1390 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

Pretty confident that "lifeforce draining spell" registers more than a 0 on the "Oh dear god, make the pain stop!" scale.

 

That's not what I meant. I was saying that, according to information from WoT, is it possible to have people survive Blood Magic spells that would normally kill them, if the application caused a significant amount of pain?

 

 

The big difference I think is between cutscene BM and combat BM, but what we see BM used for as an NPC/cutscene thing relates to really sophisticated rituals - the Joining, the Dark Ritual, etc. 

 

We've also seen BM used to destroy barriers in place of Lyrium, knock a group of several Templars unconscious, and create a flesh golem. All of these were done with a simple slice across the palm, without WoT's "pain" rule being observed in the slightest. There was also, again, the BM used in Last Flight that did not acknowledge this.

[lolwut]

Which Irony - my post didn't contain any...you just want to rile me up, don't you?

 

Thanks, but read it again - it makes sense (maybe even to you, if you read it again...moron!)

 

greetings LAX

 

The irony is that 99% of combat in DAO and DA2 is nothing but a timesink, because it doesn't matter how badly you do, as long as you manage to survive it, you're completely healed up afterwards and it's like nothing happened. The combat has no effect on the game at all beyond giving you a few more XP.

[standardpack]

I'll just be taking the 'wait and see' route for now.  I have concerns about this as well but my biggest concern is how often I need to return to camp is going to play out, so if it turns out that the need to return to camp becomes an unnecessarily tedious POS then i'll consider some criticism against this justified.  Not sure if I should hope for the best or expect the worse

[TristynTrine]

Darn kind of wanted to be a healer aw

[Ordeth]

My (Lack of) Qualifications

I played Dragon Age: Origins on Normal and considered dropping it to Easy on several occasions. I played Dragon Age II on Normal and could not beat the High Dragon in Act 3 because Isabela, Merrill, Aveline, and Double-Daggers Hawke is possibly not an optimized combat build.

After reading this I have little faith in the explaination. Healing & CC was a big part on harder difficuilties.

It just seems to have been "consolised" and a huge amount of stratagy removed from it. Will there be spell combos?(Had a quick search and didnt find anything) Looks a bit like nerfing the game for profit so anyone can jump in and run around pushing buttons.

 

DA:O had mana and stamina regeration, you run out of mana and you cant heal. No infitite potions to replenish it either. If you let your healer die in a big fight you were often screwed so you had to make sure you kept an eye on each fight and kept them alive. From the gameplay videos it just looks like lets all DPS with our new flashy moves.

 

I was hoping for another good game from the lines of Baldurs Gate / Torment / DA:O.

Hopefully I am proven wrong, as I was really looking forward to this game. But I'll just wait for the reviews.

[Elhanan]

After reading this I have little faith in the explaination. Healing & CC was a big part on harder difficuilties.
It just seems to have been "consolised" and a huge amount of stratagy removed from it. Will there be spell combos?(Had a quick search and didnt find anything) Looks a bit like nerfing the game for profit so anyone can jump in and run around pushing buttons.
 
DA:O had mana and stamina regeration, you run out of mana and you cant heal. No infitite potions to replenish it either. If you let your healer die in a big fight you were often screwed so you had to make sure you kept an eye on each fight and kept them alive. From the gameplay videos it just looks like lets all DPS with our new flashy moves.
 
I was hoping for another good game from the lines of Baldurs Gate / Torment / DA:O.
Hopefully I am proven wrong, as I was really looking forward to this game. But I'll just wait for the reviews.

Instead of Healing during and after combat frequently with spells, one now applies shielding in the form of Barrier and any like spells. Nothing in this has been 'consolized'; simply moving from curative to prevention. And I played DA2 on Hard w/o Anders, so no MMO Healer was required.

[VilhoDog13]

After reading this I have little faith in the explaination. Healing & CC was a big part on harder difficuilties.
It just seems to have been "consolised" and a huge amount of stratagy removed from it. Will there be spell combos?(Had a quick search and didnt find anything) Looks a bit like nerfing the game for profit so anyone can jump in and run around pushing buttons.

DA:O had mana and stamina regeration, you run out of mana and you cant heal. No infitite potions to replenish it either. If you let your healer die in a big fight you were often screwed so you had to make sure you kept an eye on each fight and kept them alive. From the gameplay videos it just looks like lets all DPS with our new flashy moves.

I was hoping for another good game from the lines of Baldurs Gate / Torment / DA:O.
Hopefully I am proven wrong, as I was really looking forward to this game. But I'll just wait for the reviews.

First of all, there's more CC in this game than in any DA game previously.

Secondly, there may have been a finite number of potions, technically, but in DA:O there was no cooldown for using them. Keep buying them and you'll have a nice stock. If you're using all your potions in DA:O, you're doing something wrong.

There were party combinations that didn't require a healer, and it was still possible to do well. In DA2, I had Sebastian, Isabela, and Fenris. There was so much DPS enemies died left and right before my mage could react.

If you want to know specific abilities then look up the Skill Tree thread. They've posted almost entire trees for mages, rogues, and several trees for warriors.

The new combat is stepping away from healing- for the reason of minimizing game frustration and adding balance.

Instead of the enemy having chain CC (I was playing DA2 and my mage was chain stunned for days), which causes incredible frustration, they're wanting to focus less on that by removing healing. The reason heavy CC, and powerful one-shot abilities were in the game were to balance out the incredible healing that could be done. The devs would have to take into account the extra HP you'd have by healing. One-shotting (or massive damage) abilities made you react by healing.

This new method isn't about reacting, but rather preparing and preventing. You'll have more control over your character (enemies will chain CC far less often), therefore it'll be less frustrating to fight certain enemies.

THAT is the main reason they changed the system. Not to "consolize" anything.

[Xilizhra]

When was anyone stunned on DA2? I barely recall any.

[Wulfram]

When was anyone stunned on DA2? I barely recall any.

 

IIRC on release all attacks had a knockback/stun based on percentage of hitpoints in the attack and a STR based resistance.  But it got nerfed in a patch to be fairly irrelevant

[VilhoDog13]

When was anyone stunned on DA2? I barely recall any.

By stupid dragonlings. They'd knockdown my character and I couldn't heal for ****. Had to hope my DPS was high enough.

In DA:O - there were stuns for days.

[sylvanaerie]

By stupid dragonlings. They'd knockdown my character and I couldn't heal for ****. Had to hope my DPS was high enough.

In DA:O - there were stuns for days.

And spiders and Mabari

[VilhoDog13]

And spiders and Mabari

Oh my damn, that's right. Totally forgot about them - I vaguely remember spiders. There wasn't a ton of Mabari in the game. But the spiders...

[Xilizhra]

IIRC on release all attacks had a knockback/stun based on percentage of hitpoints in the attack and a STR based resistance.  But it got nerfed in a patch to be fairly irrelevant

Ahh. I didn't get DA2 on release because I only had a crappy laptop, so I must have bought the game after the nerf.

 

 

By stupid dragonlings. They'd knockdown my character and I couldn't heal for ****. Had to hope my DPS was high enough.

In DA:O - there were stuns for days.

 

And spiders and Mabari

Overwhelm didn't exist in DA2.

[Hammerstorm]

dragon age is not dragon age without health spells. like a healer in dragon age origins and dragon age 2 did they all die or just quit using health spells? I used to buy alot of potions in dragon age 2 just before a big battle because I would not have survived without the potions for example before the arishok battle I spent alot of money on potion that are 200 -300 and by the time the end of the mission I i was down to like 10 or 20 and trying to conserve as much as I can the same for me with the high dragon in dragon age 2 and the templar and mage war as well. this was on easy.   I would be very disappointed in the next dragon age game if we don't have healing spells and we don't have a unlimited healing potions that we can carry. I think  we should have made the healing potions more expensive to discourage us from carry alot of healing potions plus does potions cost in game money. if the potions cost in game money then what if the we don't have that kind of money before when we see a potion table sitting before the big fight.  I think it is very unorthodox to take out healing spells in the game which is part of the dragon age universe. I was planing on being a healing mage as well in this game. please bioware before you take something out like this please ask  me about it first meaning dragon age fans. I  still love you bioware and love your games and will still buy from you but please include healing spells in the next dragon age game. I mean this post in the most respectively way I can bioware. 

 

I don't know if this have already been answered, but this is what I have understand.

 

The reason that you (and I) was forced to buy lot of potion was because the game was build around the fact that we could in theory have unlimited HP because of potion and healing, there for the enemy had to be strong enough to kill us instantly/grind us down with waves.

 

Now that we have a limited pool of hp, the creators can plan the battle around that and make it more fluent. And don't have to use cheap tricks like an overpowered Qunari with big weapons or waves of sky jumping enemies. 

[Elhanan]

.... 
Overwhelm didn't exist in DA2.

But the Stun effect might have been there for those creatures; uncertain.

[Elhanan]

I don't know if this have already been answered, but this is what I have understand.
 
The reason that you (and I) was forced to buy lot of potion was because the game was build around the fact that we could in theory have unlimited HP because of potion and healing, there for the enemy had to be strong enough to kill us instantly/grind us down with waves.
 
Now that we have a limited pool of hp, the creators can plan the battle around that and make it more fluent. And don't have to use cheap tricks like an overpowered Qunari with big weapons or waves of sky jumping enemies. 

Except we still have creatures with tons of health (eg; bears), OP items (eg; great shields that seem to be invulnerable from frontal attacks), and waves of sky jumping foes (eg; Dragonlings).



But the Health system is still much the same: prevention vs curative, unlimited resupplies, Focus vs Group Heal, etc. Personally, I do not foresee a problem for me.

[VilhoDog13]

Ahh. I didn't get DA2 on release because I only had a crappy laptop, so I must have bought the game after the nerf.



Overwhelm didn't exist in DA2.

I just finished a DA2 game a couple weeks ago - stun effects are still there.

[Doominike]

About "invulnerable" enemy shields, that's what they said about guardians in ME3 too and it turned out you could still easily kill them up front

[KoorahUK]

Except we still have creatures with tons of health (eg; bears), OP items (eg; great shields that seem to be invulnerable from frontal attacks), and waves of sky jumping foes (eg; Dragonlings).

Haven't seen any evidence of wave combat, which vid were the Dragonlings in?

The other things you mention are related to the overall combat redesign. As creatures don't scale, you need to take on the bear when you are capable of doing so. This is very different from earlier games where the massive hp pool was to counter the players access to healing.

The tower shield is indeed invulnerable from frontal attacks including magic ones, but this is to force tactical use of positioning or specific ability use.

I've been a vocal advocate of this change to healing because I can see the advantages to combat design it can bring across the board. Can't wait.

[seraphymon]

First of all, there's more CC in this game than in any DA game previously.

Secondly, there may have been a finite number of potions, technically, but in DA:O there was no cooldown for using them. Keep buying them and you'll have a nice stock. If you're using all your potions in DA:O, you're doing something wrong.

There were party combinations that didn't require a healer, and it was still possible to do well. In DA2, I had Sebastian, Isabela, and Fenris. There was so much DPS enemies died left and right before my mage could react.

If you want to know specific abilities then look up the Skill Tree thread. They've posted almost entire trees for mages, rogues, and several trees for warriors.

The new combat is stepping away from healing- for the reason of minimizing game frustration and adding balance.

Instead of the enemy having chain CC (I was playing DA2 and my mage was chain stunned for days), which causes incredible frustration, they're wanting to focus less on that by removing healing. The reason heavy CC, and powerful one-shot abilities were in the game were to balance out the incredible healing that could be done. The devs would have to take into account the extra HP you'd have by healing. One-shotting (or massive damage) abilities made you react by healing.

This new method isn't about reacting, but rather preparing and preventing. You'll have more control over your character (enemies will chain CC far less often), therefore it'll be less frustrating to fight certain enemies.

THAT is the main reason they changed the system. Not to "consolize" anything.

potions did have a cooldown. The problem stemmed from having potions of different levels, each with its separate cooldowns.

 

I dont really know how frustrating things were for you in terms of healing. I encountered little to no CC for my mages in DA2, Whether it was when it was first released or after patched. in DAO, there was much more frustration indeed, especially with those debuffs that didn't allow the target to be healed. However it was abilities enemies were using. It was strategy having to be overcome on the fly.

 

Its funny you mention for balance and less frustration.  Well it really remains to be fully seen.  But if anything, there is more frustration due to needless task to go back to a camp time and again, because no matter how good someone is. one will always take damage.

[Elhanan]

Haven't seen any evidence of wave combat, which vid were the Dragonlings in?

The other things you mention are related to the overall combat redesign. As creatures don't scale, you need to take on the bear when you are capable of doing so. This is very different from earlier games where the massive hp pool was to counter the players access to healing.

The tower shield is indeed invulnerable from frontal attacks including magic ones, but this is to force tactical use of positioning or specific ability use.

I've been a vocal advocate of this change to healing because I can see the advantages to combat design it can bring across the board. Can't wait.

The waves thing was more of a jest, as numerous Dragonlings continued to appear and appear, and continued pursuit of the surviving character for quite a while. And they are Dragons; hence the Sky dropping ref. Hence, the wink.

However, as scaling is not present as a rule, a bear with the health of some small cities is going to present a bit of trouble for the region until the Inq is powerful enough to hunt it. And if mundane shields offer invulnerability, how much more of an obstacle are enchanted shields going to present. I get the notion that this will be more tactical, but an ice spell combined with fire would seem to cause some problems for the wielder of such a device; even separately, metal would seem to transfer heat fairly well, or freeze to his grip, etc.

I believe I will enjoy the new Health system, but expect to see some issues with it discussed in the first weeks.

[VilhoDog13]

potions did have a cooldown. The problem stemmed from having potions of different levels, each with its separate cooldowns.

I dont really know how frustrating things were for you in terms of healing. I encountered little to no CC for my mages in DA2, Whether it was when it was first released or after patched. in DAO, there was much more frustration indeed, especially with those debuffs that didn't allow the target to be healed. However it was abilities enemies were using. It was strategy having to be overcome on the fly.

Its funny you mention for balance and less frustration. Well it really remains to be fully seen. But if anything, there is more frustration due to needless task to go back to a camp time and again, because no matter how good someone is. one will always take damage.

You're right. There was a cooldown. What was it, 10 seconds? 5? It was an abysmal amount. Compare that to DA2 cooldown which was much longer.

I don't know why there should be a cooldown to chugging potions to begin with. It's a bottle of liquid. Unless you don't know how to uncork a bottle, you should get immediate access.

I never said there wasn't any CC in DA:O though - there was plenty. But the combat was slow and lethargic. It wasn't strategy coming out of a stub lock. It's never strategy dealing with loss of control over your character. Prevention of it, sure.

It's like what they're trying to do in League of Legends - less "click on character and they're stunned," and more "hope my ability hit based on where I thought they were headed." They're phasing out that combat style because you can't counter it - it just ends up frustrating the player.

They said there is going to be fast travel to these camps. There are also going to be places where you can refresh your potion supply. Running back to camp isn't going to be as big of a problem as you might think - devs have stated this fairly clearly. But if you're on harder difficulties - sure. That could be a pain. But what do you expect on hard/nightmare, a cake walk?

[X Equestris]

About "invulnerable" enemy shields, that's what they said about guardians in ME3 too and it turned out you could still easily kill them up front

Yeah, it looks like warriors can do damage to those sorts of enemies from the front, it's just substantially less than from the flank or rear.

[seraphymon]

You're right. There was a cooldown. What was it, 10 seconds? 5? It was an abysmal amount. Compare that to DA2 cooldown which was much longer.

I don't know why there should be a cooldown to chugging potions to begin with. It's a bottle of liquid. Unless you don't know how to uncork a bottle, you should get immediate access.

I never said there wasn't any CC in DA:O though - there was plenty. But the combat was slow and lethargic. It wasn't strategy coming out of a stub lock. It's never strategy dealing with loss of control over your character. Prevention of it, sure.

It's like what they're trying to do in League of Legends - less "click on character and they're stunned," and more "hope my ability hit based on where I thought they were headed." They're phasing out that combat style because you can't counter it - it just ends up frustrating the player.

They said there is going to be fast travel to these camps. There are also going to be places where you can refresh your potion supply. Running back to camp isn't going to be as big of a problem as you might think - devs have stated this fairly clearly. But if you're on harder difficulties - sure. That could be a pain. But what do you expect on hard/nightmare, a cake walk?

No idea. Never really counted the cooldown time. DA2 though along with healing was kinda a huge change, but thats cause there was three things affecting the cooldown. Longer cooldown times, only one universal potion and because the combat was soo much faster, it made the cooldown seem way longer.

 

That really depends on the abilities really. I mean something  like an aoe is something you hope hits in order to stun, but things that are single target its automatically a homing attack it seems. Not sure how it really is in DAI, but if the player can use a single spell that cant miss, enemies should have a similar advantage as well. So being stunned is just something that should be overcome. Typically in DAO if such things happened, I always had  force field, or sometimes  doing a stun or a freeze would  negate those takedown abilities  from mabari. Just examples. Hopefully it is alot more cleaned up in DAI when it comes to dealing with certain CCs.

 

Fast travel helps sure as well as tables. But tables like those  before a boss room defeats the purpose doesn't it?  They said they want each fight to matter in a way that doesnt have enemies deal huge amounts of dmg assuming play and enemy level are equal or so. But if the small fights only serve to make one go back and heal up before big bad or have the table right there it is almost like what is the point of no out-of-combat healing? Or rather a limited amount?    What I think would have been a better choice, is to have potion limitation, have the no in combat healing aside from what there already is like the focus one.. But have outside healing spells in order to  avoid the frustrations of heading back. 

 

Maybe my suggestion isn't the best method, but I think there exists a better way to achieve what they want  but also avoid situations like this, especially for higher difficulties where it will most likely frustrate players. After all, now there is an achievement for nightmare playthrough and I know some players will want to do it just to get the achievement, even if it isn't on their first playthrough.

 

All of this is still time spent  with the need to travel back and restock. Even at minimal it will still interrupt the flow. It is more realistic but this is one of those things where the realistic sense isnt needed.

[sylvanaerie]

Oh my damn, that's right. Totally forgot about them - I vaguely remember spiders. There wasn't a ton of Mabari in the game. But the spiders...

 

Oh and those werewolves in the Brecelian Forest Ruins, the stealthy ones.