2337 replies to this topic

[Spectre Impersonator]

As DA: Inquisition has now released, this thread will contain SPOILERS. Feel free to post and discuss Celene's in-game character and all new information we have on her and the Orlesian court here.

 

Edit: 11/16/14 - Please refrain from posting spoilers until the release of Dragon Age: Inquisition on November 18th (Europeans may want to avoid this thread then, I know I will be until I finish the game). From then on, spoiler talk is fair game here as anything else we learn about Celene's character is very applicable. As far as most of us are concerned, the topic question is still up in the air.

 

This includes spoilers from The Masked Empire because that's where we learn pretty much everything we know about who Celene is. If you haven't read it, much of this won't make any sense to you.

 

In your opinion, is she the best ruler for Orlais given the current circumstances? Is she a good person or a villain? Does she deserve mercy or the axe? What role might she play in DAI?

.........

I started off the novel rooting heavily for her, as she cleverly manipulated less smart people in order to bring about peaceful resolutions to tense situations or force the university to accept elves. When she stuck up for Bann Teagan, I really liked her. During the hunt, when she defended herself from Gaspard's advances, I respected her defensive abilities and guile.

 

However, as the story went along, she seemed to become more and more selfish and callous while becoming less and less smart. She walks right into a trap set by Gaspard, more a soldier than a player of the Game, and yet his skill in the Game is what maneuvers her into it. And she does this to prove her strength of will because of a PLAY??? Is she really so weak as to be humiliated into action by a little vague theater mockery? Briala's plan to assassinate the guilty noble would have still gone off perfectly well if she'd stayed in Val Royeaux where she belonged. So she burns the elven quarter of Halamshiral and arrests her lover for a task she authorized her to complete. Then she has her bodyguard cut down several of her own soldiers who fled the battle. She visits a Dalish clan and (along with her companions) leaves it a bloody ruin. She consorts with a demon. In the fight with the vaterral, she chooses self-preservation over protecting the elf she loves when Briala risked all for her numerous times. A badly wounded Gaspard easily disarms her in self-defense when she tries to stab him in cold blood. She threatens her champion Michel with death should she ever see him again, despite his saving her skin constantly. Worst of all, we discover Celene arranged the deaths of Briala's family (and possibly Briala herself if she hadn't hidden).

 

Anyway, by the end of the book, I was thoroughly satisfied when Briala didn't give the smug brat her way. She is basically reduced to absolutely nothing and shown for what she really is. A conniving and ruthless, yet inept ruler and fighter. I hope she has more than a cameo in Inquisition and we'll be able to affect our will on the Empress to a degree.

[Fredward]

Why not both? In fact an effective ruler probably would  be both.

[KC_Prototype]

Savior! Long live the Empress! 

[Spectre Impersonator]

Why not both? In fact an effective ruler probably would  be both.

But in the circumstances of this novel, her deceit and betrayal end up making her a much less effective ruler, simply based on the condition she's left in by the end.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I would say rather she is foolish and weak woman that tries to hide behind good intentions not mention that i wouldn't simple trust her as even her lover couldn't i prefer  Gaspard over her as ally because he is at least more trustworthy than she is and only problem with him i have that he will be dangerous for ferelden as he is competent and want to war with ferelden.  

[Daerog]

If it were less turbulent times, if it were more peaceful and relaxing times, I think she would be fine, as she could just focus on her little pet projects like a University here, some art museums there.

 

However, as this is the Dragon Age, I don't think she should lead Orlais. She'd probably do fine as a minister or some other position in the government of Orlais, but Gaspard should be Emperor, if there is no better, third option.

[Dusksworn]

She is clearly an obstacle to the theocratic rule of the Herald of Andraste, and nothing more.

[Spectre Impersonator]

if there is no better, third option.

Inquisitor!

[Razored1313]

While I don't view her to such an extreme as you seem to OP I kinda went on the same journey through the book as you, I started off supporting Celene especially with teagan, but by the end of it I was on gaspard's side completely. If given the choice in inquisition....I will probably side with the elves honestly, but if that isn't an option I will go with gaspard. I don't think siding with the elves, assuming we can, will end well but really either Orlais burns or the elves somehow win and stop being killed because a noble is bored, either way I count that as a win

[Daerog]

Inquisitor!

 

Considering that none of the Inquisitors are Orlesian, I would not consider that a good idea.

 

I also don't think that Celene and Gaspard should co-rule. Celene should just step aside, establish and fund her Universities and art schools, and leave the governing of the nation to Gaspard.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

Well, minus her failure in TME, Celene's relationship with Briala alone convinced me that she is unworthy. Seriously that woman is sick. That said I will judge things from a role-playing perspective, and pick whoever offer more to the Inquisition, but I'll most likely choose Gaspard.

[Killdren88]

Gaspard is a Warmonger waiting to happen. Celene is my choice.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Seriously that women is sick.

To string someone along for 20 years... knowing you killed her family and not batting an eyelash while making out? Yes, that could certainly fit under sick.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

To string someone along for 20 years... knowing you killed her family and not batting an eyelash while making out? Yes, that could certainly fit under sick.

I wouldn't put that in healthy and normal relationship category. I don't know sleeping with someone after brutally murder their parents it so wrong.

[Killdren88]

But in all honesty unless the fate of Orlais's Monarchy plays a part in stopping The Elder One, I really don't care what Celene or Gaspard does. All that matters is who can support me best.

[Fredward]

But in the circumstances of this novel, her deceit and betrayal end up making her a much less effective ruler, simply based on the condition she's left in by the end.

 

I dunno man, some of those decisions were solid it's just that they didn't keep up with the rapidity of events. It's been a while since I've read the books but I actually think Celene's primary problem was her unseemly (for an empress) soft spot for Briala and her overweening pride. She's not inept at the Game she just let her affect cloud her judgement a smidge too often. I'm guessing/hoping that the events in ME have rectified that and she'll be a more dangerous player in DAI.

[l7986]

Find a honey badger and a burlap sack, then put the badger and the Empress in said sack and throw it into a river. 

[MillKill]

Well, minuse her failure in TME, Celene's relationship with Briala alone convinced me that she is unworthy. Seriously that women is sick. That said I will judge things from role-playing perspective, and pick whoever offer more to the Inquisition, but I'll most likely choose Gaspard.

 

Yeah, murdering the entire family of someone she supposedly loved in order to advance her political career and then lying to Briala about it for twenty years while not feeling even remotely guilty was pretty messed up. Someone that sociopathic doesn't belong anywhere near a position of power. I'll definitely be on Team Gaspard in Inquisition.

[Drasanil]

Definitely siding with Gaspard [the Bhelen of Orlais], at least when you cut a deal with him you can reasonably expect him to follow through on his word. Celene? One snarky comment from a noble and she'll probably stab you in the back.

[Lumix19]

I think people are overly critical of Celene. People blame her for seemingly "over-reacting" to the play when as clearly seen in the first chapter, when Gaspard hands his chevalier feather to Teagan, little things like this are essential to Orlesian politics. She needed to show Orlais' nobles that she wasn't being controlled by Briala/too sympathetic towards the elves. After all Empresses rule because nobles give them power, just because the nobles are horrible people doesn't make that any less true. Second most of what she did, she did because she thought it was best for Orlais and that includes (in her mind) her own survival. I don't think she's necessarily wrong. She's better then any of the other choices. Gaspard sees everything from a soldier/Chevalier's viewpoint, with a desire for war and a sense of honor that isn't conducive to long term rule. Can you imagine how the other nobles would react if they learned what he did to Remache?

[Vapaa]

Definitely siding with Gaspard [the Bhelen of Orlais]

 

Actually, Gaspard is Harrowmont, traditionalist, Celene IS Bhelen, reformist.

 

Gaspard is not a ruler, he's a warrior, his plan to end the civil war is...another invasion of Ferelden, I'd choose Celene any day of the week.

[Snook]

She has her ups and downs. 

 

If it comes down to it, I choose the mystery ruler behind curtain C. 

[Lumix19]

She has her ups and downs. 

 

If it comes down to it, I choose the ruler behind curtain C. 

Or both to rule, the ruthlessness of Celene balanced by the honor of Gaspard driven toward making Orlais a stronger nation.