2341 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

I don't know about you, but among this chaos I saw the opportunity to expand my Inquisitor's power, and perhaps the Inquisitor can rule this Empire behind the curtain and change its direction for better or for worse.
Nice Jolee's avatar by the way.
 

Having a problem with people with a different opinion, I see.

on the contrary im very accepting of differing opinions and both parties are terrible. I was trying to be funny lol. But it does make me laugh that lord gaspard is on a pedistal for some reason i have no idea why

[The Ascendant]

I can understand her reluctance to marry, no one likes to share power, but is she really thinking about what's best for Orlais? If she dies, no heir, no protegee only chaos. Gaspard has the upper hand in this, Celene has a biological clock and time is ticking. Her plan to marry Calain and annex Ferelden via marriage was quite cunning, but she did nothing to replace him for the next ten years. She may be pretty and smart, but that alone doesn't secure a dynasty. She may have 'loved' Briala, but monarchs don't have the luxuries that other people have. True Gaspard didn't remarry after his wife died, but I suspect he was playing the long game. The longer Celene goes without a child, the more appealing Gaspard is as an alternative. Who do you side with? A woman with no family, or a man who can settle down and rear one easier than a woman. What woman wouldn't want to marry the future Emperor? Or what noble wouldn't force his daughter, but that's an issue for another day.

Morrigan's position in Celene's court is of great interest for me, being my Warden romance and mother of my OGB. Is she teaching Celene some secret fertility spell to ensure she gets pregnant? Remember this is the daughter of Flemeth, who had no difficulties siring daughters for generations, and the mother of a reborn Old God in human form.

I remember Alistair marrying Anora in times like these. They compliment each other. Alistair is the descendant of the first king, a hero of the Blight and Anora is a smart ambitious, popular daughter of a war hero. Anora helps Alistair become more political and Alistair curtails Anora's ambitions.

Keep your friends close and enemies closer. Can't get much closer than a marriage. The call it wedlock for a reason! 

I joke, big supporter of happy marriages.

[Lumix19]

1)It doesn't rly matter as i said behlen isn't only 1 that did that loghain pulled that as well and he would get away with it if not the warden.

2)Cast system is pretty much nothing more than social system same we have in orlais from nobles to second class citizens.

3)And behlen had popular views nope he in fact had views that would ****** most peoples he pulled it off.Gaspard may not support elves but he has his code and well he won't allow someone get in his way as we saw.

4)They have also blind sense of tradition that behlen throw away and took all power for himself.Even if you give crown to harrowmont behlen still have a lot peoples under his command pretty much half of them attacks you there was good chance that simple without warden he could take power.

 

Im not fan of honor but Gaspard have strenght to stand for his goals and intentions celene don't pretty much she crawl under the table when other nobles will threat her with fingers.Gaspard is danger for ferelden what i don't like but he is very good for orlais because orlais have means to conquer ferelden when ferelden won't simple peacfully give orlais power.About elves i don't realy care but he didn't anything worse to them than celene to him elves are just pawns they are for celene the same.

 

 

True that is why orlais needs peoples like gaspard celene simple never will improve life of elves simple because she fears nobles and nobles don't want improve their lives second she supports corrupted system that have little respect for rules.Problem with gaspard that his code may weaken him but what makes him great simple that he can enforce it what makes him strong.

It is my opinion that Gaspard doesn't have the mastery over the Game to play it effectively and that means his rule will be a short and unhappy one. Gaspard's strength is admirable but strength alone isn't enough in a country ruled by intrigue and deception. I also object morally to his views on the commoners and elves but whatever. Regardless I don't think we're going to be able to convince each other so let's simply agree to disagree for now.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

on the contrary im very accepting of differing opinions and both parties are terrible. I was trying to be funny lol. But it does make me laugh that lord gaspard is on a pedistal for some reason i have no idea why

Pardon me, but you really should make it clearer the next time.

To be fair, it may be just me but I fail to see how anyone starting to put Gaspard on a pedestal, and as a matter of a fact people just voice their opinion, their beliefs, and they just point out Celene's weaknesses which is a fact, but that doesn't mean Gaspard is flawless. Both characters have their own weaknesses, but whatever people including me saying are just personal opinion. We just discuss whether Celene or Gaspard fit to rule Orlais better, both are great character but terrible people, and both have strong and weaknesses.

However the debate on who is the best and fit to rule Orlais better can go on forever, and assuming the game gave us a choice to pick between these two, even if people choose different option than yours, it doesn't happen in your game, and your story (your own canon) so there is no point fighting over this, just saying.

[TheKomandorShepard]

It is my opinion that Gaspard doesn't have the mastery over the Game to play it effectively and that means his rule will be a short and unhappy one. Gaspard's strength is admirable but strength alone isn't enough in a country ruled by intrigue and deception. I also object morally to his views on the commoners and elves but whatever. Regardless I don't think we're going to be able to convince each other so let's simply agree to disagree for now.

Behlen... Pretty much he crushed celene in her own game so he showed he is much more competent person than she is. Gaspard is behlen with traditional views.I don't see him having problem with other nobles as behlen didn't.Even if someone want help elves out of those 2 gaspard is better option becuase celene don't have strenght to pull that as she is dominated by other nobles that don't want elves to have more rights not mention that her support of corrupted system makes any reforms or laws pretty much irrelevant as laws don't mean much in orlais and it will be that way until someone strong won't enforce order and cleanse corruption then new laws and reforms have point.

 

As i said celene isn't much better than he is she only hides behinds this she pretty much showed how expendable elves are for her.
 

[Spectre Impersonator]

I don't know about you, but among this chaos I saw the opportunity to expand my Inquisitor's power, and perhaps the Inquisitor can rule this Empire behind the curtain and change its direction for better or for worse.

I am really looking forward to seeing the nation consume itself in response to the Rift.   Orlais has lasted long enough and it's time to destroy, wipe clean, and rebuild a nation where rulers aren't slaves to fashion and speech patterns being judged by a mob of vain idiots with noble blood.

 

I know Bioware has said we can't really join the Elder One, but surely we can still stand by and watch as his forces destroy much of this diseased country.

[raging_monkey]

Pardon me, but you really should make it clearer the next time.
To be fair, it may be just me but I fail to see how anyone starting to put Gaspard on a pedestal, and as matter of a fact people just voice their opinion, their beliefs, and they just point out Celene's weaknesses which is a fact, but that doesn't mean Gaspard is flawless. Both character have their own weaknesses, but whatever people including me saying here is just personal opinion. We just discussing whether Celene or Gaspard fit to rule Orlais better, both are great character but terrible people, and both have strong and weaknesses.
However the debate on who is the best and fit to rule Orlais better can go on forever, and assuming the game gave us a choice to pick between this two, even if people choose Gaspard it doesn't happen in your game, and your story (your own canon) so I see no harm in people discussing about this at all.

i admit my humour is a bit caustic but i just see that most focus on celene. Ill be sure to put disclaimers lol

[Spectre Impersonator]

The Game is impossible to destroy. That's pretty much a given. It's completely corrupt I agree but even Drakon could not do it.

And is Drakon the be-all, end-all of effective rulers? Just because he couldn't achieve this doesn't mean it's invincible. The Game must be lessened in significance through subtle rebellions to it's power, not all at once. For Celene, it's not even on her radar even though she isn't that amazing at it. But regardless, the Game will fall if Orlais is wiped off the face of Thedas.

It wasn't an attempt to look tough it was to show she wasn't being controlled or that she favored the elves too much. If she had allowed Briala to continue she might have lost her throne before the rebellion was put down. Besides how would Celene play off that that she took care of it? By admitting she had a noble assassinated because he killed an elf? I doubt the nobles would have taken that very well since they care nothing for the elves.

How would she have lost her throne while sitting on it? It only became vulnerable when she rushed out to Halamshiral with a relatively small force and personally put herself in the line of fire. She wouldn't admit she had the noble assassinated, she'd imply that through diplomacy and the direct, effective action of her agents, she pacified what could have become a war. Even Gaspard expressed pity for the elves they discovered in the eluvian chamber. Orlesians might view them as lower life forms but they are not robots. Use the rebellion as an opportunity to make progress for the elves. This is how I see a morally sound and logical player of the Game handling that situation.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

I am really looking forward to seeing the nation consume itself in response to the Rift.   Orlais has lasted long enough and it's time to destroy, wipe clean, and rebuild a nation where rulers aren't slaves to fashion and speech patterns being judged by a mob of vain idiots with noble blood.

 

I know Bioware has said we can't really join the Elder One, but surely we can still stand by and watch as his forces destroy much of this diseased country.

Cleanse it with fire, purge this rotten nation of its corruption, slaughter those whiny arrogant nobles and burn those stinky cheeses. I'm looking forward to see how things will turn out as well, and I think BioWare is already confirmed that there is possibly ending which you lose, but I think there will be a lot of worse possible outcome for many things in DAI.

I fully expect we'll be able to decide the fate of Orlais just like the decision on who should rule Felderen in Origins. I myself wasn't looking to burn down the entire nation, but I want to ruin it stability on the significant level leave Orlais as a shadow of its former glory because I'm sick of seeing one nation bullying other neighbor nations.
 

i admit my humour is a bit caustic but i just see that most focus on celene. Ill be sure to put disclaimers lol

Well, I don't think you can deny the fact that Celene make a lot of mistakes as a story in TME progress, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion so I respect everyone's right to their own belief. It's just my personal opinion anyway that I'm seeing Gaspard more trustworthy, but when playing DAI I'm going to judge everything from Roleplayer perspective and minus every element in TME since my Inquisitor didn't know about that. Thanks for putting disclaimers on the next time then.

[raging_monkey]

Cleanse it with fire, purge this rotten nation of its corruption, slaughter those whiny arrogant nobles and burn those stinky cheeses. I'm looking forward to see how things will turn out as well, and I think BioWare is already confirmed that there is possibly ending which you lose, but I think there will be a lot of worse possible outcome for many things in DAI.
I fully expect we'll be able to decide the fate of Orlais just like the decision on who should rule Felderen in Origins. I myself wasn't looking to burn down the entire nation, but I want to ruin it stability on the significant level leave Orlais as a shadow of its former glory because I'm sick of seeing one nation bullying other neighbor nations.
 

Well, I don't think you can deny the fact that Celene make a lot of mistakes as a story in TME progress, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion so I respect everyone's right to their own belief. It's just my personal opinion anyway that I'm seeing Gaspard more trustworthy, but when playing DAI I'm going to judge everything from Roleplayer perspective and minus every element in TME since my Inquisitor didn't know about that. Thanks for putting disclaimers on the next time then.

and thats why i support celene... the most chaos she cause to bring a enlightenment the weaker orlas gets in theory. From a. RP standpoint its just easier to swallow to side with celene.

Sarcastic joke: this is the bsn everybodys opinion matters.... if it's the "right" one(playful teasing remark)

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

and thats why i support celene... the most chaos she cause to bring a enlightenment the weaker orlas gets in theory. From a. RP standpoint its just easier to swallow to side with celene.

Sarcastic joke: this is the bsn everybodys opinion matters.... if it's the "right" one(playful teasing remark)

Some of us are apparently secret agent working for Felderen's Patriotic Brigade led by Loghain (or Anora), or working for Tevinter Imperium or for the Qunari.

Well, it not just BSN...basically the Internet.

[raging_monkey]

Some of us are apparently secret agent working for Felderen's Patriotic Brigade led by Loghain (or Anora), or working for Tevinter Imperium or for the Qunari.
Well, it not just BSN...basically the Internet.

so many factions must be hard to keep things civil lol (playful joke)

[Lumix19]

And is Drakon the be-all, end-all of effective rulers? Just because he couldn't achieve this doesn't mean it's invincible. The Game must be lessened in significance through subtle rebellions to it's power, not all at once. For Celene, it's not even on her radar even though she isn't that amazing at it. But regardless, the Game will fall if Orlais is wiped off the face of Thedas.

 

How would she have lost her throne while sitting on it? It only became vulnerable when she rushed out to Halamshiral with a relatively small force and personally put herself in the line of fire. She wouldn't admit she had the noble assassinated, she'd imply that through diplomacy and the direct, effective action of her agents, she pacified what could have become a war. Even Gaspard expressed pity for the elves they discovered in the eluvian chamber. Orlesians might view them as lower life forms but they are not robots. Use the rebellion as an opportunity to make progress for the elves. This is how I see a morally sound and logical player of the Game handling that situation.

Drakon is said to be the best Orlesian ruler but no, he's not the end-all of effective rulers. The Game however can't be taken down by a single individual and if you all nobles play it, even if they don't want to. Of course if Orlais is wiped off the face of Thedas this is that likely?

 

If Gaspard could have persuaded the nobles that she wasn't strong enough to put down the rebellion/favored the elves too much then she would have been very quickly deposed or assassinated. Note the rumors Michel reported to Celene after the play, she didn't have much of a choice if she was to convince the nobles she wasn't too sympathetic toward the elves. Simply the knowledge that a noble had been killed to pacify the elves would have given Gaspard more support. The nobles wouldn't care if the elves were massacred but if a noble is assassinated to pacify the elves the nobles would have seen her as an elf sympathiser. If you were a noble would you really support an Empress who would kill you to pacify people you see as lower life forms? None of the other nobles saw the eluvian chamber, I doubt they would care one jot about any form of justice for the elves.

[Killdren88]

Eh, so what if Celene is manipulative. Not like she is the first politician to be as such. She is more keen on keeping the peace rather than Gaspard. I'd rather have Celene around than Gaspard.

[Steelcan]

Eh, so what if Celene is manipulative. Not like she is the first politician to be as such. She is more keen on keeping the peace rather than Gaspard. I'd rather have Celene around than Gaspard.

but what will happen if the nobles under her want war with Ferelden......

 

Its not like she's capable of growing a backbone

[Killdren88]

but what will happen if the nobles under her want war with Ferelden......

 

Its not like she's capable of growing a backbone

 

I'll take that over already having a warmonger on the throne. Buys some time anyway to think of a proper solution.

[Steelcan]

I'll take that over already having a warmonger on the throne. Buys some time anyway to think of a proper solution.

Gaspard wants to invade Ferelden in order to unite Orlais into a single national goal

 

everything Celene has done has divided it deeper

[raging_monkey]

I'll take that over already having a warmonger on the throne. Buys some time anyway to think of a proper solution.

argeed. If a orlais wars its just causes more death and magi will be required then more dsleath is caused. Its like some fans whqt to fight and dominate "lesser" nations

[Killdren88]

Gaspard wants to invade Ferelden in order to unite Orlais into a single national goal

 

everything Celene has done has divided it deeper

 

Have you considered that Fereldan wants to stand on it's own?

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

argeed. If a orlais wars its just causes more death and magi will be required then more dsleath is caused. Its like some fans whqt to fight and dominate "lesser" nations

Celene also wants to dominate lesser nations, and she tries to take over Felderen through marriage with Cailan. While some might argue it's better than conquer through war, this political marriage would bring Felderen under Orlais's feet once again, and many people in Felderen won't take that lightly. The rebellion and war is inevitable since the so called peace is nothing more than a mean to conquer. Who know maybe you'll be able to talk Gaspard down about invading Felderen's idea, or maybe both Gaspard and Celene will die horribly. DAI isn't out yet anyway so...it's all speculation.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Have you considered that Fereldan wants to stand on it's own?

Since when celene cares about that she want ferelden fow own goals she just wanted that for free but that would come at high price in reality.

[Lumix19]

Gaspard wants to invade Ferelden in order to unite Orlais into a single national goal

 

everything Celene has done has divided it deeper

Yes and when Orlais is bogged down in a war with Fereldan and Orlais' enemies are taking advantage I'm sure Gaspard will very quickly find a knife in his back. Celene has only done what she believed was necessary to make Orlais stronger, like inviting people who are actually intelligent to her University. Besides if I recall it was Gaspard who started this Civil War.

 

Celene also wants to dominate lesser nations, and she tries to take over Felderen through marriage with Cailan. While some might argue it's better than conquer through war, this political marriage would bring Felderen under Orlais's feet once again, and many people in Felderen won't take that lightly. The rebellion and war is inevitable since the so called peace is nothing more than a mean to conquer. DAI isn't out yet anyway so...it's all speculation.

I don't think the plan was to conquer Fereldan through marriage. It was to secure their support against Nevarran aggression and Tevinter as well as prevent Fereldan from stabbing them in the back if Orlais becomes embroiled in a war.

[mindoirs]

She has her ups and downs, indeed. Compared to other people among her society/time/culture, she is definitely one of the better ones. I started off heavily supporting her 100%, and by the end of the book I still supported her because I think her development was interesting and showed how ruthless she can be, but she's not a bad person. There's no justification for what she did at Halamshiral, and although it was stupid, I can see how she fell into Gaspard's trap. She has her flaws which make her more interesting to me, and in the end I think she's a very good diplomatic ruler and the best that someone coming from Orlais can be for Thedas. I definitely do not support Gaspard and especially as a ruler. He just wants war and to be the leader of it.

 

Also yes, Celene is manipulative. But which ruler would survive without being so?

[TTTX]

Gaspard wants to invade Ferelden in order to unite Orlais into a single national goal

 

everything Celene has done has divided it deeper

That might work, but for how long?

 

Other leaders who have done this, but that tactic doesn't work in the long run, you usually just end up back where you started.

[TheKomandorShepard]

She has her ups and downs, indeed. Compared to other people among her society/time/culture, she is definitely one of the better ones. I started off heavily supporting her 100%, and by the end of the book I still supported her because I think her development was interesting and showed how ruthless she can be, but she's not a bad person. There's no justification for what she did at Halamshiral, and although it was stupid, I can see how she fell into Gaspard's trap. She has her flaws which make her more interesting to me, and in the end I think she's a very good diplomatic ruler and the best that someone coming from Orlais can be for Thedas. I definitely do not support Gaspard and especially as a ruler. He just wants war and to be the leader of it.

 

Also yes, Celene is manipulative. But which ruler would survive without being so?

Hardly she is better one she is just as every other orlesian noble in fact i would compare her to marjolaine with that celene tries paint herself pretty.