. This doesn't solve the problem they were trying to solve, all it does is make healing less fun to use.This is not healing for fighting as it does nothing when you fight but heals you slowly after the fight is over.
They can even take the healing potions out of the game if they want.
Not really. If we are looking at this from a narrative perspective rather than a gameplay one, potions can be crafted in bulk but they require access to alchemical equipment, raw materials, bottles, time and the alchemical knowledge to make it happen. They need to be distributed into the field and you also need to actually have a potion in order to use it. When you are out you are out.
Healing magic on the other hand requires a mage who knows how to weild it and nothing more. It is taxing on the mage but requires no resource gathering or apparatus, can be done instantly and as often as the mage has stamina to do so. Healing magic is a lot more powerful, but potions are simply more practicle for combat use.
Absolutely. You can mass produce potions because anybody can use them. You can't mass produce healing mages.
Ugh, DA:O's "hold a formation" is basically tank and spank. I don't get how that is more tactical than DA2's need to be constantly aware of the changing battlefield, reacting and repositioning. You actually need to think on the fly.
DA:I's additional mobility options like the chain grab, chain pull, flip back etc etc will be wasted on a static battlefield like DA:0's.
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