Look I'm not completely against interracial relationships but the fact of the matter is that he should never bring her to their territory in the first place, if he was smart he would've gone somewhere else to prevent an incident between two peoples.
Oh, you're not completely against interracial relationships? Well that's so much better!
Cis heteronormative members of the patriarchy!
Who also continually profit off of continuing enforcing harmful narratives subordinating the personal autonomy of persons of color to the continual ideological supremacy of said white dudes.
Still pretty sure Dean is being a bit facetious.And people thought I was kidding when I said dean was a sjw
Knowing the stuff he thinks about white people, it wouldn't surprise me.I'm glad I'm not the only one who read that that way. I was like, "Wait, is he implying white people aren't indigenous to this planet?".
Knowing the stuff he thinks about white people, it wouldn't surprise me.
I'm not sure whether to be flattered, or insulted on behalf of everyone else on the forum.
Depends on how high that bar is.
Flattered. Definitely flattered lol 
Look I'm not completely against interracial relationships but the fact of the matter is that he should never bring her to their territory in the first place, if he was smart he would've gone somewhere else to prevent an incident between two peoples. That's why I called him selfish and careless and even the "relationship" with Celene & Briala didn't go together and it wasn't a love thing at all, Briala is nothing but a fling and a tool Celene can use. And why you're making these wild accusations of things that I never said??? As I said before different people see different things and I'm not going to back down of what I believe in and I will not apologize to you just because you're pissed off solely because I don't agree with you. I believe what I believe you believe what you believe. We're different people dude you can't expect everyone to be in the same level as you, so don't get mad at people for having their own opinions. Chill.
As a gay black man with a white boyfriend, I have to say that is completely ridiculous and plain hurtful.
Things never got better it gets worse and people want to normalize this toxic environment that we put ourselves in and we externalize or fein ignorance to hope that a problem goes away, and people refuse to think for themselves and fix themselves and that's why the world is f****d up today.
Right, so let me get this straight.
Never in history has anything improved for groups who have been oppressed, had fewer right, etc. Black people are still enslaved in the U.S., women can't vote in the western world, same-sex marriage doesn't exist, transgender people can't have the little "M" or "F" changed on their birth certificate, people with disabilities have never received compensation and don't have infrastructure built to accommodate them (wheelchair ramps, lifts), no one has healthcare, the Geneva Conventions are inactive... Ad infinitum.
This is the state of the world, right? It must be, because "nothing has improved". No, not only that, but it's gotten worse! All of those things I mentioned are not only not improvements to society, but detriments! That's what you're saying.
The level of denial here is scary. I am very much in favour of equality, and acknowledge that we have a long way to go, but it would be outright crazy for me to say that nothing has gotten better, that we haven't made some good steps. Like others have said, you can't change society in a day, or in one motion. It takes time. Yes, it's sad, but there is nothing we can do but keep trying. It is getting better. I don't understand why you won't admit that.
I still think separation from each other is the best solution, its completely pointless to coexist with humans as a whole anyways. As I said what's the point? It is a fool who coexist with a people who want to do you harm so there's no excuse for what the humans did to the elves. They want to see elves suffer. They want to see elves beg. They want them in a constant state of fear. So tell me how is coexistence with them benefits the elves?
For someone who doesn't like stereotyping, you sure like calling all humans racists.
(Obligatory)
You're saying that elves and humans can never get along, because humans hate elves. So you're saying that humans and elves could never get over their racism (yes, it very much goes both ways) and learn to get along? If you are, you're saying that there is something inherent in humans that makes it impossible for them not to be racist. Starting Continuing to sound pretty hypocritical to me...
I'll let Sifr explain why segregation and isolation have never helped in the long run either in Thedas or the real world.
Which is all well and fine, but believing segregation works doesn't make that necessarily true, since numerous examples prove otherwise.
Diversity is not the problem, because the "good old days" you are imagining does not exist. As long as people have been around, they have always formed groups and come into conflict with each other, it's something inherent in human nature as a species of predators. We form groups and fight over religion, territory, food, resources, who we want to sleep with and sometimes just because we're bored?
The Ancient Elves had slavery and oppression, it wasn't sunshine and rainbows simply because everyone was Elven.
Same with our world, Britain wasn't a utopia where no-one fought each other before the Romans landed, nor did the native populations of Northern and Southern America have any problem finding new and exciting ways to kill one another before Europeans landed. Neither did the discovery of new lands containing new groups of people who looked nothing like them, prevent the various Old World nations from continuing to wage brutal wars against each other and acting cruelly to those in their own nations, as they had always done .
Even in a scenario containing a remote village where everyone knows each other and the gene pool is seriously limited, are you honestly saying that the lack of diversity will prevent things like bar brawls from taking place?
Because the lack of diversity doesn't prevent people fighting over reasons that include spilling a drink, sleeping with another person's missus, daughter or sister, cheating while playing cards, pool or darts... or because someone keeps putting Enya on the jukebox?
People fight because it's what they do and it's a problem they must learn to overcome together.
Exactly. I was going to make a similar point earlier. People will always find some reason to fight. Yes, it's bad. Yes, we should get over it. But it happens. So if you send all the elves to live on their own, you know what will happen? They'll find some other reason to fight besides what species they are (perhaps what race of elf, for irony?). Maybe it'll be class (Elvhenan!). Maybe it'll be eye colour. Who knows? People think of dumb reasons to get into groups and fight other groups all the time.
The point is: isolation doesn't solve anything. Everyone getting over each other's differences solves things, and you can't do that if you're going to keep highlighting those differences, making them important, by being exclusive. I know it sounds corny, but being inclusive and actually interacting will come as close to solving the problem as we can get. You know why? Because it's easy to hate something you can't really see. Segregation encourages that mindset. When people see people for people, real people, that mindset starts to crack. You see it all the time in real life, say, when someone makes a friend who turns out to be gay. Whoops, now it's someone you care about instead of this vague idea! It changes your perspective. The same thing can happen with elves and humans.
Wait, I'm an alien? Which planet are we from?
Ha-ha, that's awesome! I always knew I was different! You suck, puny humans! >:-D
When people see people for people, real people, that mindset starts to crack. You see it all the time in real life, say, when someone makes a friend who turns out to be gay. Whoops, now it's someone you care about instead of this vague idea. It changes your perpsective. The same thing can happen with elves and humans.
Incidentally that was part of my Mahariel's character development in Origins since she'd basically learned near the beginning of the story that humans and city elves had been directly responsible for her father's death which lead to her mother's implied suicide. Pol was the one who left the metaphorical door open for the development to happen but because their interactions were too brief, it was the party that walked through said door.
This had an awesome culmination and it provided more impact to the escape from Fort Drakon because Alistair and Morrigan showed up as a rescue party while Mahariel was escaping.
It was also sweet that for however different they might be to one another and however much they may dislike each other, Alistair and Morrigan will still put aside their differences and actually decide on course of action to help their best friend.
It also contributed more tragedy to other parts of the story such as what happened with Alistair and Mahariel's friendship: she choose to spare Loghain for the sake of the mission. It was a nice consequence of how she'd come to put the duty to see the misson succeed before all else even if it hurt her. That itself lead to some good character development in Awakening and in the ending where she basically deserts from the Grey Wardens because of guilt over everything that's she sees and done. On a bit of a happier note, she has somewhat of a happy ending.
I think there was a bittersweet moment in Awakening where I interpreted the dialogue as suggesting the friendship could come back with enough time. Mahariel and Morrigan's exchange at the end of Witch Hunt was also dang sad albeit more heartwarming especially given how their previous conversation ended: Mahariel did not choose the Ritual.
I still consider Mahariel's run to be the best of my Origins runs because of how the roleplaying and story played so well together during it. There were so many more moments including the ones with the other party members.
Note: Mahariel's attitude towards humans and city elves did not manifest itself obviously such as through slurs or cruelty but more subtle in how she thought about them and behaved in regards to them. It was interesting balancing the pragmatic aspect of her character with this attitude: I wanted it to be the subtle variant because I felt it otherwise would not fit with the characterization.
You're saying that elves and humans can never get along, because humans hate elves. So you're saying that humans and elves could never get over their racism (yes, it very much goes both ways) and learn to get along? If you are, you're saying that there is something inherent in humans that makes it impossible for them not to be racist.
StartingContinuing to sound pretty hypocritical to me...
To be entirely fair, have we ever seen an example of a positive interaction between an elf and a human that didn't involve the PC? Just one?
Exactly. I was going to make a similar point earlier. People will always find some reason to fight. Yes, it's bad. Yes, we should get over it. But it happens. So if you send all the elves to live on their own, you know what will happen? They'll find some other reason to fight besides what species they are (perhaps what race of elf, for irony?). Maybe it'll be class (Elvhenan!) Maybe it'll be eye colour. Who knows? People think of dumb reasons to get into groups and fight other groups all the time.
The point is: isolation doesn't solve anything. Everyone getting over each other's differences solves things, and you can't do that if you're going to keep highlighting those differences, making them important, by being exclusive. I know it sounds corny, but being inclusive and actually interacting will come as close to solving the problem as we can get. You know why? Because it's easy to hate something you can't really see.
I can't agree, not entirely.
Certainly, social classes are an inevitability and elves are entirely capable of harming other elves. However, if we are being entirely honest, we know that elves are far more lijkely to be murdered, beaten or raped in a human city than in a Dalish clan.
Elves require safety. Humans being around is not a requirement for this and can, many times, be an inpediment. Therefore, even if you don't remove the possibility of violence or opression by separating humans and elves, you do reduce it.
Mind you, entire isolation doesn't work. Trade, diplomacy, treaties are all necessary but they do not necessarely require for elves to live amongst humans.
To be entirely fair, have we ever seen an example of a positive interaction between an elf and a human that didn't involve the PC? Just one?
Multiple times. For example Merrill and Isabela got along famously, so much so that Isabela didn't even want to risk that by offering to sleep with her and instead acted like a big sister. There are also minor NPCs like for example Charter who gets along well with humans, and is even in a relationship with one. And then there are even unnamed characters like for example the elves who serve the Couslands whom Iona says are treated wonderfully by them.
Multiple times. For example Merrill and Isabela got along famously, so much so that Isabela didn't even want to risk that by offering to sleep with her and instead acted like a big sister.
They are character companions, unavoidably brougt together by the PC, I wouldn't count them myself.
But certainly, Isabela has had elves as part of her crew. But she has also traded them and thrown a whole shipment into the sea in chains.
To be entirely fair, have we ever seen an example of a positive interaction between an elf and a human that didn't involve the PC? Just one?
Sure and that is even if we exclude positive interactions between party members. I can provide examples of such tomorrow.
There are also minor NPCs like for example Charter who gets along well with humans, and is even in a relationship with one.
Hmm, Charter and Tessa. You're right, I had forgotten about those two.
And then there are even unnamed characters like for example the elves who serve the Couslands whom Iona says are treated wonderfully by them.
PC's family. Also, humans rule, elves scrub the floor, I was thinking of something on a more equal footing.
I am surprised more people don't argue that the HN's one night stand with Iona is a case of racial fetishim compounded by the clear inbalance of power between the male human and the female elf.
Just sounds like something you'd expect Tumblr to be upset about.
To be entirely fair, have we ever seen an example of a positive interaction between an elf and a human that didn't involve the PC? Just one?
Perhaps this is a rather volatile example, but the couple from Red Crossing is one. Fiona and Maric would be another.
Hmm, Charter and Tessa. You're right, I had forgotten about those two.
PC's family. Also, humans rule, elves scrub the floor, I was thinking of something on a more equal footing.
I am surprised more people don't argue that the HN's one night stand with Iona is a case of racial fetishim compounded by the clear inbalance of power between the male human and the female elf.
Just sounds like something you'd be expected Tumblr to be upset about.
What doesn't upset them?
Well, maybe I did fetisized Iona a little myself. But that doesn't mean I thought of her any less as a person. It was still just casual sex. I didn't treated her like a toy in any moment.
gremlin... Trolls are at least coherentWhy are people still responding to obvious trolling? Do you want this thread to get closed too?
Fiona and Maric would be another.
It did end up with Alistair sleeping in a kennel. I'd say both sides were at fault there.
Surely the King could have done something?
Please allow me to clarify: I'm not completely against IR if two genuinely people love each other and look out for each other regardless of different ethnicity background, that's fine but if you only attracted to a certain people of ethnicities only by lust, to feel like you're inferior, & self hate there is a problem. That's why I don't buy that Celene & Briala love just because Celene made love to her, and if Celene really loves her and the elves she would do anything within her power to make peace and prosperity for them. But instead she slaughtered elves and never didn't even made any reparations or reform to make up for her crimes. And the top of it all she killed her parents so tell me how is this "love"?Oh, you're not completely against interracial relationships? Well that's so much better!
Still pretty sure Dean is being a bit facetious.
Me? Facetious? Never!
I prefer parody. And occasionally irony. And watching people not catch the joke, especially when the joke is on them.
You pass, though.
Please allow me to clarify: I'm not completely against IR if two genuinely people love each other and look out for each other regardless of different ethnicity background, that's fine but if you only attracted to a certain people of ethnicities only by lust, to feel like you're inferior, & self hate there is a problem. That's why I don't buy that Celene & Briala love just because Celene made love to her, and if Celene really loves her and the elves she would do anything within her power to make peace and prosperity for them. But instead she slaughtered elves and never didn't even made any reparations or reform to make up for her crimes. And the top of it all she killed her parents so tell me how is this "love"?
To be entirely fair, have we ever seen an example of a positive interaction between an elf and a human that didn't involve the PC? Just one?
Positive relationships between Humans/Elves;
Maric and Fiona, Zevran and Isabela, Jethann and Ninette*
*Okay, he was a prostitute and she was murdered, but not by him.
Less positive relationships between Humans/Elves;
Vincento and Arianni (abandoned after knocking her up), Zevran and Taliesin (betrayal and death), Maric and Katriel (betrayal and death), Celene and Briala (betrayal and death/reconciliation).
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Incidentally, as we can see from the above examples, King Maric liked pointy ears and shapely rears. It is known. 
I respectfully disagree and the thing is is that if you love someone and have a relationship that person has to be your equal not the other way around. Celene is an Empress and Briala is nothing but a maid and she manipulated Briala to run errands and calling her a "rabbit" and not calling her name that's a sign of disrespect and disregard of a person. That is not love but domination and using a person as an object (yes Briala is nothing but a fling), Celene lusted after her it doesn't mean that she loved her because she slept with her. That's what rubbed me the wrong way of this "IR/love conquers all bullshit" it's all a lie. There is a sickness behind it and people refuse to acknowledge itIt's not. In Celene and Briala case in particular, their relationship is completely sick. But the issue isn't as much about race as it is about abuse.
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