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[Master Warder Z_]

"Elves have no place in politics"

Gaspard says right in front of an elven Inquisitor.

Gaspard went full derp.

They don't as it sits now.

[Maria13]

I just cannot see why anyone would think Gaspard is a good alternative to Celene, despite his personal qualities (whatever they may be) the man is a war monger through and through the first thing he would do were he to get so much as a sniff of power would be to declare war on Ferelden... How can that be justified? How many lives would be lost just to assuage his sense of honour? Orlais would loose too it will never be able to hang on to Ferelden indefinitely. 

 

Fruitcake.

[Master Warder Z_]

Expansionism in and of itself is not negative.

o.o honestly people confuse me.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Expansionism in and of itself is not negative.

o.o honestly people confuse me.

Maybe because not everyone is bloodthirsty as you seem to be.

[DuskWanderer]

I just cannot see why anyone would think Gaspard is a good alternative to Celene, despite his personal qualities (whatever they may be) the man is a war monger through and through the first thing he would do were he to get so much as a sniff of power would be to declare war on Ferelden... How can that be justified? How many lives would be lost just to assuage his sense of honour? Orlais would loose too it will never be able to hang on to Ferelden indefinitely. 

 

Fruitcake.

 

Except that

 

A.) He doesn't do that.

 

B.) So does Celene. She just does it through sex rather than through violence.

[Master Warder Z_]

Maybe because not everyone is bloodthirsty as you seem to be.

It's how things were done for a very long time.

Labeling it uncivilized when it created civilization is an amusing part of modern culture; anyway when it comes down to it, it isn't bloodlust or desire for carnage it's the expansion of borders, civilization.

So buddy boy I don't see Gaspard as being expansionist as a negative; it's a revitalization long needed.

Orlais needs someone to embrace what made them, not hide it behind art and universities.

[Asari_Party]

"Elves have no place in politics"
 
Gaspard says right in front of an elven Inquisitor.
 
Gaspard went full derp.

Gaspard also calls Briala "rabbit" right in front of an elven Inquisitor. He's not the smartest guy

Oh, and Celene is the savior of Orlais, at least according to the codex.

[InfinitePaths]

So she kept information hidden in order to keep Briala around, denying Briala the full knowledge that could affect her consent in the relationship, more than a little sketchy.  She maintains her own status quo with Briala through lies and deception, not healthy.

 

I'm saying Gaspard is not evil, I am not saying he is a shining beacon of kindness.  If a man refuses to torture, kills his own men who break truces, but also starts a war etc... saying he's not evil is not the same as saying he's good.  He is no better or worse than any other Orlesian ruler, with the added addition of his code of Honor, that you rightly say is fairly incomplete and only pertains to certain actions, but at least he has one.

 

I'd say attempting a peaceful solution before declaring war is a pretty commendable action.

 

You keep mentioning the elves, yet he's not overtly racist towards them.  He doesn't care about them, but that's different from actively trying to stamp them out (like burning their Alienages down...).  He focuses on what he knows and what he's good at, I do not fault him for that.

 

You keep condemning the chevalier code of conduct, but as our western culture has loved to bash into our brains over the past few decades, morality is relative.  Condemning his actions as evil is a fairly arbitrary decree coming from your own morality, no different than his code. 

 

Celene was played, plain and simple.  Gaspard got her to do exactly what he wanted.  If Celene is so incompetent to have to rely on a jumped up brigand then she has no business running the empire. 

 

Michel beat Gaspard in a fair fight, Gaspard acknowledges this, and even decides to keep his secret (he's also in his 60's so I give him props for not being wiped out immediately)

 

Celene won a few times in her life, such as when she robbed Gaspard of his birthright, other times she doesn't win, like when she gets a dagger in her back

Celene kept a horrible truth from Briala yes, and it is a cruel rule of the Orlesian game.I am not stating that Celene's actions are morally right but I do understand her actions and I still believe that even despite Celene's cold, calulated move to get on the throne she respects and loves Briala just the same.Is genuine love and respect while lying to someone stll true and healthy?A matter of personal opinon.

 

I agree with most of what you said about his morality.He follows this code, it is a personal opinion whether it's right or wrong.But the point I was trying to make was that he does not do all of these praiseworthy actions because of his kind, pretty heart, he does them because he was raised and "brainwashed" (a bit of a harsh word) just like Michel to follow a certain code.And when you train in conditions that can easily break your body and mind, you pretty much have to believe that what you're doing is worth it.His inner sense of deceny isn't making him make these "morally good" decisions, but instead a code he was brainwashed to follow for better or worse.

 

About him ignoring the elves and him "not caring about them", ignoring racism/sexism/ whatever-ism is almost as bad as indulging in it.You just close your eyes, enjoy your privilge and let unfortunate people suffer just because of their race/sex/whaetever.The problem I have with Gaspard's morality is that he utterly doesn't care about innocent people and most other people who are outside his realm of chevalier honor.An Emperor who doesn't care about the common folk is bad for the people of the Empire.He merely follows his code and the desire to be on the throne while he would be thoroughly incapable of ruling it properly and fairly if he sat on it.

 

Gapard played her once, and he played her good.But he played on his own rules outside of the game, on a battleground most Orlesian nobles don't use and a battleground that would be avoided if Briala was there to council Celene in her actions.Celene is highly capable of dealing with matters of the throne, while incapable of dealing with military tactics while Gaspard is capable of dealing with military tactics but is uninformed and incapable (i really overuse that word, don't I?) in most matters regarding ruling an empire and the game.

 

In a nutshell, that's why I prefer Celene as a person and as a ruler.

 

[Gab]

I saved Celene in my game and regretted it when I saw Morrigan's summary at the end.

They were all playing the game and Celene was as guilty as Gaspard and Briala of dirty tricks. 

Not to mention that she actually stole the throne from Gaspard to begin with. Gaspard's military knowledge probably would suit Orlais better, particularly seeing as Celene doesn't look as if she can be trusted and even if she did make any concessions towards Briala, she doesn't appear to be very good at keeping her promises.

[InfinitePaths]

I saved Celene in my game and regretted it when I saw Morrigan's summary at the end.

They were all playing the game and Celene was as guilty as Gaspard and Briala of dirty tricks. 

Not to mention that she actually stole the throne from Gaspard to begin with. Gaspard's military knowledge probably would suit Orlais better, particularly seeing as Celene doesn't look as if she can be trusted and even if she did make any concessions towards Briala, she doesn't appear to be very good at keeping her promises.

Of course, the game is the core of Orlesian politics.Everyone in Orlais plays dirty.

 

I have a problem with the term "stealing the throne".Did Gaspard deserve the throne?No, he was just born fortunate enough to be successor.The one who should be on throne is the one who deserves it, and Celene did prove herself and took the throne in a classic, skillful Orlesian fashion.She outmanouvered everyone at the age of 16 and successfuly grabed the throne by using the game, like a true Orlesian leader.Her "stealing the throne" is a good thing, not a bad one, she proved that she is capable.

 

And no, let me correct you:"Gaspard's military knowledge would probably suit THE INQUISITION better", not Orlais.Orlais doesn't need military strenght and conquest, Orlais needs a stable leader to guide them in an age of englightenment.Someone who knows the economy, culture etc. of Orlais and has a network of Eluvians that can lead to a national rebirth with all the advancements that could happen.With a huge web of "portals", a nation could be created that is more advanced than ours.It's the best possible way of transportation.

 

The fact that she doesn't keep promises is bad for the Inquisition, not Orlais.Her interests are the interests of Orlais, her lying benefits Orlais first and foremost.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Honestly, the entire mission involving both characters is horrendous and doesn't allow you to be the Inquisitor you wish. You're forced to engage in that weak dance sequence, in which my pure warrior qunari danced like he'd had months of ballroom practice prior to the event. You have to kiss ass to the Orlesian weaklings or you fail the game, even though they contribute absolutely nothing to the main story afterwards. Pathetic. 

Oh, and Celene is the savior of Orlais, at least according to the codex.

Except when she's a corpse.

[Qun00]

Neither of them is a good person, so I might as well be pragmatic about this.

Gaspard is too hot blooded and unfit to rule.

[Steelcan]

Neither of them is a good person, so I might as well be pragmatic about this.

Gaspard is too hot blooded and unfit to rule.

if you are going about it with pragmatism and completely ignoring everything else, perhaps the renowned General would be of more use than the politician since Corypheus and his minions can't be beaten with a party and few discreet daggers

[Qun00]

You're technically right.

But taking down Corypheus kind of is our job already. And when it comes down to it, the story doesn't demand us to get that extra help.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Honestly, the entire mission involving both characters is horrendous and doesn't allow you to be the Inquisitor you wish. You're forced to engage in that weak dance sequence, in which my pure warrior quarry danced like he'd had months of ballroom practice prior to the event. You have to kiss ass to the Orlesian weaklings or you fail the game, even though they contribute absolutely nothing to the main story afterwards. Pathetic. 

 

So, I guess that Orlesian army that helped the Inquisition fight Corypheus in the Arbor Wilds wasn't a contribution to the story or a thing that happened. Alright.

[myahele]

War generals are a dime a dozen, so I don't understand what's the big deal with Gaspard? Far as I know he didn't conquer a nation. If it weren't Cailen's death Celene's way of marrying Cailen and joining Orlais with Ferelden via marriage would've been a nice non-bloody way to get back Ferelden.

 

And why make a big deal of "The Game" as ridiculous as it is, in the end its just politics. Just take a look at any nation: alliances, intrigue, gossip and assassination all play a role.

[Mushashi7]

Une nouvelle ère

 

Of course Gaspard should never let to power. He's a alfa male with war on his mind. Noting else.

With the reunion of Celene and Briala you get a new order where everyone is free and have a place. Elves get their status as they should have.

[dragonflight288]

If you make Briala the power behind the throne, how is the epilogue?

 

Depends on who the ruler is. 

 

With Gaspard, the radical changes make the nobles upset and there are rumors of revolt, and only a Gaspard on good relations with the Inquisition keeps them at bay. 

 

With Celene, if they reconcile, it leads to the most stable Orlais of all the epilogues. 

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Can we just split the difference and say she's a vile saviour? 

[Master Warder Z_]

Can we just split the difference and say she's a vile saviour?

No.

[Steelcan]

Of course Gaspard should never let to power. He's a alfa male with war on his mind. Noting else.

With the reunion of Celene and Briala you get a new order where everyone is free and have a place. Elves get their status as they should have.

How typical of Celene "tomorrow"

[Steelcan]

Depends on who the ruler is. 

 

With Gaspard, the radical changes make the nobles upset and there are rumors of revolt, and only a Gaspard on good relations with the Inquisition keeps them at bay. 

 

With Celene, if they reconcile, it leads to the most stable Orlais of all the epilogues. 

most egalitarian, but there's no indication the government is any less stable under Gaspard/Celene with high approval, there's still rumors of revolt but nothing ever comes of it

[Mushashi7]

How typical of Celene "tomorrow"

.
How typical to pick a single word in an attempt to find something negative?

Gaspard is an indiscutable jerk that brings war. He is a no-brainer nobody likes, but only will fear.

The most important outcome with the makeup between Celen and Briala is that you give two persons the freedom to be together again. Love shall always gain the upper hand - not war.

[MoonDrummer]

.
How typical to pick a single word in an attempt to find something negative?

Gaspard is an indiscutable jerk that brings war. He is a no-brainer nobody likes, but only will fear.

The most important outcome with the makeup between Celen and Briala is that you give two persons the freedom to be together again. Love shall always gain the upper hand - not war.

I cringed.

[Mushashi7]

I cringed.

.
Then I am happy you are not in power...