2341 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

so how is she this so called puppet ???? kings and emperors are nothing without nobles she civilized the empire so what all this bad people are talking about the elves try to start a rebellion and got crushed serves them right  

Because she doesn't control her peoples they control her strong rulers like gaspard or behlen or even loghain can control their peoples and push their own goals celene can't.As i said i don't care about elves but that was great prove that she is simple weak and showed who is in control not mention that gaspard is simple better than she is.

[The King In The North]

Because she doesn't control her peoples they control her strong rulers like gaspard or behlen or even loghain can control their peoples and push their own goals celene can't.As i said i don't care about elves but that was great prove that she is simple weak and showed who is in control not mention that gaspard is simple better than she is.

so tell me good sir how is gaspard so much better ??? 

[TheKomandorShepard]

so tell me good sir how is gaspard so much better ??? 

Do i rly have to explain that to you he destroyed her many times screwing her over... pretty much situation with elves was best example of that. 

[HK-90210]

i'm sick of people bashing Celene i would like to see how would y'all run a empire she was empress for 20 years so she was doing something right everyone's  talking about what she did to briala was wrong so again what would you have done she would have died so she killed a few elves so what she helped them to but  sorry to say the elves are never gonna be free or have a homeland get over it and gaspard is arrogant war thirsty bastard i will see him dead i swear it by old gods and the new Celene is the better choice i will make sure she keeps her throne and make sure she keep's with ferelden all who challenge me will burn 

 

The length of time a ruler is in charge is not an indication of competence. Only that they are good at staying in power. The only thing Celene has truly succeeded at is seizing the throne, holding onto it for 20 years, and not being assassinated in that time.

 

And how has she actually helped the elves? 20 years as empress, and how has their lot improved? She tries to get an elf in the university. No idea how well that worked out. The elves still live in poverty and oppression. They rebelled against her too. Nobody can claim to have helped the elves in Orlais, Celene least of all. She has many high ideals, but no actions and deeds to back them up.

 

The only thing that her actions show that she cares for is her own power. She killed her household servants. She slaughtered the elves in Halmshiral. All because her power was threatened. "But she wants to help the elves". But she hasn't. She says she wants to, and that she will. Someday. She's been Empress for 20 years, and has done jack squat in that regard. Because she values her power, and if she did too much for the elves, it would jeopardize that power. She moral enough to see that something needs to be done, but doesn't have the (proverbial)balls to risk her own power to do so. Show me how she has EVER actually helped the elves, and I'll take it back. Her words say one thing. Her actions say another. Gaspard's actions and words match up. Whatever you may think of the man, he's honest(for an Orlesian).

 

I'll say it again. Celene sucks.

[The King In The North]

Do i rly have to explain that to you he destroyed her many times screwing her over... pretty much situation with elves was best example of that. 

wow he ambushed her when her troops where  exhausted so he's coward

[dragonflight288]

I started off really supporting her. Now I don't.

 

But I don't support Gaspard either. 

 

I don't support Celene because she's a politician first and foremost, and her word cannot be counted upon, nor can she be expected to stand up for what is right. 

 

But neither do I like Gaspard. He would happily see tens of thousands of people killed over his perception of honor, and Chevalier code. The same Chevalier code, that condones killing city elves as part of an initiation rite into the knighthood. 

 

Gaspard would probably be better for Orlais short-term, and would have a sense of honor that guides his actions, but that very same honor would drive him to commit great atrocities and war-crimes, and he would have no problem with it. 

[The King In The North]

The length of time a ruler is in charge is not an indication of competence. Only that they are good at staying in power. The only thing Celene has truly succeeded at is seizing the throne, holding onto it for 20 years, and not being assassinated in that time.

 

And how has she actually helped the elves? 20 years as empress, and how has their lot improved? She tries to get an elf in the university. No idea how well that worked out. The elves still live in poverty and oppression. They rebelled against her too. Nobody can claim to have helped the elves in Orlais, Celene least of all. She has many high ideals, but no actions and deeds to back them up.

 

The only thing that her actions show that she cares for is her own power. She killed her household servants. She slaughtered the elves in Halmshiral. All because her power was threatened. "But she wants to help the elves". But she hasn't. She says she wants to, and that she will. Someday. She's been Empress for 20 years, and has done jack squat in that regard. Because she values her power, and if she did too much for the elves, it would jeopardize that power. She moral enough to see that something needs to be done, but doesn't have the (proverbial)balls to risk her own power to do so. Show me how she has EVER actually helped the elves, and I'll take it back. Her words say one thing. Her actions say another. Gaspard's actions and words match up. Whatever you may think of the man, he's honest(for an Orlesian).

 

I'll say it again. Celene sucks.

who cares about the elves she's human she has human interest in my mind so if you  don't have anything else on her all i hear is elf this elf that fu*k the elves 

[TheKomandorShepard]

wow he ambushed her when her troops where  exhausted so he's coward

LoL that isn't even close to describe how he screwd her but i love how you prise celene for killing pretty much weaker enemy (civilians) and being just ruthless but you call gaspard coward for using smart tactics

[dragonflight288]

so tell me good sir how is gaspard so much better ??? 

 

I'm going to intercede here. 

 

He at least lives up to his word. His word is his bond.

 

Now, having said that, getting him to actually promise something is something else. 

 

I don't like him because he's so willing to kill thousands, or even tens of thousands of people, and finds nothing wrong with starting wars, and barely gives any thought to the lives of those who'll be directly affected. 

[raging_monkey]

LoL that isn't even close to describe how he screwd her but i love how you prise celene for killing pretty much weaker enemy (civilians) and being just ruthless but you call gaspard coward for using smart tactics

dont you believe in killing non-combatants to my friend lol

From what ive gathered in this thread is: if 2people are bad the more honest one is the better option. Cant say i agree with the consensus so i think ill just make jokes XD

[Dark Helmet]

wow he ambushed her when her troops where  exhausted so he's coward

 

Honor does not preclude tactics.

[Br3admax]

I really wish more people in this thread would use periods and/or capital letters. It'd be a lot easier to read. 

[Ryzaki]

But It's More Fun To Type Like This Though.

[TheKomandorShepard]

dont you believe in killing non-combatants to my friend lol

From what ive gathered in this thread is: if 2people are bad the more honest one is the better option. Cant say i agree with the consensus so i think ill just make jokes XD

Well i don't care who i kill as long it will get me what i want but being ruthless isn't much if you aren't smart and strong celene is only ruthless and pretty much why her actions backfired.I just pointed little hypocrisy here while guy was prising her for being ruthless he calls gaspard coward when he did ruthless but smart thing. 

 

Honest peoples are better allies so well in fact he is better option.

[TTTX]

Because she doesn't control her peoples they control her strong rulers like gaspard or behlen or even loghain can control their peoples and push their own goals celene can't.As i said i don't care about elves but that was great prove that she is simple weak and showed who is in control not mention that gaspard is simple better than she is.

Without some of the nobility that have their back they can't rule Orlais even Gaspard knows that, which why Celen has to make good with nobility from time to time if she wants to stay in power, even Gaspard knows he can't rule Orlais without some the nobles help which he doesn't seem have much of that since he has to stoop to trickery in order to get the throne.

 

Do i rly have to explain that to you he destroyed her many times screwing her over... pretty much situation with elves was best example of that. 

He is strong, but does that make him a good ruler?

 

This isn't Belen who has a long time plan in mind that could potentially last long after his death.

 

Gapard plan is basically go to war with Ferelden that might work for the short term plan at best, because it doesn't solve the problem there is with Orlais and which is causing the problems in the empire to begin with. At least Celen thinks about the future of the empire so it last longer in the future (Granted she did fail, but it's better then doing nothing), while Gaspard's plan is just a short sighted plan that most likely is going to fall apart once the war is over.

[raging_monkey]

Well i don't care who i kill as long it will get me what i want but being ruthless isn't much if you aren't smart and strong celene is only ruthless and pretty much why her actions backfired.I just pointed little hypocrisy here while guy was prising her for being ruthless he calls gaspard coward when he did ruthless but smart thing. 
 
Honest peoples are better allies so well in fact he is better option.

i disagree on honest=better and who is the better option but thats a debate for tomarrow lol. Sides like i said both are bad imo let orlais crumple and if we go qunari... eh *goes to get a bananna*

[HK-90210]

who cares about the elves she's human she has human interest in my mind so if you  don't have anything else on her all i hear is elf this elf that fu*k the elves 

 

Did you read the person I was quoting? I was addressing their argument that Celene helps the elves. I was not arguing one way or another about the elves. Just pointing out that if your goal is helping the elves, Celene has done nothing to indicate that that is what she will do if she stays on the throne.

 

What matters is that SHE(Celene) says that she cares about the elves, and wants to help them. But her actions speak otherwise. I'm saying that Gaspard is better because he's honest. "I don't care about the elves. I care about Orlais."

 

But here's the thing: If saving the elves was what you cared about, would you rather have a promise(As in a sworn oath) to improve the lives of the elves from a ruler like Celene, who has shown a reluctance/inability to fulfill that goal, or a man like Gaspard, who's word is his bond?

 

I think if you said "Gaspard, if you swear to improve the lives of the elves, give them rights and protections under the law, I will get you the throne.", he'd agree. And I'd rather he was in charge of giving them rights than Celene. Just imagine, Gaspard ordering the execution of chevaliers who kill city elves in initiation rituals like they did in his day. It would be sweet, sweet justice to make the man do it.

[HK-90210]

But It's More Fun To Type Like This Though.

 

I.THINK.WHAT.THEY.WANT.IS.THIS.

[Br3admax]

I.THINK.WHAT.THEY.WANT.IS.THIS.

F.I.N.A.L.LY.! I. S.T.I.L.L. C.A.N. B.A.R.E.L.Y. R.E.A.D. T.H.I.S., B.U.T. I. C.A.N. U.N.D.E.R.S.T.A.N.D. I.T..

[TheKomandorShepard]

Without some of the nobility that have their back they can't rule Orlais even Gaspard knows that, which why Celen has to make good with nobility from time to time if she wants to stay in power, even Gaspard knows he can't rule Orlais without some the nobles help which he doesn't seem have much of that since he has to stoop to trickery in order to get the throne.

 

He is strong, but does that make him a good ruler?

 

This isn't Belen who has a long time plan in mind that could potentially last long after his death.

 

Gapard plan is basically go to war with Ferelden that might work for the short term plan at best, because it doesn't solve the problem there is with Orlais and which is causing the problems in the empire to begin with. At least Celen thinks about he future of the empire so it last longer in the future (Granted she did fail, but it's better then doing nothing), while Gaspard's plan is just a short sighted plan that most likely is going to fall apart once the war is over.

 

He had support but he could control his peoples and put them in place what pretty much makes him strong as leader so he will be able put his goal wheter nobles like it or not ,clene don't rly have control over nobility in fact they control her as it is showed.

 

Yep it does as i pointed why as i said he is strong so he will able to do something unlike celene so already ,plus then he plans expand his empire by taking advantage of ferelden being weak.Not to mention that guy will strengthen military force of orlais and is great strategist.He already proved that he knows what he is doing and isn't idiot.

 

 

i disagree on honest=better and who is the better option but thats a debate for tomarrow lol. Sides like i said both are bad imo let orlais crumple and if we go qunari... eh *goes to get a bananna*

You can disagree if you are suicidal honest peoples make better allies than dishonest that is simple logic after all by very definition you can trust honest peoples when you can't dishonest .Of course there is more factors in that but honesty is good trait you can have in ally.

 

.

 

As i said once or two i don't love gaspard as i don't have love for orlais but he is better for orlais and as ally than clene because well he is honest ,so i can trust him more than clene who would sell me for nobles approval ,and he proved to be more competent than celene is.

[raging_monkey]

He had support but he could control his peoples and put them in place what pretty much makes him strong as leader so he will be able put his goal wheter nobles like it or not ,clene don't rly have control over nobility in fact they control her as it is showed.
 
Yep it does as i pointed why as i said he is strong so he will able to do something unlike celene so already ,plus then he plans expand his empire by taking advantage of ferelden being weak.Not to mention that guy will strengthen military force of orlais and is great strategist.He already proved that he knows what he is doing and isn't idiot.
 
 

You can disagree if you are suicidal honest peoples make better allies than dishonest that is simple logic after all by very definition you can trust honest peoples when you can't dishonest .Of course there is more factors in that but honesty is good trait you can have in ally.
 
.
 
As i said once or two i don't love gaspard as i don't have love for orlais but he is better for orlais and as ally than clene because well he is honest ,so i can trust him more than clene who would sell me for nobles approval ,and he proved to be more competent than celene is.

idk about suicidal but definatly willing to roll the dice lol but lets not use chargable terms. Makes us devolve faster lol

[TheKomandorShepard]

idk about suicidal but definatly willing to roll the dice lol but lets not use chargable terms. Makes us devolve faster lol

eh ok...

[King Of Winter]

some of her allies so she must been doing something right she nobles loyalty 

Marquis de Chevin 

Countess d’Argent

Ghyslain

Morrac

Comte Pierre

Lady Seryl

[Spectre Impersonator]

i'm sick of people bashing Celene i would like to see how would y'all run a empire she was empress for 20 years so she was doing something right everyone's  talking about what she did to briala was wrong so again what would you have done she would have died so she killed a few elves so what she helped them to but  sorry to say the elves are never gonna be free or have a homeland get over it and gaspard is arrogant war thirsty bastard i will see him dead i swear it by old gods and the new Celene is the better choice i will make sure she keeps her throne and make sure she keep's with ferelden all who challenge me will burn 

Right, how about what she did to Briala in order to get Mantillon's backing for the throne? 

[raging_monkey]

Right, how about what she did to Briala in order to get Mantillon's backing for the throne?

i would make a sarcastic joke about victimless crimes but my morales say she was wrong about that course of action.

But really we all have chosen a side doubtful that any of us will change them lol

*Note i support neigher side and any joke i made toward elves were satirical and mainly mocking human rationales on the subject. Moderate elven supporter*