Plenty of famous leaders in history had no military experience in managing wars, case in point Elizabeth the first. Thats what good advisers are for.
And the other points?
Being unable to keep the nobles in line is not a sign of a competent leader or a strong one.
And the other points?
Being unable to keep the nobles in line is not a sign of a competent leader or a strong one.
It seems to me that some people think she's good for wanting to avoid a civil war, but I think a civil war would be beneficial. Get rid of the nobility and reform the flawed and corrupted Orlesian society. Maybe a war for change is what Orlais actually needs.
I wonder if Celene will have a tantrum when it becomes clear that she won't be keeping the throne?
She seems self-absorbed enough to throw a tantrum.
She didn't throw a tantrum after the events of the Masked Empire and that was a good a time as any. I suspect Celene expects to die if she loses the throne.
I don't think any of the Characters in the Masked Empire would throw a tantrum, they are too composed and smart for that.
I disagree. Loghain and Celene both seem to do what's best for them. They don't do what is best for their countries, they do what they think is best.
Nothing Loghain did would weaken Ferelden anymore than it already was. Most didn't know of these crimes and warred with Loghain because he was regent, nothing done benefited him personally either. He wasn't hurting Ferelden. Orlais on the other hand has been on decline for a long time, and nothing Celene has done has fixed any of this. Celene also doesn't do what she thinks is "best for her country" when her position is threatened.
If Celene did what was right for Celene she'd have killed Gespard immediately after he tried to give her a "hunting accident".
Except you know she can't because that's not how Orlais works.
She didn't because she was trying to avoid starting a civil war which would harm her people. She thinks this to herself in the book. Unless shes lieing about her motives in her own thoughts, I'll take her word about her movities.
She didn't kill Gaspard because Gaspard is better at the Game than she is. Otherwise, she would have killed him long before things progressed to this point.
Besides, how does insisting on having commoners and elves be educated at universities serve herself? If she was so selfish she would just support the status que.
Because it makes her look good and legitimizes her failed attempt at being empress, just as her marrying Calian would have done the same.
She didn't throw a tantrum after the events of the Masked Empire and that was a good a time as any. I suspect Celene expects to die if she loses the throne.
I don't think any of the Characters in the Masked Empire would throw a tantrum, they are too composed and smart for that.
It seems to me that some people think she's good for wanting to avoid a civil war, but I think a civil war would be beneficial. Get rid of the nobility and reform the flawed and corrupted Orlesian society. Maybe a war for change is what Orlais actually needs.
How does one "get rid" of the nobility? Note that this is something that neither Celene or Gaspard would be interested in.
And the other points?
Being unable to keep the nobles in line is not a sign of a competent leader or a strong one.
This unfairly places the blame for the civil war sole on celene's shoulders. There would be no civil war if Gaspard didn't instantiate one. Hes a traitor in my eyes and a self absorbed one since his primary reason for trying to take the thrown is envy. He wants it for himself, he says as much to Celene's face.
Will we get to marry celene and become a consort? can we also assassinate her and become emperor/empress?
Because it makes her look good and legitimizes her failed attempt at being empress, just as her marrying Calian would have done the same.
Eh all the Elven stuff was to keep her pet happy let's be honest.
Will we get to marry celene and become a consort? can we also assassinate her and become emperor/empress?
No and no.
This unfairly places the blame for the civil war sole on celene's shoulders. There would be no civil war if Gaspard didn't instantiate one. Hes a traitor in my eyes and a self absorb one since his primary reason for trying to take the thrown is Envy. He wants it for himself, he says as much to Celene's face.
good, raw ambition can very often be a very good thing
Celene can't control her court, she can't control her army, and she can't get over herself to marry Gaspard and settle the issue
How does one "get rid" of the nobility? Note that this is something that neither Celene or Gaspard would be interested in.
I have a feeling it's something Briala would want to do. I might end up trying to assume Orlais myself, as Inquisitor.
Because it makes her look good and legitimizes her failed attempt at being empress, just as her marrying Calian would have done the same.
I really don't love either Gaspard or Celene (I guess that was the point of TME) - but Celene is basically a better ruler than Gaspard could hope to be in every way. If it comes down to a choice between the two, I'd rather side with someone who tries to find a way to change society while keeping it from tearing itself apart in the process (which isn't the simple or easy path) than a reactionary, nativist war mongerer.
and the lying, backstabbing, bendswiththewind, spineless coward is better?
Except you know she can't because that's not how Orlais works.
She didn't kill Gaspard because Gaspard is better at the Game than she is. Otherwise, she would have killed him long before things progressed to this point.
Because it makes her look good and legitimizes her failed attempt at being empress, just as her marrying Calian would have done the same.
I hardly call 20 years of peace and property a failed reign. How ridiculous. And Gaspard says himself that Celene is better at the game then he'll ever be. Which is why he used military force to try to take her out and yet he still failed. But somehow Gaspard is the competent one here......*rolls eyes*.
It makes her look good to who?
The Elves who hate her anyway, or the nobles who resent her for it?
Obviously not the nobles who keep stopping her. And it's only natural to assume that helping the elves would make them think better of her. That's common sense.
Eh all the Elven stuff was to keep her pet happy let's be honest.
That as well. Unless they're her parents of course.
and the lying, backstabbing, bendswiththewind, spineless coward is better?
Of course cause "Justice" or some crap.
I have a feeling it's something Briala would want to do. I might end up trying to assume Orlais myself, as Inquisitor.
and the lying, backstabbing, bendswiththewind, spineless coward is better?
Bends with the wind? Did Celene really have a choice in ignoring the Elven Rebellion? Her hand was forced. And its not like shes dropped her support for her progressive ideas. And I thought Celene was plenty brave, actively helping her champion fight off soldiers. She even attempted to finish off Gaspard herself, foolish but brave.
bends with the wind? Did Celene really have a choice in ignoring the Elven Rebellion? Her hand was forced.
No, but the way she handled it was a big misplay. There are ways she could have manipulated that to take control of the situation...
Sure, but don't you imagine the civil war would cause a lot more death a suffering among the common people than the nobility, by sheer virtue of there being a lot more of them to die and suffer?
In the long term it'd be more beneficial. Orlesian society's going to have a revolution or civil war eventually. Might as well be now.
No, but the way she handled it was a big misplay. There are ways she could have manipulated that to take control of the situation...
OMG, a leader made a big mistake, their incompetent. We all know great leaders never make blunders.
Obviously not the nobles who keep stopping her. And it's only natural to assume that helping the elves would make them think better of her. That's common sense.
Bends with the wind? Did Celene really have a choice in ignoring the Elven Rebellion? Her hand was forced. And its not like shes dropped her support for her progressive ideas. And I thought Celene was plenty brave, actively helping her champion fight off soldiers. She even attempted to finish off Gaspard herself, foolish but brave.
She had the chance to stand up for her beliefs, but I guess elves are just soooooo burnable
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