52 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

Not this again.
 

 
 
Anyone want to make a drinking game out of this?  I don't drink anymore, but I'd be happy to buy the booze for everyone else...

im game XD Bring it

[Realmzmaster]

So Bioware/DICE/EA should use up resources on producing a toolkit for a small percentage of the audience. The point is that most of the sales are on consoles. A toolkit only benefits PC users. The largest percentage of the audience do not game on a PC.

 

Also Bioware has not always provided modding tools BG1 and BG2 had no toolkits. NWN had the Aurora toolkit, but NWN game engine was built on an Internet model for running an MMOG where the gamers would create the content. The single player campaign was added on. BG1 and BG2 were intended as single player games from the start not multiplayer. So no toolkit needed to be provided.

 

Also all the sales for those games were on the PC so giving gamers a toolkit to play made economical sense. That reality has changed dramatically. Consoles are now the dominating factor. So it now makes more sense to put any extra money in the base game or making DLC that every platform can use.

 

Let's lay to rest the argument about losing DLC sales. If that were the case Bethesda should not be giving away a toolkit because it would hurt their DLC sales which does not appear to be the case. 

 

I prefer that Bioware use the resources it has to making a great base game and some excellent DLC that benefits all platforms.

[Applepie_Svk]

Do you remember of how many things in previous DA games were simply fixed by moders ? And not just fixing stuff, but also improving, like highres textures, improved looks and atmospheres, weapons and armors...

[TobyJake]

One thing that does concern me...(old programmer) is that Inquisition is in a rock and a hard place. Console vs PC. Mods are right up a PC's area of expertise.

NWN and Baldur's Gate were PC games. And Elder Scrolls were first on the PC. I don't want to go to war with console players, but the focus is so different.

I would hate to see Inquisition ported to the PC, not the other way around. The Bioware videos were mostly console generated. Only recently they showed mouse and KB. The guy didn't seem to have much of a clue either.

I will wait and see, but not hopeful. Make it so, Biowarre!!

[Fast Jimmy]

Let's lay to rest the argument about losing DLC sales. If that were the case Bethesda should not be giving away a toolkit because it would hurt their DLC sales which does not appear to be the case.

While I agree with your entire post, I did want to pull out and point to this section.

One, Bioware began embracing technology that would make modding tools exceptionally harder to create before Skyrim came out. Before that, TES games were popular, but not WILDLY successful.

But, perhaps even more relevant, the success of Bethesda would not, inherently mean that Bioware would change the view that a mod kit would hurt DLC sales (if they did in fact have that viewpoint). Evidence for or against a particular mindset does not mean anyone with an opposing viewpoint will automatically update their opinion, particularly if there is no active campaign to promote this information.


But that is all a bit moot, as Bioware has repeatedly said the lack of a toolkit HURTS their DLC sales (at least on PC). Mod kits keep people playing, which means Bioware has a longer calendar timeframe with which to release viable DLC (something I know YOU know, but which bears repeating). It just doesn't seem to hurt as much to cover the significant costs of overcoming their third party license and engine issues they face today.

[Realmzmaster]

@Fast Jimmy,

 

I agree with you. If mods were allowed on the consoles I could see Bioware or any other developer developing modkits. Many posters like to point out that Bethesda releases a modkit with ES games, what they do not state is that the modkit is basically the same one used since Morrowind with tweaks. In fact Bethesda is still using the Gamebryo engine with modifications . Skyrim engine is named Creation but has its roots firmly in Gameboyo. The same way that Bioware used the Eclipse engine of DAO and modified it to make the Lycium engine for DA2.

 

So Bethesda did not have to create a new modkit simply update the existing one. Bioware on the other hand would have to create a new modkit for DAI since the series is using a new engine.

[Jasuke34]

I honestly would love to see eventually the possibility of mods created for PC games being available for download on consoles.

 

Like, obviously modding a game on a ps4 or xbox one is next to impossible, but if like nexus files were available for download on the consoles that would greatly open up the modding community for these kinds of games.

[I Miss Minsc]

Look at the Char models from Dragon's Age: Origins,   now look at the BRAND NEW  char models for DA:I,  it is obvious this is written to not test the "power" of a console.

 

Also, console'rs will be more inclined to accept what they are told/given/offered as far as games go, additionally, they will pay MORE for a game than a seasoned PC Gamer would do.

 

Finally, and this is a BIG one, (Impossible to mod) equals Guaranteed acceptance of ALL DLC, and finally, "If it works on one console, it works on ALL OF THEM."

 

These are the main reasons, ea/Bioware are slowly abandoning the PC market, the console'rs are a MUCH softer target.

 

This began with games made SOLELY for the PC (Madden Football  TIger Woods, et al.) now ONLY made for the console'rs.

 

Check out what they say about mod support on "The Witcher 3" site, Also look at the in-game Graphics.

 

I will NEVER buy another game on the PC which is not specifically sold with (we support the modding community) which Bioware Did originally.

 

"As an ASIDE"  Latest SIM CITY GAME (Requires Online ONLY! proven FALSE Via a MOD fixed in a patch then abandoned as far as I can tell.) (Can't Make BIg Cities! "your pc is too weak" proven FALSE Via a MOD, doubtful they will patch this in.).

 

The DOWNSIDE of all this EA sponsored (online componants) is now when something is bad/good  the news travels FAST and cannot be controlled, THIS IS WHY developers make the Reviewers WAIT FOR THE DAY OF RELEASE for their reviews, and so few DEMOS of late.    COD proved if you can get them to PRE ORDER, the game doesn't have to be even close to perfect.

 

All of the above is true and "checkable", why not open one's mind and try to do that.

[Fast Jimmy]

 

Finally, and this is a BIG one, (Impossible to mod) equals Guaranteed acceptance of ALL DLC, and finally, "If it works on one console, it works on ALL OF THEM."

 

These are the main reasons, ea/Bioware are slowly abandoning the PC market, the console'rs are a MUCH softer target.

 

I'm having trouble understanding what you wrote. I think you are saying in the first sentence that Bioware is against mods because they don't work on consoles? Although I'm confused by "guaranteed acceptance of ALL DLC" in there as well. 

 

Also, what do you mean the console market is "softer" in that second sentence? Do they use moisturizing products more diligently than PC players?

[Fast Jimmy]

@Fast Jimmy,

 

I agree with you. If mods were allowed on the consoles I could see Bioware or any other developer developing modkits. Many posters like to point out that Bethesda releases a modkit with ES games, what they do not state is that the modkit is basically the same one used since Morrowind with tweaks. In fact Bethesda is still using the Gamebryo engine with modifications . Skyrim engine is named Creation but has its roots firmly in Gameboyo. The same way that Bioware used the Eclipse engine of DAO and modified it to make the Lycium engine for DA2.

 

So Bethesda did not have to create a new modkit simply update the existing one. Bioware on the other hand would have to create a new modkit for DAI since the series is using a new engine.

 

Exactly. 

 

Although, conversely, I do think there would be the ability to do this if modding was more easily monetized, a topic I've talked about before. Bioware as a developer could bundle, polish and release a collection of the most popular mods as a DLC for consoles, giving a cut of the revenue to the modders who made it while also covering their certification process and also (hopefully) making them a little money in the process.

 

Everyone is happy then. Console players get mods. MS/Sony don't have to worry about mods that could harm their stable platform. Developers get the goodwill of having a modkit AND see revenue from work they don't even have to create. And modders get tools as well as the incentive to make money off their hobby.

 

It would require effort, coordination and diligent oversight to implement, but it is better, in my opinion, then letting modding die or leaving it to those who have to reverse-engineer your game engine before being allowed to do a change as small as re-texturing graphics.

[Zoner]

Hey, I've got a link to the Skyrim sales numbers.  Check this out.  The results are from December of last year, and I really doubt that it has changed that much:

 

http://www.statistic...s-v-statistics/

 

If you don't want to click on the link, here's the break down:

 

XBox 360: 59 %

 

Playstation 3: 27 %

 

PC: 14 %

 

That number comes to 86% of Skyrim's sales coming from console gamers.  For now, unless Sony and MS change their minds about allowing users file access (which is how you can mod,) modding only benefits a small percentage of the community.  That is the reality no matter how you slice it.  

 

It doesn't matter how many mods are out there, the sales numbers don't lie.  You're free to look up the DA numbers as well, but I don't think it'll be too much different from Skyrim's numbers.  Since Skyrim is known for having so many mods, you'd figure that there would be more PC purchases.   That goes to show while mods are a nice thing (which I do enjoy as well,) they are only good for a few.  It also appears that many don't care if they can mod a game or not.  There has been 20m copies of Skyrim sold, with only ~14% coming from PC users.

 

Those sales figures are always wrong.

 

They do not include steam sales and digital sales; all of these so called 'sales statistic' websites totally ignore the fact that 70-80% of PC game sales are in fact digital opposed to probably 20% for console; as console discs are resellable. And this is just for a newly released game.

 

Now add the fact that Skyrim has been selling robustly on steam for the last 3 years; its regularly in the top 10 even now, while the console sales would have died out long ago.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the actual figures as of this day were 70-80% on PC and the remaining on console. 

[Zoner]

One thing that does concern me...(old programmer) is that Inquisition is in a rock and a hard place. Console vs PC. Mods are right up a PC's area of expertise.

NWN and Baldur's Gate were PC games. And Elder Scrolls were first on the PC. I don't want to go to war with console players, but the focus is so different.

I would hate to see Inquisition ported to the PC, not the other way around. The Bioware videos were mostly console generated. Only recently they showed mouse and KB. The guy didn't seem to have much of a clue either.

I will wait and see, but not hopeful. Make it so, Biowarre!!

 

Yeah but most of those videos were all PC with controller. If you look closely the console version has some post-process AA which makes the edges shimmer while panning; while the PC version seems to have MSAA so that shimmer is absent; I noticed that instantly on the first PS4 gameplay that I saw

[aTigerslunch]

Wrong forums...................

 

Visit DICE and tell them to release toolkits.  

[Fast Jimmy]

Wrong forums...................

Visit DICE and tell them to release toolkits.

Hmmm. That doesn't really solve the issue. Because the issue is the DICE can't release a tool kit for Frostbite.

[Sylvius the Mad]

They don't need to release a proper toolkit. They just need to build in the ability to extract and replace content which we can then modify using third-party software.

We don't need the same tools they use.

[MKDAWUSS]

I'm still anticipating nude mods, toolset or no.

[Fast Jimmy]

I'm still anticipating nude mods, toolset or no.

Just don't anticipate it until year or more after release and you might not be disappointed.

[dch2404]

Hey, I've got a link to the Skyrim sales numbers.  Check this out.  The results are from December of last year, and I really doubt that it has changed that much:

 

http://www.statistic...s-v-statistics/

 

If you don't want to click on the link, here's the break down:

 

XBox 360: 59 %

 

Playstation 3: 27 %

 

PC: 14 %

 

That number comes to 86% of Skyrim's sales coming from console gamers.  For now, unless Sony and MS change their minds about allowing users file access (which is how you can mod,) modding only benefits a small percentage of the community.  That is the reality no matter how you slice it.  

 

It doesn't matter how many mods are out there, the sales numbers don't lie.  You're free to look up the DA numbers as well, but I don't think it'll be too much different from Skyrim's numbers.  Since Skyrim is known for having so many mods, you'd figure that there would be more PC purchases.   That goes to show while mods are a nice thing (which I do enjoy as well,) they are only good for a few.  It also appears that many don't care if they can mod a game or not.  There has been 20m copies of Skyrim sold, with only ~14% coming from PC users.

 

Except those sales numbers are a lie, they are the same estimates originally taken from Kotaku's article from Nov 2011, which was taken from the amazingly inaccurate vgchartz website. They also make the disclaimer that they are only retail physical sales and do not include digital downloads. Since neither Bethesda nor Steam have released exact sales figures broken down by platform, the PC sales are underrepresented because most people buy digitally. The circumstantial evidence (such as a spike in simultaneously logged in users on Steam and Todd Howard's statement at the surprisingly high PC sales), suggest a more accurate figure is 25-33% (Bethesda community estimates, not mine). But even still your point stands that the majority of sales are on consoles. Was just pointing out the inaccuracy

[rupok93]

Of course they aren't. They don't want to extend the lifespan because they want you to buy dlc and the next game. They are blind to things like skyrims success (which has huge playermade content) and constantly was on top 10 sellers for years, even now its top 40 on steam. 

 

They think playermade content will cut into their dlc sales but that is never true if you make dlc content that is worth it.

[Grieving Natashina]

Except those sales numbers are a lie, they are the same estimates originally taken from Kotaku's article from Nov 2011, which was taken from the amazingly inaccurate vgchartz website. They also make the disclaimer that they are only retail physical sales and do not include digital downloads. Since neither Bethesda nor Steam have released exact sales figures broken down by platform, the PC sales are underrepresented because most people buy digitally. The circumstantial evidence (such as a spike in simultaneously logged in users on Steam and Todd Howard's statement at the surprisingly high PC sales), suggest a more accurate figure is 25-33% (Bethesda community estimates, not mine). But even still your point stands that the majority of sales are on consoles. Was just pointing out the inaccuracy

Thanks for pointing that out.  I won't shoot the messenger; you've got a Kirball avatar, so you get a pass.  

[Razyx]

Of course they aren't. They don't want to extend the lifespan because they want you to buy dlc and the next game. They are blind to things like skyrims success (which has huge playermade content) and constantly was on top 10 sellers for years, even now its top 40 on steam. 

 

They think playermade content will cut into their dlc sales but that is never true if you make dlc content that is worth it.

Indeed, DLCs and mods only increases the lifespan (therefore sales) of any game...

[iniside]

There is one good excuse for mod tools not available for any Frostbite based game.

 

It's called Geomerics Enlighten (middleware Frostbite is using for Global Illumination). It have very strict licensing, that essentialy cut off any possibility of redistributing it in any other form than finished product.

[LilyasAvalon]

People try to make conspiracy theories out of everything and that's so cute.

 

Frostbite's engine is apparently too complex to make modding possible. I don't know how true that is/isn't.

 

But even if Bioware did want to let their fans mod the game, they can't, they don't own the rights to it, DICE does, and they seem VERY against modding for the Frostbite engine, for the reason above and also because they're scared about the code being stolen and copied and also they don't want modding exclusive to PC, they want it open to all consoles (which just isn't possible).

 

You want to ****** to someone? ****** to DICE.

[Realmzmaster]

Bioware, DICE and anyone else who uses third party software in their games are bound by licensing requirements. For example in the post by iniside, it is pointed out that Frostbite using Geomerics Enlighten for global illumination. This product is just one of many third party software that Frostbite may use. 

 

Any toolkit that Bioware releases would have to make sure it violates none of those licenses or provide workarounds. Providing workarounds cost resources. The idea behind using the third party software is to save money by not re-inventing the wheel. If the company has to provide workarounds to produce a modkit that wastes the money it was trying to save to stay within budget.

 

Console sales still outstrip PC sales even factoring in digital sales.  Even if PC sales were 30% (which IMHO is stretching it) the majority of the market belongs to consoles and that doe not look to change it the foreseeable future.

 

I think that Sylvius the Mad's suggestion is more doable.

[Rahavan]

https://twitter.com/...082081905094659

 

Mike has already said they have no plans for it and I doubt there will be, EA pretty much refuses to make mod tools for the frostbite engine.  They've used different excuses like it's too complicated for modders to use but I think it honestly comes down to fans making mods better than their piddly item packs and they don't want to extend the life of their games because they can't put out releases as often.  In my mind its just EA being EA and EA and that's not going to change no matter how much gamers demand it.

Oh, yes, because modding truly prevents EA from getting it's juicy money  . Modding doesn't detriment  EA's ability to keep releasing games. Most likely the higher ups in EA don't see the benefits of releasing a modding kit, maybe if they could make you pay for it  .