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[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Except that Soris never demonstrates that he's "smitten" with her once during the City Elf origin. Instead he frequently describes her as a "mouse" in unflattering terms, not those of someone who views his bride-to-be with any kind of real affection.

Even when he returns after the rescue and states his intention to perhaps settle down, he only refers to her only as a "good" woman with ideas to change the Alienage for the better. He's not in love with her, he merely sees that she won't be terrible as a potential spouse.

You seem to be mistaking that description from the wiki at face value, forgetting that the wiki can be edited by anyone.

But he's still wrong for abandoning her and he didn't even give it a chance to be in a relationship with her. She is a good person and it's a shame that he rather be with a human than with Valora.

[Sifr]

But he's still wrong for abandoning her and he didn't even give it a chance to be in a relationship with her. She is a good person and it's a shame that he rather be with a human than with Valora.

 

Soris didn't abandon her. He was thrown into a dungeon for months, while she was sold as a slave. How is that his fault?

 

Likewise, what is wrong with him finding love with someone else, or that the woman he happened to find love with was human?

 

The woman he was being forced to marry was long gone, never coming back and he had only spent about a half an hour with her in total anyway? It's sad, but it's not like they had been involved in some grand love affair before being torn apart by fate?

 

In comparison, we see that Gorim found someone and had gotten married by the time a female Aeducan finally shows up in Denerim. Was he supposed to simply wait in his exile for her, knowing she could have dead and rotting in the Deep Roads? Or had perished at Ostagar even if she had beaten the odds, reached the surface and joined the Wardens?

 

Keep in mind, we're talking about a man who was potentially in love with and served someone faithfully as her second for years... and he decided to move on with his life! Compared to Gorim and a female Aeducan, it's clear that Soris barely knew and didn't even like Valora all that much?

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Soris didn't abandon her. He was thrown into a dungeon for months, while she was sold as a slave. How is that his fault?
 
Likewise, what is wrong with him finding love with someone else, or that the woman he happened to find love with was human?
 
The woman he was being forced to marry was long gone, never coming back and he had only spent about a half an hour with her in total anyway? It's sad, but it's not like they had been involved in some grand love affair before being torn apart by fate?
 
In comparison, we see that Gorim found someone and had gotten married by the time a female Aeducan finally shows up in Denerim. Was he supposed to simply wait in his exile for her, knowing she could have dead and rotting in the Deep Roads? Or had perished at Ostagar even if she had beaten the odds, reached the surface and joined the Wardens?
 
Keep in mind, we're talking about a man who was potentially in love with and served someone faithfully as her second for years... and he decided to move on with his life! Compared to Gorim and a female Aeducan, it's clear that Soris barely knew and didn't even like Valora all that much?

Ok if that's what you believe to be true it's all cool, but I still think he's a weakling because when I played a female city elf when I finally have Vaughn to a corner, he'll talk himself out of being killed by offering me money. And Soris tried to convince me to take the money from a rapist and a murderer, he is a coward and he has no backbone. It just seems to me that he rather be with a human who he loved greatly rather being with an elf who was his potential partner who doesn't even try to get to know her. What so special about a human that he loves so much and not his own?

[lynroy]

Uh, maybe the fact that he loves her? Just a shot in the dark though. Why would anyone want to be with a person they loved?

[Hellion Rex]

Uh, maybe the fact that he loves her? Just a shot in the dark though. Why would anyone want to be with a person they loved?

I mean, perish the thought, right?

[lynroy]

Such an absurd notion. Tsk tsk

[Sifr]

Ok if that's what you believe to be true it's all cool...

 

You keep saying that... failing to realise that it is not what anyone believes to be true, it's what the evidence shows to be true.

[DuskWanderer]

Just ignore him, you're getting nowhere. You can't fight crazy people's headcanon. 

 

Anyway, back to Celene: She is no savior of Orlais, she's everything that's bad about Gaspard without the good qualities. While I love the idea of forcing the three of them into a truce because it's exactly what they all deserve, I need to think of Orlais and not my spite. Thus, she gets gutted like a fish. 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

You keep saying that... failing to realise that it is not what anyone believes to be true, it's what the evidence shows to be true.

I just go what I believe. Everyone is different and not everyone has to believe the same thing, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and everyone has the right to express their feelings about certain things. And it's a shame that people are hostile @ someone who has a different beliefs.

[Sifr]

 

Anyway, back to Celene: She is no savior of Orlais, she's everything that's bad about Gaspard without the good qualities. While I love the idea of forcing the three of them into a truce because it's exactly what they all deserve, I need to think of Orlais and not my spite. Thus, she gets gutted like a fish. 

 

Gaspard's a rambunctious fool, who prefers to be hunting and drinking rather than ruling, as well as fighting wars for the sake of glory.

 

Celene is an intelligent and pragmatic woman, who believes that a ruler should actually manage the country, it's politics and seek to achieve peace.

 

In other words, Gaspard is the Cailan of the Orlesian Empire, while Celene is the Anora.

[Jaison1986]

Gaspard's a rambunctious fool, who prefers to be hunting and drinking rather than ruling, as well as fighting wars for the sake of glory.

 

Celene is an intelligent and pragmatic woman, who believes that a ruler should actually manage the country, it's politics and seek to achieve peace.

 

In other words, Gaspard is the Cailan of the Orlesian Empire, while Celene is the Anora.

 

That gave me a laugh, nice one man

[Hellion Rex]

Personally, I tried to evaluate all three characters before casting judgment. All my good thoughts went out the window with Briala when we learned she was offing all the elves that knew of her amorous relationship with Celene.

The only really thing I liked about Celene was how she was building up the university, something I'm praying Gaspard is gonna take advantage of and invest some good money in.

[BansheeOwnage]

Uh, maybe the fact that he loves her? Just a shot in the dark though. Why would anyone want to be with a person they loved?

You beat me to it. Crazy thought, right? That someone would want to be with someone they loved instead of giving someone they didn't love "a chance" by marrying them?

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Uh, maybe the fact that he loves her? Just a shot in the dark though. Why would anyone want to be with a person they loved?

Now it's just my personal opinion: I believe the reason why he want to be with a human, is because he want to be accepted into a human society and he feels that he doesn't want to associate to be with the elves, because he doesn't want to identify with them because they're the oppressed. Thus he has issues of being an elf because of what elves have gone through, so he wants to marry a human as a way of "transcending his race" and to feel like he's special because he's with a human. This is the most common problems and risk factors of IRs because PoC have issues with their ethnicity.

[raging_monkey]

Coocoocaine logic

[Sifr]

Now it's just my personal opinion: I believe the reason why he want to be with a human, is because he want to be accepted into a human society and he feels that he doesn't want to associate to be with the elves, because he doesn't want to identify with them because they're the oppressed. Thus he has issues of being an elf because of what elves have gone through, so he wants to marry a human as a way of "transcending his race" and to feel like he's special because he's with a human. This is the most common problems and risk factors of IRs because PoC have issues with their ethnicity.

 

Or he married a human because y'know, he loved her?

 

Does Carver want to reject humanity because he has a crush on Merrill? Does Isabela and Bull want to reject being their respective genders and races, because they seek to nail anyone that moves? Or is it because people simply cannot help who they are attracted to and fall in love with?

 

I think we can assume love is the reason he married her, since it's what the epilogue states, rather than Soris having some kind of internal self-loathing over being an Elf, that he never once demonstrated otherwise.

 

Soris even has kids with her in the slide where they move to Highever, which shows that neither cared about any kind of social stigma that their interracial marriage or mixed-race children would cause, because their love was that strong.

 

The only self-loathing based around race we encounter is from Michel, who frequently over-compensates to try to hide his elven heritage, by engaging in petty racism towards the elves he's around in Masked Empire. We don't see anything like that ever from Soris.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Coocoocaine logic

Champagne and reefer, baby!

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Or he married a human because y'know, he loved her?
 
Does Carver want to reject humanity because he has a crush on Merrill? Does Isabela and Bull want to reject being their respective genders and races, because they seek to nail anyone that moves? Or is it because people simply cannot help who they are attracted to and fall in love with?
 
I think we can assume love is the reason he married her, since it's what the epilogue states, rather than Soris having some kind of internal self-loathing over being an Elf, that he never once demonstrated otherwise.
 
Soris even has kids with her in the slide where they move to Highever, which shows that neither cared about any kind of social stigma that their interracial marriage or mixed-race children would cause, because their love was that strong.
 
The only self-loathing based around race we encounter is from Michel, who frequently over-compensates to try to hide his elven heritage, by engaging in petty racism towards the elves he's around in Masked Empire. We don't see anything like that ever from Soris.

As I said it's just my opinion. I start by looking at a society and hierarchy and they put elves as the poor lower-class citizens of a human society, they practicing human religion as a way of worshipping humans, meaning they want to be with humans as a way of being "accepted" by human society to feel better about themselves because of elves hate themselves, being ashamed of being an elf, don't want to associate with elves because of what they were raised by a society that looks down at them (Take Sera for example). And Soris doesn't want to associate with elves because he has issues of being an elf, just because of a toxic system that elves have to go through and he's ashamed of himself because of it. That is why I believe he has issues of bring an elf and he wanted to be with a human woman to feel like he's being accepted. That's an issue of why I don't see eye to eye with IRs because of it.

Spoiler

If you want to see it for yourself go to cuteshitefourums.com and type 5 Reasons to Avoid IRs. But only if you want to.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Has he brought up that the white people humans in interracial romances are only with black people elves because they are seen as merely prizes and also to breed them out of existence yet? 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

^ And here is my biggest fan! It's nice to hear from you again!

[BansheeOwnage]

Now it's just my personal opinion: I believe the reason why he want to be with a human, is because he want to be accepted into a human society and he feels that he doesn't want to associate to be with the elves, because he doesn't want to identify with them because they're the oppressed. Thus he has issues of being an elf because of what elves have gone through, so he wants to marry a human as a way of "transcending his race" and to feel like he's special because he's with a human. This is the most common problems and risk factors of IRs because PoC have issues with their ethnicity.

That's not how love works. There's no choice involved there. I'm not attracted to women because I want to rebel against the sexist patriarchal society or some such, I'm attracted to women because I am. Same deal with Soris, he loves her because he does.

 

As I said it's just my opinion. I start by looking at a society and hierarchy and they put elves as the poor lower-class citizens of a human society, they practicing human religion as a way of worshipping humans, meaning they want to be with humans as a way of being "accepted" by human society to feel better about themselves because of elves hate themselves, being ashamed of being an elf, don't want to associate with elves because of what they were raised by a society that looks down at them (Take Sera for example). And Soris doesn't want to associate with elves because he has issues of being an elf, just because of a toxic system that elves have to go through and he's ashamed of himself because of it. That is why I believe he has issues of bring an elf and he wanted to be with a human woman to feel like he's being accepted. That's an issue of why I don't see eye to eye with IRs because of it.

Spoiler

If you want to see it for yourself go to cuteshitefourums.com and type 5 Reasons to Avoid IRs. But only if you want to.

Yeah, you're really overthinking this. Overthinking why people are attracted to one another isn't going to prove to be a productive exercise. People can't help who they fall in love with, and they definitely don't go through whatever thought-process you just wrote out to decide who to fall in love with.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

That's not how love works. There's no choice involved there. I'm not attracted to women because I want to rebel against the sexist patriarchal
society or some such, I'm attracted to women because I am. Same deal with Soris, he loves her because he does.

Yeah, you're really overthinking this. Overthinking why people are attracted to one another isn't going to prove to be a productive exercise. People can't help who they fall in love with, and they definitely don't go through whatever thought-process you just wrote out to decide who to fall in love with.

If that's how you see it that's cool, but I still believe he wants a human as a way to alleviate his insecurities of bring an elf. And I witnessed first hand of these IRs issues from my personal experience and I've done research of these kind of issues.

Spoiler

If you want to look into the matter go yo YouTube and type Tyra Banks Show Self-Hate and look @ celebrities: Wesley Snipes, Taye Diggs, OJ Simpson, Tiger Woods, and Charles Barkley and compare/contrast these self hating issues affect these men into IRs.

[phoray]

Oh, I'd missed or at least misunderstood why that elf was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Briala is killing elves who know her secret? It's kinda wow, what a hypocrite moment, ya?

That kinda makes me think Celene alone should rule without the confused Briala.

[Steelcan]

If that's how you see it that's cool, but I still believe he wants a human as a way to alleviate his insecurities of bring an elf. And I witnessed first hand of these IRs issues from my personal experience and I've done research of these kind of issues.

Spoiler

If you want to look into the matter go yo YouTube and type Tyra Banks Show Self-Hate and look @ celebrities: Wesley Snipes, Taye Diggs, OJ Simpson, Tiger Woods, and Charles Barkley and compare/contrast these self hating issues affect these men into IRs.

I can find all sorts of nonsense on youtube, it being filmed and uploaded does not magically imbue it with credibility

[Wulfram]

Oh, I'd missed or at least misunderstood why that elf was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Briala is killing elves who know her secret? It's kinda wow, what a hypocrite moment, ya?

That kinda makes me think Celene alone should rule without the confused Briala.

Briala's guilt in that doesn't seem entirely clear to me. I've never been sure whether or not we should count that with the Gaspard blackmail evidence that's clearly set up/