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[Treacherous J Slither]

Read Last Flight. It definitley shows a very strong link between blood magic and demons.

 

I'll check it out.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Fine I will quote Gaider for like the millionth time on this forum:

 

"Blood magic isn't inherently evil, but the temptation to do evil when you have the power to bend others to your will must be insidious." -David Gaider

 

"It's not corruption in the way that the Blight is a corruption... A lot of it is opinion and fear, [of] the things that a Blood Mage is capable of. Which, as we're moving forward, we'd like to show that a little bit more, especially the mind control. And it is based on people who have that kind of power, the ability to influence other people's minds, the temptation to misuse it is a corruption. That kind of power is corrupting, right? That's the danger, not a physical 'I suddenly turn to the dark side and my eyes have gone black' kind of corruption." David Gaider

 

Also

Cameron Lee:

 

Cameron: Blood magic is an interesting one. Pure blood magic in the lore of the game is really supposed to be a very evil power. In previous games it wasn't really perceived to be that way. We talked about it being that way in the lore, we'd talk about crazy mages who went down the blood magic route and how that would have nasty consequences. So in Inquisition if we can't bring that across, that consequence across then we won't do it. We're looking at a couple of different options that still give that quasi-evil kind of fantasy element without trying to go into the nitty gritty of blood magic conflicting with other elements, but we haven't landed on which one's going to be there.

 

I never said it was the Dark side of the force. However, it is the corruption of power in human nature that makes it corruptive.  If you have the ability to make other people do what you want them to do, it is an extremely temptive and corruptive temptation.  As Gaider says, you may start off doing it for their own interest and don't notice you are crossing a line.

 

Also, just read Last Flight.

 

This Cameron guy says that pure blood magic is supposed to be very evil in the lore. Except that according to this same lore blood magic isn't actually evil. Oh! Dilema!

[unclee]

This Cameron guy says that pure blood magic is supposed to be very evil in the lore. Except that according to this same lore blood magic isn't actually evil. Oh! Dilema!

 

While Lee is the producer on Dragon Age, it's best to err on the side of taking Gaider's word on story matters above others.

 

Also, those quotes were made way before the "World of Thedas" book was put out, which added a lot to the lore. Hell, some of the stuff in the book didn't even exist until the book was put out, so the lore on blood magic may have been adjusted since Lee made that statement. Though in this instance, what Gaider said lines up with what's in the WoT book.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Two most prominent uses for Blood Magic are:

 

1) Tearing the Veil - using Blood Magic may tear the Veil, either sending someone into the Fade (like Jowan can do in Redcliffe Castle questline in DA:O) or bringing something from the Fade - like many blood mages in DA2 do during combat. 

2) Controlling people - Blood Magic allows for direct domination of someone's body/mind - which is the most prominent and obvious violation of Chantry's most important rule - "Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him". Even one blood mage can control an entire nation - blood slaving a noble, who helps him reach the castle, where he takes control of a guard, who leads him to the king... And suddenly a whole nation becomes enslaved. 

Because the most popular use of Blood Magic directly violates the rule, the Chantry was based on, and is the main source of fear in non-magical people it can never be accepted by those who Inquisition is supposed to lead.

 

The 2 most prominent uses for blood magic are:

 

1) Being lyrium independent.

 

2) Being able to cast without interruption from Templar abilities.

 

Two things very useful for any mage.

 

I know full well what blood magic is capable of which is why i'm an advocate for it's use.

[Muspade]

Those are pretty poor reasons for practicing blood magic from a character perspective, considering how it'll affect people perception of your character significantly. 
#Opinion.

 

Also, you're 600% more likely to be killed on the spot and demons are more likely to seek you out and make you their host. 

[Shahadem]

Read Last Flight. It definitley shows a very strong link between blood magic and demons.

 

And it's incredibly wrong.

 

Play Dragon Age 2, that explains why there is zero link between blood magic and demons.

 

Blood magic is simply using blood instead of lyrium for allowing a mage to transpose a larger amount of Fade over an area of the real world than the mage would otherwise be able to do. That's also why it allows you to control people, you use the blood in their body to transpose the Fade directly onto them. Scary stuff.

 

Any mage who has ever got a cut realized very quickly that they were able to use their blood instead of lyrium. This was all explained by Anders in DA2. Merril needed to learn about blood magic from a demon because she is the stupidest mage in all of Thedas. And that seems to fit her character in DA2. And to support the contention that she is the stupidest mage is the fact that she never bothered to learn any healing magic despite the fact that she was going to be the next keeper and that she knew Anders for years and was constantly being taken on journeys where everyone, including her lover, were getting injured all the time and could have really benefitted from some healing magic.

 

Demons can exit the Fade even without using lyrium or blood, depending on the strength of the Veil in the area they want to exit the Fade at. The only problem is that they can't exit the Fade themselves, they need another mage to do it for them. One such method is to simply possess the mage in the Fade, but demons seem to be really poor judges at figuring out which mages are naturally powerful enough to allow them to do it without lyrium or blood.

[Roninbarista]

Archer/Artificer/Subterfuge looks like it's going to be death incarnate.

I was thinking archer/sabatoge/subterfuge as a triad of death abilities, and the specialization optional.

[TheEternalStudent]

Avernus summoned more than he could control per his commanders orders. That is what happened at Soldiers Peak.

Yeah, all the blood and death (which is in part, fueled by blood magic) weakened the Fade, allowing them to more fully exert their power. Blood magic makes demons harder to control, because they can use it to enter our realm more completely.

You're talking about Necromancers individually, and yes, that would be a curb-stomp battle for templars. I just don't think the Templars could do much to prevent the practice.

Bioware, DLC in Nevarra please.

[wcholcombe]

While Lee is the producer on Dragon Age, it's best to err on the side of taking Gaider's word on story matters above others.

Also, those quotes were made way before the "World of Thedas" book was put out, which added a lot to the lore. Hell, some of the stuff in the book didn't even exist until the book was put out, so the lore on blood magic may have been adjusted since Lee made that statement. Though in this instance, what Gaider said lines up with what's in the WoT book.

Umm no, the quotes from Lee and Gaider were all made this past year.

And they basically agree as Gaider is implying that the reason blood magic was removed is they haven't properly incorporated the negative aspects of it.

As for lore, the lore has always been very negative on using blood magic, it is the gameplay that hasn't agreed with the lore.

[wcholcombe]

And it's incredibly wrong.

Play Dragon Age 2, that explains why there is zero link between blood magic and demons.

Blood magic is simply using blood instead of lyrium for allowing a mage to transpose a larger amount of Fade over an area of the real world than the mage would otherwise be able to do. That's also why it allows you to control people, you use the blood in their body to transpose the Fade directly onto them. Scary stuff.

Any mage who has ever got a cut realized very quickly that they were able to use their blood instead of lyrium. This was all explained by Anders in DA2. Merril needed to learn about blood magic from a demon because she is the stupidest mage in all of Thedas. And that seems to fit her character in DA2. And to support the contention that she is the stupidest mage is the fact that she never bothered to learn any healing magic despite the fact that she was going to be the next keeper and that she knew Anders for years and was constantly being taken on journeys where everyone, including her lover, were getting injured all the time and could have really benefitted from some healing magic.

Demons can exit the Fade even without using lyrium or blood, depending on the strength of the Veil in the area they want to exit the Fade at. The only problem is that they can't exit the Fade themselves, they need another mage to do it for them. One such method is to simply possess the mage in the Fade, but demons seem to be really poor judges at figuring out which mages are naturally powerful enough to allow them to do it without lyrium or blood.

Oh yes, by all means let's ignore the lore expanding book that was approved by the game world's creators. Blood magic has a direct connection to demons. Also there is a difference between using blood for power and casting actual blood magic spells. Again read up on Gaider.

Oh and let's also ignore the multiple comments by Gaider that DA2 did a very pore job of accurately portraying blood magic and that DAO had none of the lore negatives of blood magic.

[Shahadem]

Oh yes, by all means let's ignore the lore expanding book that was approved by the game world's creators. Blood magic has a direct connection to demons. Also there is a difference between using blood for power and casting actual blood magic spells. Again read up on Gaider.

Oh and let's also ignore the multiple comments by Gaider that DA2 did a very pore job of accurately portraying blood magic and that DAO had none of the lore negatives of blood magic.

 

When it comes to a video game series, the video games that all players experience create lore that takes absolute precedence over any work of fiction rubber stamped by the company which not all players experience

 

If a game dev wants something to be lore in their game, it needs to be lore in the game, not in an external book or website (hello Destiny). If they want to make a series, then they need to keep the lore in those games consistent between each game. While it is fine for games to develop and expand on lore, they can't have contradictory lore. The entire point of making a video game series is that the games create a full mural instead of a single picture. But to create a mural, each part needs to work together to create one whole. 3 different pictures don't create one mural, they create 3 different pictures.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Umm no, the quotes from Lee and Gaider were all made this past year.

And they basically agree as Gaider is implying that the reason blood magic was removed is they haven't properly incorporated the negative aspects of it.

As for lore, the lore has always been very negative on using blood magic, it is the gameplay that hasn't agreed with the lore.

 

They haven't properly incorporated the negative aspects of blood magic because there are none.

 

Aside from it being punishable by death of course.

[Medhia_Nox]

@JSlither:  Self-mutiliation is all the rage.

 

Also - didn't read it - but Last Flight makes it very clear that demons just love to cramp a blood mage's style far more than regular mages. 

 

No "negatives" is your head canon alone.

[Zjarcal]

Are you playing "How to annoy our fans this week"?

This week's episode is dedicated to you.

[wcholcombe]

They haven't properly incorporated the negative aspects of blood magic because there are none.

Aside from it being punishable by death of course.

By all means keep ignoring the comments by the devs and the lore since before DAO came out to keep your meaningless head cannon intact.

[Lumix19]

By all means keep ignoring the comments by the devs and the lore since before DAO came out to keep your meaningless head cannon intact.

What lore and dev comments states specifically that there is an inherent price to blood magic? I always thought that the reason blood magic was dangerous was because it was so powerful and there are few people who can appropriately handle such power.

[wcholcombe]

The comments I posted above by David Gaider, the Table top RPG, Last Flight.

[Lumix19]

The comments I posted above by David Gaider, the Table top RPG, Last Flight.

But the quotes by Gaider directly state that Blood magic is inherently evil, it's just that the power that comes from usage can be used for ill purposes. It's not like Maho from L5r. Maybe I'm not quite understanding what this argument is about....

[Treacherous J Slither]

By all means keep ignoring the comments by the devs and the lore since before DAO came out to keep your meaningless head cannon intact.

 

Show me these comments please. If there are horrible consequences inherent to blood magic use i'd like to know about them.

[wcholcombe]

He is also stating that its use has a corruptibe influence through temptation.

Last Flight is the main place a lot of this is coming from but it is also the first novel that has detailed life as a blood mage. The one who teaches the character blood magic makes it clear that there is a price to using blood magic. The demons in your head all the time.

[Treacherous J Slither]

But the quotes by Gaider directly state that Blood magic is inherently evil, it's just that the power that comes from usage can be used for ill purposes. It's not like Maho from L5r. Maybe I'm not quite understanding what this argument is about....

 

You're familiar with that too? What's your favorite clan? I like the Dragon.

 

I gotta read up on Maho.

[Treacherous J Slither]

He is also stating that its use has a corruptibe influence through temptation.

Last Flight is the main place a lot of this is coming from but it is also the first novel that has detailed life as a blood mage. The one who teaches the character blood magic makes it clear that there is a price to using blood magic. The demons in your head all the time.

 

Wait what? Demons constantly in your mind? Like that poor kid Fenriel?

 

That's gotta be bs.

[Lumix19]

He is also stating that its use has a corruptibe influence through temptation.
Last Flight is the main place a lot of this is coming from but it is also the first novel that has detailed life as a blood mage. The one who teaches the character blood magic makes it clear that there is a price to using blood magic. The demons in your head all the time.

I interpeted that as meaning that people are tempted to do evil things with power because they're flawed. I haven't read Last Flight yet though, I really should.

You're familiar with that too? What's your favorite clan? I like the Dragon.

I gotta read up on Maho.

Yeah somewhat. I like the Scorpion though the Spider is pretty interesting. Maho gives you Taint if I remember correctly and is directly linked to Jigoku regardless of intent. A little bit different from blood magic in DA I thought.

[wcholcombe]

[quote name="Lumix19" post="17525911" timestamp="1413514241"]



I interpeted that as meaning that people are tempted to do evil things with power because they're flawed. I haven't read Last Flight yet though, I really should.


/quote]

It isn't so much flaw as it is the natural temptation of that level of power on anyone.

And yes, Last Flight is very revealing on Blood Mages.

[Treacherous J Slither]

@Lumix:

 

I Googled Maho and that stuff is terrible. At least there are ways to come back from it though.