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[Spectre Impersonator]

My problem with Briala has little to do with the character and more with Bioware's consistent pushing of female elves we're supposed to like and care about. First it was Fiona(the Calling), then Tallis(Redemption and MotA), then Briala(Masked Empire) and finally Valya and Isseya(Last Flight). Each of them are presented as flawed characters, but the narrative makes it clear that we are supposed to like them. They're purposefully endearing, and it feels forced at this point. "Ooo, female elf, I'm supposed to like them." At least Masked Empire had Mihris, a female Dalish elf we are definitely NOT supposed to like. That was kind of nice.

 

The trope is just getting a little tiring at this point. I'm also done with the semi-sarcastic human male hero with a well-connected mother who ends up being the leader of an armed rebellion and has trouble with two attractive women, one of whom betrays him(Maric and Rhys). Give us a dwarf hero. Or a female human hero who isn't as incompetent as Celene. Something new and different in the likeable protagonist department.

 

*ends semi off-topic rant on tropes*

Hahaha, I get what you mean. I hated Fiona, Tallis, and Velanna with all their arrogance/whining/stupidity while being shoved in our faces as great characters.

Briala, however, remains legitimately sympathetic to me. If it weren't for all the terrible things done to her by Celene, I might not feel for her as much.

[Inquisitor Julianos]

Traitors...all of you.

[Aimi]

Traitors...all of you.

joke's on you, I'm not actually Orlesian

[Inquisitor Julianos]

Celene is the better of two evils, she atleast feels sorry for the Elves, its Gaspar thats bad news.

[Who Knows]

Feeling sorry doesn't count for much after what she's done.

[Inquisitor Julianos]

what did she do? Love an Elf? try to make things better for them?, or would you prefer the crazy guy who wants to rule Orlais and his first thing is to cross the Fereldan Border and Invade again?

[Lady Artifice]

I believe Who knows is referring to certain actions involving them at Halamshiral.

"Them" being the Elves she has so much sympathy for.

[Chuvvy]

She's Orlisian, those are one in the same for THOSE people.

[ananna21]

Along with killing the parents of an elf she says she loves then sleeping with her for 20 years. 

[Girtuoklis]

what did she do? Love an Elf? try to make things better for them?, or would you prefer the crazy guy who wants to rule Orlais and his first thing is to cross the Fereldan Border and Invade again?

Make things better for elves by burning their homes and killing them on a whim just because she didnt wanted to prove "weak", killing loyal soldiers, backstabbing allies when they no longer usefull in her opinion?. At least Gaspard has warriors honor.  

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

what did she do?

Celene has already chosen herself before the Elves when she decides to burn down the entire Alienage in Halamshiral and slaughter many Elves in the process just to prove her point to the Orlesian's nobility, and before you come up with an excuse "every politician do what's necessary for the greater good" it won't justify her action nor make her any better than Gaspard. Celene is selfish enough to sacrifice the people she promise to give them a better future just to keep herself in the power, and what happen in Halamshiral prove that. However as a matter of the fact I wouldn't categorize Celene as sane figure or good person since she's not feeling even remotely guilty about murdering Briala's parents, and totally ok with using and sleeping with a woman whom parents murdered by her for twenty years. That's disgusting and downright sick.

 

Both Celene and Gaspard are terrible people, and neither is a good person, but I think it's ridiculous how some people actually view Celene as a good person, and even I who favor Gaspard more wouldn't dare think of him as a good person nor the most refined ruler for Orlais. In the end neither are a good person nor a good ruler who actually cares about their own people more than themselves.

[Augustei]

well to me this is a bit easier since I am a tad biased towards Napoleon

 

For my main inquistor, Navilia Trevelyan, it will be whom ever supports the chantry, Ostwick and/or Nevarra more. 

If Gaspard is Napoleon then lets hope to the maker for Orlais's sake, that Orlais has their own version of De Talleyrand. Otherwise Orlais is screwed

[Xilizhra]

This thread makes me dizzy...

Are there any other devoted Briala fans out there?

Nobody? Okay then.

I would be devoted but for not having read the book. But I support her in concept. She's the best thing to come out of that garbage, by far.

 

 

Celene has already chosen herself before the Elves when she decides to burn down the entire Alienage in Halamshiral and slaughter many Elves in the process just to prove her point to the Orlesian's nobility, and before you come up with an excuse "every politician do what's necessary for the greater good" it won't justify her action nor make her any better than Gaspard. Celene is selfish enough to sacrifice the people she promise to give them a better future just to keep herself in the power, and what happen in Halamshiral prove that. However as a matter of the fact I wouldn't categorize Celene as sane figure or good person since she's not feeling even remotely guilty about murdering Briala's parents, and totally ok with using and sleeping with a woman whom parents murdered by her for twenty years. That's disgusting and downright sick.

 

Both Celene and Gaspard are terrible people, and neither is a good person, but I think it's ridiculous how some people actually view Celene as a good person, and even I who favor Gaspard more wouldn't dare think of him as a good person nor the most refined ruler for Orlais. In the end neither are a good person nor a good ruler who actually cares about their own people more than themselves.

Still supporting Celene. I don't like her, but Gaspard is too great a threat.

[Xilizhra]

So... Gaspard is evil because he wants force a marriage on his lesbian cousin for the good of Orlais.

 

But when Celene put her lover and sexuality aside to conquer Ferelden through adultery with Cailan the Idiot no one batted an eyelash.

 

Standards in this thread be worse than Double Mint.

 

If I can behead that cunning swine that fancies herself an Empress I'll be satisfied. 

Um, one is attempting to force marriage on someone, the other is that someone willingly ignoring it to... well, write some letters. They're not even remotely comparable. Celene's done terrible things, but that wasn't really one of them.

 

Also, killing Celene will leave you stuck with Gaspard, and that's worse in every way I can see.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

Still supporting Celene. I don't like her, but Gaspard is too great a threat.

To each his own, and we all have our own reason for supporting Gaspard or Celene. I'm just pointing out that it's ridiculous how some people worship Celene and view her as a good person. Evil is evil, lesser, greater, middling...makes no difference. In Celene's case she's selfish while Gaspard has flaw in other things but...what she did to Briala is definitely wrong, and it's only prove Celene's a woman with a sick and wicked mind.

[Spectre Impersonator]

“Sitting on my throne, I see every city in the empire. If I must burn one to save the rest, I will weep, but I will light the torch!”

 

Hmm, according to Celene, the slaughter and pillaging of the elves at Halamshiral "saved" the rest of Orlesian cities. Seems to me that all it was about was "saving" her own reputation in the eyes of shallow and ignorant nobles who watched a play. If Briala had been allowed to continue with her mission of justice, the rebellion would have been put to rest peacefully. The so-called empress has a funny idea of what "saving" is. 

[Lady Artifice]

A thing about Halamshiral...Celene deserves to be condemned for it, but keep in mind that GASPARD would have done it too.

He sort of DID do it too. Not that his actions in ANY way mitigate her responsibility, but he certainly knew it was going to happen, and never shed any tears over it.

[herkles]

I am going to go with which ever one my character supports. 

[StrangeStrategy]

So... Gaspard is evil because he wants force a marriage on his lesbian cousin for the good of Orlais.

 

But when Celene put her lover and sexuality aside to conquer Ferelden through adultery with Cailan the Idiot no one batted an eyelash.

 

Standards in this thread be worse than Double Mint.

 

If I can behead that cunning swine that fancies herself an Empress I'll be satisfied. 

 

Is that what people are arguing about here?

Not, you know, Gaspard killing tons of Orlesians just so he can claim the throne? Threatening to start a war with weak Ferelden and only adding to the chaos, instead of allowing Celene to peacefull create art and culture and elven rights?

Sure, her methods to ascend to the throne weren't 100% noble. They never are: Its Orlais. What matter is that once she got the throne, she became a good ruler and improved Orlais. Gaspard just wants war.

 

There are plenty of reasons not to support either of them, and a few reason on why you should support Celene.
If I have to make a decision between the two of them, its Celene. I still see no reason why anyone would want to support Gaspard.

[Dark Helmet]

Is that what people are arguing about here?

Not, you know, Gaspard killing tons of Orlesians just so he can claim the throne? Threatening to start a war with weak Ferelden and only adding to the chaos, instead of allowing Celene to peacefull create art and culture and elven rights?

 

Which will last until a noble complains about it, then Celene will repeal her reforms and burn down another alienage.

 

She has no strength of character. Orlais deserves a stronger ruler than that.

[Br3admax]

Also, killing Celene will leave you stuck with Gaspard, and that's worse in every way I can see.

Noble: Gaspard! I want you to kill all the elves in the alienage! Now! 

Gaspard: No. 

N: I'll hate you!

G: Okay. I really don't care.

 

N: Celene! I want you to kill all the elves in the alienage! Now!

Celene: No. I have honor!

N: I'll hate you!

C: No, don't do that. Okay. Just a little genocide. 

 

That really isn't that clear and cut to you? One isn't obviously better? One isn't killing your favorite race on a whim. Mkay. 

[Inquisitor Julianos]

So Basically Celene is the bad guy for treating elves like every other human in Thedas? remember Elves are 2nd, if nopt 3rd class citizens in the Thedas setting, is Celene the bad guy for just going along with the socially accepted racism? over the guy that's first job is to completely enslave all of an entire country as his first act as Emperor of Orlais if it happens, simply because Orlais lost a Single war and their whipping boy in fereldan, basically treating fereldan like the english treated the scots? *Interlocks fingers and waits for response*

[Br3admax]

lol Celene isn't a bad guy for killing elves. She's a bad empress because a worm has more spine.