2341 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

None of these sods deserve the crown. Thus, the throne will go to whoever acknowledges the Inquisition's (and Chantry's by extension) exclusive claim to all Lyrium outlets within Orlais' borders, or alternatively, whoever can grovel in the most entertaining manner.

[Gervaise]

Just because the "Game" has existed for 1,000 years or so doesn't mean it should continue unchallenged forever more.   To my mind Orlais built an empire despite the "Game" not because of it, and have the Chantry to thank for their success as much as their political system.    However, I'd rather put my efforts into building up other nations so that ultimately they rise to greater heights than Orlais.    Celene has the right idea in trying to improve the education and culture of Orlais but she'll never have any real success if the so called scholars are able to promote such ridiculous prejudices such as the latest paper on the elves or debar people of real intelligence with original ideas from the seats of learning.    Once again the Chantry could make a big difference here if they wished to by sponsoring local schools to educate the common people or giving them scholarships to higher education.    The nobles would find it much harder to oppose the Chantry but unfortunately the Chantry has been complicit in keeping the current system going for so long.   So essentially there will be no progress in learning while it continues.    Even the threat of the Qun with their technical superiority has done nothing to shake people out of their complacency.

 

As for the question of the succession, Celene does not even need to marry but just groom someone for the role, much as Lady Mantillon did her.  There might be the inherent risk that such a nominee might try and jump the gun and have her done away with but that is all part of the skill she is supposed to have, ensure that the person realises they are better off with her backing their rise to power than attempting it on their own.    The fact that she has no heir is part of the reason she is open to the challenge of Gaspard since he only need to remove her to assume the throne, whereas if she had a successor lined up, or possibly more than one, it would weaken the legitimacy of his claim.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

but she's not a bad person.

So...there is nothing wrong about butchering the entire family of someone she supposedly loved in order to advance her political career, and then there is nothing wrong about keeping that hideous crime a secret and lying to Briala for twenty years, nothing wrong with using the person whom parents murder by you for your own agenda. Nothing wrong about sleeping with someone whom parents murder by you. Nothing wrong about not feeling even remotely guilty about your past crime. I'm not saying that Gaspard is a good guy, but this is ridiculous.

[raging_monkey]

Celene also wants to dominate lesser nations, and she tries to take over Felderen through marriage with Cailan. While some might argue it's better than conquer through war, this political marriage would bring Felderen under Orlais's feet once again, and many people in Felderen won't take that lightly. The rebellion and war is inevitable since the so called peace is nothing more than a mean to conquer. Who know maybe you'll be able to talk Gaspard down about invading Felderen's idea, or maybe both Gaspard and Celene will die horribly. DAI isn't out yet anyway so...it's all speculation.

i lean towards polical conquering rather than outright war. Plus its a hassle to do war logistics imo

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

i lean towards polical conquering rather than outright war. Plus its a hassle to do war logistics imo

You're missing my point that another and future war is inevitable either start by Felderen who wants to keep their independence or by a greedy nobles from Orlais who want to see every Felderen under their feet, and not as their allies.

[raging_monkey]

You're missing my point that another and future war is inevitable either start by Felderen who wants to keep their independence or by a greedy nobles from Orlais who want to see every Felderen under their feet, and not as their allies.

i forgot to put my disclaimer it was jest.

Honest response: war is always possible but thats somewhat fatalistic if celene can(not likly) kept them in check its fine but if they do war its only cause of the human condition.

Opinion/joke: whats the worse that could happen if there is a war the breach has happened, magi are loose, chantry is injured. I say we just roll the dice and see what happens

[Mihura]

What I find strange is that people think that Gaspard is a honorable person and even a competent ruler.

 

Gaspard is a racist that will do anything to get power, like setting an ambushing so Celene is forced to kill a whole village of elves and than he precedes to kill even "his" future soldiers and citizen of Orlais. Celene is not better or worse than him, she will do what is necessary to get more power. 

 

The difference is that Celene does things in more peaceful and subtle way, Gaspard want war and conflict but in the end both kill anyone that is in their path for the throne. Celene is better at the Game, Gaspard is better at warfare. To me the best solution was to forge an alliance with a puppet marriage.

 

The better person is Briala, the rest is ****. 

[WarriorOfLight999]

I care little for either of them. I'm content to allow the upper classes of Orlais to suffer.

[Reznore57]

Just because the "Game" has existed for 1,000 years or so doesn't mean it should continue unchallenged forever more.   To my mind Orlais built an empire despite the "Game" not because of it, and have the Chantry to thank for their success as much as their political system.    However, I'd rather put my efforts into building up other nations so that ultimately they rise to greater heights than Orlais.    Celene has the right idea in trying to improve the education and culture of Orlais but she'll never have any real success if the so called scholars are able to promote such ridiculous prejudices such as the latest paper on the elves or debar people of real intelligence with original ideas from the seats of learning.    Once again the Chantry could make a big difference here if they wished to by sponsoring local schools to educate the common people or giving them scholarships to higher education.    The nobles would find it much harder to oppose the Chantry but unfortunately the Chantry has been complicit in keeping the current system going for so long.   So essentially there will be no progress in learning while it continues.    Even the threat of the Qun with their technical superiority has done nothing to shake people out of their complacency.

 

 

 

I agree , frankly I see no reason to support Celene or Gaspard .Both want to spread Orlesian influence on the rest of the world , they are both dreaming of a bigger empire .Celene just wants to use diplomacy and marriage to spread Orlesian culture and Gaspard wants to conquer by force.

 

The thing is they bring nothing to the table , their "political" system is terrible ...nobles claims they are an elite blessed by the Maker , they are so bored and vain , their main hobby is The Game.

Their elite soldiers are above the law and have to have roots in nobility.

I can't remember the name of an orlesian scholar , I don't think they invented anything...

Well they have fashion and art , I suppose.

[Spectre Impersonator]

What I find strange is that people think that Gaspard is a honorable person and even a competent ruler.

 

Gaspard is a racist that will do anything to get power, like setting an ambushing so Celene is forced to kill a whole village of elves and than he precedes to kill even "his" future soldiers and citizen of Orlais. Celene is not better or worse than him, she will do what is necessary to get more power. 

 

The difference is that Celene does things in more peaceful and subtle way, Gaspard want war and conflict but in the end both kill anyone that is in their path for the throne. Celene is better at the Game, Gaspard is better at warfare. To me the best solution was to forge an alliance with a puppet marriage.

 

The better person is Briala, the rest is ****. 

Gaspard is a douche, but at least he's an honorable and occasionally charming douche who can fight. I don't see him as a better ruler than Celene. A more likable character... yes.

 

As I ended up empathizing most with Briala and Michel by the end, I had much less reason to dislike Gaspard than Celene.

[Steelcan]

What I find strange is that people think that Gaspard is a honorable person and even a competent ruler.

 

Gaspard is a racist that will do anything to get power, like setting an ambushing so Celene is forced to kill a whole village of elves and than he precedes to kill even "his" future soldiers and citizen of Orlais. Celene is not better or worse than him, she will do what is necessary to get more power. 

 

The difference is that Celene does things in more peaceful and subtle way, Gaspard want war and conflict but in the end both kill anyone that is in their path for the throne. Celene is better at the Game, Gaspard is better at warfare. To me the best solution was to forge an alliance with a puppet marriage.

 

The better person is Briala, the rest is ****. 

>Celene is more peaceful and subtle

>burns down an alienage and thousands with it

 

Sure Gaspard left her with few options, but if she can get played by a soldier she doesn't deserve to dit the throne anymore

[raging_monkey]

>Celene is more peaceful and subtle>burns down an alienage and thousands with it Sure Gaspard left her with few options, but if she can get played by a soldier she doesn't deserve to dit the throne anymore

and because gaspard is the "logical/honourable" best choice? I disagree my friend

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Of the two, I'll side with Celene over Gaspard. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Manipulative B*tch is more like it.

 

I'll go with Gaspard, at least he'll have my back in a fight.

[raging_monkey]

Manipulative B*tch is more like it. I'll go with Gaspard, at least he'll have my back in a fight.

thats a bit harsh lol XD. Gaspard is too set on his goals while admirable, celene may flip-flop but shows her versility imo

Edited due to spell check finishing my words and using impeoper language... darn iphone

[TheJediSaint]

I kinda liked both Gaspard and Celene.  It's going to be hard to pick between them.

[In Exile]

Gaspard is a douche, but at least he's an honorable and occasionally charming douche who can fight. I don't see him as a better ruler than Celene. A more likable character... yes.

 

As I ended up empathizing most with Briala and Michel by the end, I had much less reason to dislike Gaspard than Celene.

 

Gaspard isn't honourable as much as he is wiling to tell himself and everyone around him that he's chilavrous, but honestly that just makes him a hypocrite. 

[Asari_Party]

Celene brought the empire back from the brink of collapse, she's obviously a competent ruler. As for Gaspard, he keeps to his honour when it suits him. He isn't any more honorable than Celene, but she at least  is political progressive and no warmonger.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Seems like people are willing to ignore a person's negative traits so long as they are likeable. Why else would people still support Harrowmont? Seems like I expect Gaspard to be the "bad" choice in the OCW 

[Master Warder Z_]

I kinda liked both Gaspard and Celene.  It's going to be hard to pick between them.

 

It's sort of how you wish to see Orlais i suppose.

 

Gaspard is the type of man who MADE that empire into the grandest empire in the world.

 

Celene is about like the rulers that have ruled it since, more focused on revitalizing and keeping the Empire going, she is unique in her efforts to pursue a culture of "orlais" and expansion in the utility of elves but she isn't going to focus on expanding the Empire, she likely is going to let the Orlesians in Nevarra remain under their rule, and let that veritable Danzig situation continue for eternity.

 

Gaspard in all likelihood would see the revitalization of Orlais into the strongest military power in Thedas and likely begin expanding the Empire again.

[Black Jimmy]

Celene is a better ruler for peace time where Gaspard is better suited to rule during war.

I'm willing both the chance the redeem themselves for there more negative qualities.

[PlasmaCheese]

I'd choose her over Gaspard, but I like Gaspard more as a character. I know by the the end of this book I hated everyone but Felassan, lol. I'd kill Michel, too. He went from being one of my favorites to my least liked by the end. ._.

[raging_monkey]

What i loved about TME is eveybody is a ***hole no matter what and can wait to see what happens

[Master Warder Z_]

Celene is a better ruler for peace time

 

Which is this is most definitely not.

[Lulupab]

And where has war led Orlais to? It has been very pathetic time for Orlais, losing every single recent war and ultimately going into a civil war.