2341 réponses à ce sujet

[RinuCZ]

The book's description sounds like it is better to stay away from the novel. I enjoyed The Palace Job, though.

 

I like a lot how the empress was portrayed and how her personality was uncovered step by step via rumours, evidence and remarks. If anything, the trip to the ball revealed all parties have something nasty about them. The best choice is to glue them together by blackmailing.

 

The empire's culture and education seem to be thriving under her rule. While she obviously had done some nasty things like purging alienage, she at least showed a hint of regret during the ball about her past decisions. Or she just pretended, I wouldn't be surprised. But VO did a good job to convey the feeling.

Gaspard looked like he has an uncontrollable lust for a war which would probably serve as a way to earn a fame and his hands were bloody too. The last thing any country needs. Plus, he is just a sleazy guy.

 

It was honest. Politics attract sociopaths and it always costs something to get to the top and remain there. And don't forget she rules the society which admires well-played (read hidden) double-crossing and machinations aka The Grand Game.

[Spectre Impersonator]

Politics attract sociopaths and it always costs something to get to the top and remain there. And don't forget she rules the society which admires well-played (read hidden) double-crossing and machinations aka The Grand Game.

Exactly why all three characters and the Game they play should be eradicated, though the limited and rushed game does not allow this.

 

I enjoyed watching this even though I didn't do it on my lone playthrough because my character didn't know what a crazy b*tch she really was.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

They can be. It's called a non standard game over.

 

[Master Warder Z_]

Have about five Gaspard's in a row I doubt that the game will be over much issue

[Spectre Impersonator]

They can be. It's called a non standard game over.

 

Exactly. Disgusting. I could have destroyed Corypheus on my own near the beginning of the game anyway, as he was incredibly easy. In fact, the first time I fought him, he just stood there absorbing damage in a brilliant display of one of Inquisitions many breaking bugs. I hardly think I need any French politics to dispose of this clown. Street urchin Hawke whooped his ass years before. Just a pointless quest and a boring antagonist.

[Yggdrasil]

Celene always struck me as the lesser of evils.  It's Gaspard who I always thought was a power-mad, war-mongering bastard.  I was disappointed that Briala's control over the network of eluvians wasn't really addressed in DA:I.  I guess it was the means for her to foster an elven resistance giving her the power to be considered an ambassador.

[Master Warder Z_]

Celene always struck me as the lesser of evils

Ha.

[draken-heart]

I plan to have only one canon playthrough (one playthrough in general, actually), so it does not matter who is right, as it will be whoever I chose in the game.

[Barquiel]

Well, according to the World of Thedas she ensured that Orlais remained not just a strong nation but a great one as well. That doesn't sound like a traitor to me (unlike a certain powerhungry chevalier who started a civil war for no good reason).

[Master Warder Z_]

Besides it being legitimately his throne.

I'd say there are many wars that have worse reasons.

[banhmi87]

Besides it being legitimately his throne.

It's not. It's established that the way to rule Orlais is to play "the game". Gaspard played in it and he lost to Celene.

[Master Warder Z_]

It's not.

It actually is.

He was before Celene in the line of succession.

Ergo he's the rightful Emperor.

As he claims.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

It actually is.

He was before Celene in the line of succession.

Ergo he's the rightful Emperor.

As he claims.

Considering orlais was essentially crippled before celene, I'd say if Gaspard did rule instead of celene, orlais likely would have collapsed

[Master Warder Z_]

Considering orlais was essentially crippled before celene, I'd say if Gaspard did rule instead of celene, orlais likely would have collapsed

Speculation.

And uninformed speculation.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Speculation.

And uninformed speculation.

No it isn't. WOT outright says that the Ferelden Rebellion outright crippled Orlais nearly to ruin and Celene was the only reason why Orlais was able to recover and become the powerhouse that it is today.

 

We know little to nothing about how Gaspard would rule day to day apart from "kill everyone who doesn't agree with me" and "war for everyone". What exactly would Gaspard have done to bring Orlais back from the brink of collapse as war wouldn't have worked.

[banhmi87]

It actually is.

He was before Celene in the line of succession.

Ergo he's the rightful Emperor.

As he claims.

 

He's not the rightful one. Did you pay attention to anything in the game or read the book? The ruler of Orlais gets the throne by playing the Game better than anyone. She and Gaspard played the Game, in the end she earned Lady Mantillon's favor.

[Neon Rising Winter]

He's not the rightful one. Did you pay attention to anything in the game or read the book? The ruler of Orlais gets the throne by playing the Game better than anyone. She and Gaspard played the Game, in the end she earned Lady Mantillon's favor.

It's a common misapprehension that succession is based on birth as opposed to a bit of birth, a bit of wealth, a bit of marriage, a bit of religious belief, a bit of an alliance, a bit of an army etc etc. English history would look a bit different if that had been the case.

[Master Warder Z_]

No it isn't. WOT outright says that the Ferelden Rebellion outright crippled Orlais nearly to ruin

And you assume baselessly I might add that Gaspard wouldn't be able to recover from it, in fact I'd argue had he taken the throne after Florian he would have done better.

[Master Warder Z_]

He's not the rightful one.

According to the laws of the Empire he was.

Celene getting the council of Heralds to denounce him doesn't change the fact he was first in line to the throne.

It simply makes her a usurper.

Which unsurprisingly is what the Gaspard faction calls her.

[berelinde]

He's not the rightful one. Did you pay attention to anything in the game or read the book? The ruler of Orlais gets the throne by playing the Game better than anyone. She and Gaspard played the Game, in the end she earned Lady Mantillon's favor.

Some folks don't pay attention to anything that doesn't support their opinions. It's a lot like life, really. Everyone knows at least one person who becomes completely deaf and blind when presented with anything that contradicts their worldview. It's usually pretty obvious.

 

As for the topic under discussion, Celene is or has been both in her lifetime. Her emphasis on building alliances and placing politics above war gave Orlais the breathing room it needed after losing so much to Ferelden, but as a consequence, she conveyed the impression that she did not value her army. The generals and officers of the army were only too pleased to hop over to Gaspard's side when he started rattling his saber. In Orlais, image is important. Under Celene, the army was forgotten and losing status and social standing. Gaspard promised greater prominence, as well as the corresponding increase in social standing.

 

If you talk to Gaspard, he explains the reason why Celene rules and he does not. Judicael II was the elder son of Judicael I, but his sons died before he did, so his younger brother Florian became his heir and eventual successor. He had no direct heirs, so when he died, the Council of Heralds had to step in to decide who would inherit the throne. Judicael I had two other children, Reynaud (Celene's father) and Melisande (Gaspard and Florianne's mother), but both of them were dead, leaving the three cousins as contenders for the title. Gaspard was the eldest of the three and that's why he thinks he should be emperor, but Gaspard and Florianne were descended from the female branch, not the male branch. It was murky.

 

Curiously enough, a similar thing happened in 12th century England, and it plunged the kingdom into a similar kind of turmoil. Reading about Stephen and Matilda gives some interesting insight into the lore.

[The Hierophant]

According to the laws of the Empire he was.

Celene getting the council of Heralds to denounce him doesn't change the fact he was first in line to the throne.

It simply makes her a usurper.

Which unsurprisingly is what the Gaspard faction calls her.

It reminds me of the Ferelden Landsmeet, in that either Alistair, Anora, or the HN are approved of for succession by the court. Sophia Dryden versus her cousin too.

[Master Warder Z_]

Some folks don't pay attention to anything that doesn't support their opinion

Quite so.

This little debate over the legitimacy of Gaspard being first in line for starters.

Orlesians heirs if there are direct descendants are firstborn this was demonstrated twice in TME and several times in DAI.

But as you said.

Blind and deaf.

[berelinde]

Actually, if the rules of primogenture in Orlais follow those of France, the daughter of a son is ahead of the son of a daughter. Were Orlais really as absolute as all that, Gaspard wouldn't have a claim at all.

 

Now, if the rules of Orlais followed those of Saxon England, it would be the other way around, favoring the son of a daughter over the daughter of a son... but that would be more of a Fereldan thing, rather than an Orlesian thing.

[Qun00]

Celene does a good job at preserving the Orlesian ways, so... savior, I guess?

Regardless, she still is the monster who burned down an elven alienage.

[Master Warder Z_]

Actually, if the rules of primogenture in Orlais follow those of France,

If that was the case then why did Celene literally have to swoon the council to overtake Gaspard's better claim?