Don't expect nothing from no one. Don't expect nothing from me it's up to a person to decide to change his/her ways. But I still believe Celene is an evil, manipulative, backstabbing person who needs to die for what she's done.
and that's accurate to a certain point, but not in every aspect
To be entirely fair, have we ever seen an example of a positive interaction between an elf and a human that didn't involve the PC? Just one?
I can't agree, not entirely.
Certainly, social classes are an inevitability and elves are entirely capable of harming other elves. However, if we are being entirely honest, we know that elves are far more lijkely to be murdered, beaten or raped in a human city than in a Dalish clan.
Elves require safety. Humans being around is not a requirement for this and can, many times, be an inpediment. Therefore, even if you don't remove the possibility of violence or opression by separating humans and elves, you do reduce it.
Mind you, entire isolation doesn't work. Trade, diplomacy, treaties are all necessary but they do not necessarely require for elves to live amongst humans.
What do want me to say? You want an apology for having an opinion? To say that I'm sorry for not go along with anybody else?
Well mostly I just want you to do exactly what I said in the comment you quoted, which was to actually engage in meaningful discussion about the points myself and many others have raised to counter you, and actually explain why you don't think our points are enough to change your views, instead of simply shrugging them all off and saying "Nope, I still disagree".
I'm not sure how you think that's a meaningful contribution, but it's also frustrating for us (or at least me) when you disregard the time and effort that goes into writing our posts by not even having the decency to respond to them in any meaningful way.
I am making productive debates about things, and if they believe otherwise that's cool. But I still disagree that Celene loves elves because she slept with an elf, and she slaughtered elves and didn't do a damn thing to make amends, or didn't even bring those monsters to justice for terrorizing defenseless elves. She just want to kill and shed blood because she enjoys killing people, and she's a master manipulator to use Briala as a resource not value her as a person. (https://www.tumblr.c...ged/celene-hate) But again if you still disagree of what I say that is fine, different people have different views not everybody have to go along with the flow.Well mostly I just want you to do exactly what I said in the comment you quoted, which was to actually engage in meaningful discussion about the points myself and many others have raised to counter you, and actually explain why you don't think our points are enough to change your views, instead of simply shrugging them all off and saying "Nope, I still disagree".
I'm not sure how you think that's a meaningful contribution, but it's also frustrating for us (or at least me) when you disregard the time and effort that goes into writing our posts by not even having the decency to respond to them in any meaningful way.
Don't expect nothing from no one. Don't expect nothing from me it's up to a person to decide to change his/her ways. But I still believe Celene is an evil, manipulative, backstabbing person who needs to die for what she's done.
Your belief is irrelevant to the accuracy of your claims. Double negatives aside- are they ironic or unintentional?- I don't expect better from you. Or for you to change your ways and improve yourself or your positions.
If you're content to wallow, that's your own prerogative. I could hardly expect any less from you.
You're completely missing the point of what I said but it's whatever.Your belief is irrelevant to the accuracy of your claims. Double negatives aside- are they ironic or unintentional?- I don't expect better from you. Or for you to change your ways and improve yourself or your positions.
If you're content to wallow, that's your own prerogative. I could hardly expect any less from you.
Soris is a punk! If I were him and I found out that my wife was captured by those monsters I would not rest and hunt them down even if it kills me to do it to save my woman, I'm not going to abandon her over a human! He is an embarrassment of elves of abandoning his wife and he as a man should love and protect his woman! But he want to turn his back on her and leave her to her fate by marrying to a human. What nerve!
First: Soris wasn't actually married to Valora. The wedding was interrupted before it had even begun.
Second: Soris didn't want to marry Valora, but was forced into an arranged marriage against his will.
Third: Soris was imprisoned in the Arl of Denerim's dungeons before he could be married to Valora, either having been arrested anyway shortly after the City Elf left with Duncan, during the purge of the Alienage, or in a worldstate where the City Elf wasn't the Warden and failed to free everyone.
Fourth: We never see Valora after the City Elf prologue. This would suggest she was killed during an unsuccessful rescue attempt in the worldstate where the City Elf isn't the Warden, was killed during the purge of the Alienage that followed, or was taken as a slave to Tevinter.
So explain to me how Soris is a race traitor for having found happiness and love with a human woman? Or should have been expected to remain faithful to the memory of the elven woman he never wanted to marry, nor was married to, who is either dead or enslaved half the world away?
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/ValoraFirst: Soris wasn't actually married to Valora. The wedding was interrupted before it had even begun.
Second: Soris didn't want to marry Valora, but was forced into an arranged marriage against his will.
Third: Soris was imprisoned in the Arl of Denerim's dungeons before he could be married to Valora, either having been arrested anyway shortly after the City Elf left with Duncan, during the purge of the Alienage, or in a worldstate where the City Elf wasn't the Warden and failed to free everyone.
Fourth: We never see Valora after the City Elf prologue. This would suggest she was killed during an unsuccessful rescue attempt in the worldstate where the City Elf isn't the Warden, was killed during the purge of the Alienage that followed, or was taken as a slave to Tevinter.
So explain to me how Soris is a race traitor for having found happiness and love with a human woman? Or should have been expected to remain faithful to the memory of the elven woman he never wanted to marry, nor was married to, who is either dead or enslaved half the world away?
First: Soris wasn't actually married to Valora. The wedding was interrupted before it had even begun.
Second: Soris didn't want to marry Valora, but was forced into an arranged marriage against his will.
Third: Soris was imprisoned in the Arl of Denerim's dungeons before he could be married to Valora, either having been arrested anyway shortly after the City Elf left with Duncan, during the purge of the Alienage, or in a worldstate where the City Elf wasn't the Warden and failed to free everyone.
Fourth: We never see Valora after the City Elf prologue. This would suggest she was killed during an unsuccessful rescue attempt in the worldstate where the City Elf isn't the Warden, was killed during the purge of the Alienage that followed, or was taken as a slave to Tevinter.
So explain to me how Soris is a race traitor for having found happiness and love with a human woman? Or should have been expected to remain faithful to the memory of the elven woman he never wanted to marry, nor was married to, who is either dead or enslaved half the world away?
I can link to wiki pages too, it doesn't qualify as an argument
You're completely missing the point of what I said but it's whatever.
Oh, but I do. And rest assured, I have very low expectations for you when it comes to your posts, as your continued attempt to get the last word in illustrates.
I can link to wiki pages too, it doesn't qualify as an argument
Steelcan beat me to the punch, ditto, how did those links prove any of my argument invalid about neither being hitched? 
No reason to believe Gorim married a human.
It means that Soris did loved her until she was taken by Tevinter slavers and he abandoned her over a human instead of tracking them down and rescue her from those barbarians. He is a coward and a weakling.Steelcan beat me to the punch, ditto, how did those links prove any of my argument invalid about neither being hitched?
It means that Soris did loved her until she was taken by Tevinter slavers and he abandoned her over a human instead of tracking them down and rescue her from those barbarians. He is a coward and a weakling.
not everyone can be Maxiumus Deximus Meridius
He's still a weakling and a disgrace. What man would abandon his own wife by sleeping with the enemy?not everyone can be Maxiumus Deximus Meridius
He's still a weakling and a disgrace. What man would abandon his own wife by sleeping with the enemy?
he's not a man clearly, proof of the elves inferiority before their human overlords
The humans are a mistake.he's not a man clearly, proof of the elves inferiority before their human overlords
The humans are a mistake.
no the elves are just weaker and inferior in every aspect, the age of man is upon Thedas
here's hoping for a reunited kingdom to go with it!
It means that Soris did loved her until she was taken by Tevinter slavers and he abandoned her over a human instead of tracking them down and rescue her from those barbarians. He is a coward and a weakling.
Soris wasn't in love with her, he'd only met her briefly before they were meant to be wed, when Vaughn abducted her.
Dialogue between the City Elf and Soris during the rescue mission make it clear that while they want to rescue the other women, it was Shianni who was the most important person to them to get back, since she was their cousin and they'd grown up together.
And as I said before, Soris has no idea whether Valora was dead or enslaved, because he was stuck in a dungeon for months.
A lot of people died in the purge or were taken to Tevinter. It's even commented on during the "Unrest in the Alienage" quest that because they didn't realise that the disappearances weren't because of deaths from the "plague", but because people had been sold into slavery, it was impossible to know how many were taken, where they had been taken to, or have any hope of getting them back.
What is Soris supposed to have done exactly, gone to Tevinter and search the entire Imperium for her with a fine-tooth comb? Good luck trying that, he'd not get within 100 miles of the Tevinter border without ending up sold into slavery himself for all his troubles?
I am making productive debates about things, and if they believe otherwise that's cool. But I still disagree that Celene loves elves because she slept with an elf, and she slaughtered elves and didn't do a damn thing to make amends, or didn't even bring those monsters to justice for terrorizing defenseless elves. She just want to kill and shed blood because she enjoys killing people, and she's a master manipulator to use Briala as a resource not value her as a person. (https://www.tumblr.c...ged/celene-hate) But again if you still disagree of what I say that is fine, different people have different views not everybody have to go along with the flow.
No, you're not, which you just proved by ignoring everything I had to say, again, and spouting a whole lot of stuff about Celene and Briala - whom I never even commented on to begin with. So it looks like you don't even know what you're not properly responding to.
Yes! If I was him would go through the depths of hell to rescue her from those things.Soris wasn't in love with her, he'd only met her briefly before they were meant to be wed, when Vaughn abducted her.
Dialogue between the City Elf and Soris during the rescue mission make it clear that while they want to rescue the other women, it was Shianni who was the most important person to them to get back, since she was their cousin and they'd grown up together.
And as I said before, Soris has no idea whether Valora was dead or enslaved, because he was stuck in a dungeon for months.
A lot of people died in the purge or were taken to Tevinter. It's even commented on during the "Unrest in the Alienage" quest that because they didn't realise that the disappearances weren't because of deaths from the "plague", but because people had been sold into slavery, it was impossible to know how many were taken, where they had been taken to, or have any hope of getting them back.
What is Soris supposed to have done exactly, gone to Tevinter and search the entire Imperium for her with a fine-tooth comb? Good luck trying that, he'd not get within 100 miles of the Tevinter border without ending up sold into slavery himself for all his troubles?
I'll keep that in mind next time my high school crush goes across the country, gotta follow her to Hell and back at the expense of all other things in life
OK. My mistake sometimes passion got the best of me sometimes.No, you're not, which you just proved by ignoring everything I had to say, again, and spouting a whole lot of stuff about Celene and Briala - whom I never even commented on to begin with. So it looks like you don't even know what you're not properly responding to.
Soris, however, finds himself quite smitten with her.
Smitten means overwhelmed or struck by something, usually love. The way you light up every time the waiter comes over to your table, it’s obvious you’re smitten with him.
Except that Soris never demonstrates that he's "smitten" with her once during the City Elf origin. Instead he frequently describes her as a "mouse" in unflattering terms, not those of someone who views his bride-to-be with any kind of real affection.
Even when he returns after the rescue and states his intention to perhaps settle down, he only refers to her only as a "good" woman with ideas to change the Alienage for the better. He's not in love with her, he merely sees that she won't be terrible as a potential spouse.
You seem to be mistaking that description from the wiki at face value, forgetting that the wiki can be edited by anyone.
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