2341 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

Simple: They should love and respect each other as a whole to have a nation by getting together as a family, have a consensus instead of monarchy to create stability much like how the Qunari set up theirs, and set up a religion and philosophies that focuses on spirituality and wisdom to evolve spiritually. When really goes down to it though everything had to do with the mind, body, and spirit. So you set up a system to benefit the three things that can strengthen elven culture and religion. I go for an eastern style if those things like Buddhism, Ma'at, Hindu, Confucius teachings and the like.

The Qunari aren't ruled by consensus. All power lies with three individuals and the power to appoint them lies with a select priest caste.

Also, do you really think all divisions and conflict will vanish just because they're taught that they "should love and respect each other as a whole to have a nation by getting together as a family", will really make all divisions and differences of opinion vanish? In the Qun or even real world history, such unity has usually required imposing totalitarian control to promote itself, usually requiring the forced erasure of previous identities.

[MisterJB]

Simple: They should love and respect each other as a whole to have a nation by getting together as a family, have a consensus instead of monarchy to create stability much like how the Qunari set up theirs, and set up a religion and philosophies that focuses on spirituality and wisdom to evolve spiritually. When really goes down to it though everything had to do with the mind, body, and spirit. So you set up a system to benefit the three things that can strengthen elven culture and religion. I go for an eastern style if those things like Buddhism, Ma'at, Hindu, Confucius teachings and the like.

 

You're not offering answers, you are offering pleasant sounding platitudes. "Spirituality and wisdom to evolve spiritually" doesn't mean anything on its own. In fact, I don't even know what it means and how it particularly applies to elves when Andrastianism is a form of spirituality.

 

I'm all for separating humans from elves but even if you do that, you have to realize we're still talking about elves from Ferelden, Orlais, Nevarra, Tevinter, Rivain, etc; Andrastian elves, Dalish Elves; trying to live in a single state. All of this will cause division and strife.

 

 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

You dream a bit too much. And screw the Qunari.

I would set up a council/assembly/legislative house of elected Dalish/City Elf representatives who will hopefully form more consensuses and compromises than bickerings. From there I plan to establish a monarchy whose king and queen will be a Dalish and a City Elf as a symbol of unity and a source of decisive leadership in the form of an individual supreme ruler whom all elves will pledge fealty. Maybe the next monarch will be elected. Maybe it'll be a hereditary dynasty.
Or I could have two Roman Consuls, a Dalish and City Elf with equal authority and veto power over the other until the two come to a consensus/compromise.
And then there's another idea that'll probably fail to become policy, but I feel like imposing a tax on non-Dalish elves and the promise of less taxes and more rights/benefits to encourage those to convert. Ottoman-inspired, yes.

But that's unnecessary. Why would you create a system of government that will have a broken system and restart infighting and civil unrest among the people? There should be no taxes, dynasties, or internal conflicts. But the Qun is the only stable government there is the only thing I don't like about the Qun is the way they treat their mages.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

The Qunari aren't ruled by consensus. All power lies with three individuals and the power to appoint them lies with a select priest caste.

Also, do you really think all divisions and conflict will vanish just because they're taught that they "should love and respect each other as a whole to have a nation by getting together as a family", will really make all divisions and differences of opinion vanish? In the Qun or even real world history, such unity has usually required imposing totalitarian control to promote itself, usually requiring the forced erasure of previous identities.

Couldn't hurt. But there should be only one law that all elves must follow: Don't harm one another and don't harm the people.

[Heimdall]

Couldn't hurt. But there should be only one law that all elves must follow: Don't harm one another and don't harm the people.

Most societies have that rule, it's never been enough to ensure nobody ever breaks it.

Also, yes it could hurt, it could a lot.

[MisterJB]

There should be no taxes,

I...what? What? How do you even...what?

Oh sure, don't have taxes. And, you know, all those other unnecessary things like...infrastructure to enable the survival of the state.

 

 

But the Qun is the only stable government there is the only thing I don't like about the Qun is the way they treat their mages.

You do realize that, under the Qunari, everything one owns and produces belongs to and must be delivered to the state which will do with it whatever it damn well pleases.

That is literally the biggest tax there can be.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Most societies have that rule, it's never been enough to ensure nobody ever breaks it.

Because their leadership is very poor because they don't lead by example.

[Heimdall]

I...what? What? How do you even...what?
Oh sure, don't have taxes. And, you know, all those other unnecessary things like...infrastructure to enable the survival of the state.


You do realize that, under the Qunari, everything one owns and produces belongs to and must be delivered to the state which will do with it whatever it damn well pleases.
That is literally the biggest tax there can be.

That's not to mention that the stability of the Qun is maintained through the lobotomization of anyone that might rock the boat.

[MisterJB]

Because their leadership is very poor because they don't lead by example.

 

What does that even mean!? Do you routinely see First World heads of state murdering, robbing or raping? And guess what, PEOPLE STILL DO IT!

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I...what? What? How do you even...what?
Oh sure, don't have taxes. And, you know, all those other unnecessary things like...infrastructure to enable the survival of the state.


You do realize that, under the Qunari, everything one owns and produces belongs to and must be delivered to the state which will do with it whatever it damn well pleases.
That is literally the biggest tax there can be.

But you never heard of crime, violence, injustice, and racism among the Qun. Everybody is equal and that's the way it should be.

[Heimdall]

Because their leadership is very poor because they don't lead by example.

Power has a way of attracting those who would abuse it to their own benefit. Still, people don't commit crimes because their heads of state do it.

[Heimdall]

But you never heard of crime, violence, injustice, and racism among the Qun. Everybody is equal and that's the way it should be.

We don't know that, we've never been to a Qunari settlement. Nonetheless, there's enough dissent that the Qun requires an entire organization dedicated to brainwashing anyone that falls out of line. Their society is hardly so harmonious.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

But you never heard of crime, violence, injustice, and racism among the Qun. Everybody is equal and that's the way it should be.

We've never been in Par Vollen. We only know what members of the Qun tell us. Totalitarian governments are infamous for lying about what's going on inside their borders to outsiders and lying about what happens outside their borders to their citizens. 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

What does that even mean!? Do you routinely see First World heads of state murdering, robbing or raping? And guess what, PEOPLE STILL DO IT!

There is a time when there is no violence, no injustice, among the East thousands of years ago. The planet is a living utopia for humanity to live but a balance is breaking apart and that's why humanity has fallen because of it. Give an unenlightened person too much power and they will abuse it. Yes it's true but the fault for all this is the people too. "If you are looking for the guilty you need only to look into a mirror." V.

[MisterJB]

But you never heard of crime, violence, injustice, and racism among the Qun. Everybody is equal and that's the way it should be.

Am I in a liberal art college campus or something?

 

1-Yes, you do hear of crime and violence amongst the Qun. Bull and Sten spent most of their adult life fighting Tal-Vashoth who we are told routinely murder entire qunari communities.

 

2-Injustice? Like someone deciding for yourself what your entire life will be composed up to and including whether you can procreate?

 

3-Hey, let's get Tumblr up on this. Sure, there may not be racism but there is certainly ableism. A disabled person would, inevitably never be chosen for certain roles. And an overweight qunari would likely be told he or she must change in order to be more productive so, there's fat shaming. And since sex under the Qun is for procreational purposes only, they're homophobes. And since women and men are automatically excluded from certain positions based on their gender, there's sexism.

 

4-Equal? What do you define as "equal" Is it someone have exactly the same resources, power, means etc? Well, then they aren't equal because the Qun imposes an hierarchy. Or is it everyone having the same opportunities to reach their goals? Well, then they haven't that as well because, again, your role is imposed upon you from a very young age and you can't decide you want to be something else.

 

5-And all of this has to be imposed and maintained by the most authoritarian and draconian methods including lobotomies to dissenters and controlling the breeding rights of the population.

[MisterJB]

There is a time when there is no violence, no injustice, among the East thousands of years ago. The planet is a living utopia for humanity to live but a balance is breaking apart and that's why humanity has fallen because of it. Give an unenlightened person too much power and they will abuse it. Yes it's true but the fault for all this is the people too. "If you are looking for the guilty you need only to look into a mirror." V.

 

 

I swear to Christ, I have no idea what you're even talking about right now.

I sure as hell don't remember a time period in the "East thousands of years ago" that was free of violence or injustice.
 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There is a time when there is no violence, no injustice, among the East thousands of years ago. The planet is a living utopia for humanity to live but a balance is breaking apart and that's why humanity has fallen because of it. Give an unenlightened person too much power and they will abuse it. Yes it's true but the fault for all this is the people too. "If you are looking for the guilty you need only to look into a mirror." V.

 

Pray tell, when and where specifically was this utopian era in our history? 

[Vit246]

Why should the City Elves pay taxes to the Dalish Elves? If there has to be a tax based on what kind of elf you are, it should be the other way around. The ancestors of the Dalish Elves abandoned the ancestors of the City Elves to save themselves. 

 

As I already said, it will probably fail to pass to become official policy since the city elf senators will probably balk at it. The Ottomans could do it because they totally dominated the Christians and Jews citizens.

I'm just trying to come up with some sort of long-term plan to forge two people into one until there is no more distinction. They used to be one, y'know.

 

"The ancestors of the Dalish Elves abandoned the ancestors of the City Elves to save themselves. "

 

.....How the flying F do you manage to twist things like that? The City Elf ancestors surrendered their sovereignty and welfare to the humans and converted to their ways and essentially gave up on the old ways. Each generation forgot more of the language and ancient traditions that the Dalish fought to preserve. They could have went into exodus with the Dalish and remained Dalish but they didn't. They lost themselves. The Dalish should pay for not wanting to have become as pitiful as their urban kin?

...I suppose you could claim "abandonment" to "save themselves" from the ignoble fate of of alienages.

But enough, I don't feel like dredging this one up.

[MisterJB]

 

Pray tell, when and where specifically was this utopian era in our history? 

Do you think he means Thessia or something?

 

[Heimdall]

There is a time when there is no violence, no injustice, among the East thousands of years ago. The planet is a living utopia for humanity to live but a balance is breaking apart and that's why humanity has fallen because of it. Give an unenlightened person too much power and they will abuse it. Yes it's true but the fault for all this is the people too. "If you are looking for the guilty you need only to look into a mirror." V.

...Are you a Confucian? Because this sounds a lot like the Confucian appeal to the Zhou, the idea that there used to be peaceful and prosperous ideal society in the distant past, but people have lost their way. Of course, "things used to be better but society has lost its way", has been the refrain of countless people from every civilization imaginable. The reality is that the Golden Ages they appeal to weren't really so golden. You do realize you're talking about a blind religious belief, right? Not history?

[Vit246]

I'm all for separating humans from elves but even if you do that, you have to realize we're still talking about elves from Ferelden, Orlais, Nevarra, Tevinter, Rivain, etc; Andrastian elves, Dalish Elves; trying to live in a single state. All of this will cause division and strife.

 

I imagine even the Andrastian elves will conflict among themselves. A Ferelden Elf and an Orlesian Elf? Oooh boy. A Tevinter Elf? Everyone gangs up on that one.

[MisterJB]

I'm just trying to come up with some sort of long-term plan to forge two people into one until there is no more distinction. They used to be one, y'know.

If that is your concern, they maybe it's the non-Andrastian elves that should be encouraged to convert. Andrastianism is already the main dominant religion in Thedas and thus, it would make them more easily accepted by other nations.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If that is your concern, they maybe it's the non-Andrastian elves that should be encouraged to convert. Andrastianism is already the main dominant religion in Thedas and thus, it would make them more easily accepted by other nations.

Plus with what we know now, why would anyone encourage worshiping the Evaruris?

 

But yeah, as Josephine tells us a common religion is a great foundation for forming relations between nations.

[Heimdall]

As I already said, it will probably fail to pass to become official policy since the city elf senators will probably balk at it. The Ottomans could do it because they totally dominated the Christians and Jews citizens.
I'm just trying to come up with some sort of long-term plan to forge two people into one until there is no more distinction. They used to be one, y'know.

"The ancestors of the Dalish Elves abandoned the ancestors of the City Elves to save themselves. "

.....How the flying F do you manage to twist things like that? The City Elf ancestors surrendered their sovereignty and welfare to the humans and converted to their ways and essentially gave up on the old ways. Each generation forgot more of the language and ancient traditions that the Dalish fought to preserve. They could have went into exodus with the Dalish and remained Dalish but they didn't. They lost themselves. The Dalish should pay for not wanting to have become as pitiful as their urban kin?
...I suppose you could claim "abandonment" to "save themselves" from the ignoble fate of of alienages.
But enough, I don't feel like dredging this one up.

I wouldn't assume that just everyone would have the option to just up and leave. It's been stated that the Dalish began as the remnants of the noble houses within the Dales by Lanaya. They were the class most capable of mobility and with the most resources, not to mention the most to lose by submitting to humans. I wouldn't claim "abandonment" either, however, I just don't like this "Uncle Tom" treatment of the City Elves because they didn't choose the Dalish path.

The City Elves have not lost themselves, they recreated themselves, now possessing a culture that is part Andrastian while maintaining a distinct identity through certain practices like maintaining the Vhenadahl.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Pray tell, when and where specifically was this utopian era in our history?

Do you really want to know? Because they are things that I'm going to say you don't want to hear.