2341 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

I don't know. The reconciliation option just really bugged me, that whole relationship is unhealthy.

Maybe, but do the two of them really deserve any better?

[Xilizhra]

Maybe, but do the two of them really deserve any better?

Briala's a decent sort. And Celene... well, isn't, but since basically all of the unhealthiness was her fault, I don't feel bad about a bit of dishonest schmoozing to make the reconciliation work.

[Steelcan]

Briala's a decent sort. And Celene... well, isn't, but since basically all of the unhealthiness was her fault, I don't feel bad about a bit of dishonest schmoozing to make the reconciliation work.

and I don't feel bad leaving her to deal with acute stomach pain and Briala gets a short drop and sudden drop

 

they can make up at the Maker's side if they want.

[Xilizhra]

and I don't feel bad leaving her to deal with acute stomach pain and Briala gets a short drop and sudden drop

 

they can make up at the Maker's side if they want.

Now, what did that have to do with anything?

[Heimdall]

Briala's a decent sort. And Celene... well, isn't, but since basically all of the unhealthiness was her fault, I don't feel bad about a bit of dishonest schmoozing to make the reconciliation work.

But Briala did try to murder her own subordinates for knowing about her and Celene. She's not that decent.

[Xilizhra]

But Briala did try to murder her own subordinates for knowing about her and Celene. She's not that decent.

Allegedly. It was one of Florianne's harlequins who tried to kill said subordinate, and Briala didn't know about Florianne's plot. I think that woman was just jumping to conclusions due to being angry at Briala for past relationships.

[Barquiel]

Well, Briala was willing to prolong the civil war which resulted in death and suffering for many people (humans and elves) that are caught in the middle. She is no angel...but I guess nobody hanging out at the Orlesian court is.

But even with metagaming I can't think of any reason why my inquisitor would want to side with Gaspard. Celene was always a decent ruler who was peaceful and looked to strengthen Orlais via internal reforms rather than warmongering. And with Briala at her side, she would at least try to make the world a better place for the elves...and it should be more sustainable than Briala ruling through Gaspard as well.

[Jaison1986]

Well, Briala was willing to prolong the civil war which resulted in death and suffering for many people (humans and elves) that are caught in the middle. She is no angel...but I guess nobody hanging out at the Orlesian court is.

But even with metagaming I can't think of any reason why my inquisitor would want to side with Gaspard. Celene was always a decent ruler who was peaceful and looked to strengthen Orlais via internal reforms rather than warmongering. And with Briala at her side, she would at least try to make the world a better place for the elves...and it should be more sustainable than Briala ruling through Gaspard as well.

 

Because Gaspard is a military minded men. He is the perfect ally for the times the Inquisitor finds him/herself in. He is also completely against the petty game, wich is a plus in my book. Not to mention the legitimate heir of the throne. Celene did stole it from him through her machinations.

[Xilizhra]

Because Gaspard is a military minded men. He is the perfect ally for the times the Inquisitor finds him/herself in. He is also completely against the petty game, wich is a plus in my book. Not to mention the legitimate heir of the throne. Celene did stole it from him through her machinations.

And just how is a position given to you by birth more legitimate than one given to you by council decree? Moreover, the ruler of Orlais doesn't need to be directing the armies personally, and probably shouldn't be; you don't need someone "military-minded" to handle a war you're already in, especially when someone else is doing most of the fighting.

[Barquiel]

Because Gaspard is a military minded men. He is the perfect ally for the times the Inquisitor finds him/herself in. He is also completely against the petty game, wich is a plus in my book. Not to mention the legitimate heir of the throne. Celene did stole it from him through her machinations.

Gaspard is a warmongerer, but he was never portrayed as as an unstoppable force or a military mastermind. As far as we know, his and Celene's forces were both pretty evenly matched and Gaspard wasn't winning the civil war or even coming close. It seems to me that Celene's generals are just as competent. And Gaspard may not like the game, but in the end he plays it as dirty, if not dirtier than Celene. And even if he wants to remove it from Orlesian politics entirely, there is absolutely no way he could possibly do that.

Also, my inquisitor couldn't care less about his birthright. Celene was Orlais savior after Florian's rule had brought the empire to the brink of collapse...and we're told that the country has never been quite so prosperous as it is now. Again, Celene has her problems, but she is basically a better ruler than Gaspard could hope to be in every way. She has supported the arts, opened the University to commoners and was working on opening it to Elves. Gaspard? All we know is that he wants to a start a war... either with Ferelden or some other nation. Cool? But war isn't going to help anyone, it's going to extend the civil war and cause more harm for Thedas as a whole. I think the country's wellbeing is more important than Gaspard's birthright.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Gaspard is a warmongerer, but he was never portrayed as as an unstoppable force or a military mastermind. As far as we know, his and Celene's forces were both pretty evenly matched and Gaspard wasn't winning the civil war or even coming close. It seems to me that Celene's generals are just as competent. And Gaspard may not like the game, but in the end he plays it as dirty, if not dirtier than Celene. And even if he wants to remove it from Orlesian politics entirely, there is absolutely no way he could possibly do that.

Also, my inquisitor couldn't care less about his birthright. Celene was Orlais savior after Florian's rule had brought the empire to the brink of collapse...and we're told that the country has never been quite so prosperous as it is now. Again, Celene has her problems, but she is basically a better ruler than Gaspard could hope to be in every way. She has supported the arts, opened the University to commoners and was working on opening it to Elves. Gaspard? All we know is that he wants to a start war... either with Ferelden or some other nation. Cool? But war isn't going to help anyone, it's going to extend the civil war and cause more harm for Thedas as a whole. I think the country's wellbeing is more important than Gaspard's birthright.

Don't forget how Gaspard these quotes should give you an idea of what kind of person Gaspard is:

 

“Several of the professors have been asked to write papers about the elves. One will be saying that their large ears mark them as similar to rabbits, which means that they are simple prey animals, relying upon base instinct for survival and not to be trusted. Another will claim that anyone fornicating with an elf is insulting the Maker, as one who lies with animals.” – Pg. 66

 

“There are many like us, men who are willing to save Orlais from the woman who would give it to our enemies with a kiss and a wave.” – pg. 30

 

You thought they were right to be angry at Mainserai, so instead of raising an army and stomping out the rebels, you wrung your hands and sent a few extra patrols and hoped that everything would eventually quiet down. You taught the elves to fight, just like a bad horseman teaches his charger to buck and bite.” He shook his head. “You taught them to attack the guards, when you allowed it to go unpunished. You taught them to dream of a life outside the slums where they belonged. And if Celene hadn’t slapped shackles on her lover and burned those slums, you would have taught every damned knife-ear in Orlais to stand up against us.” – pg. 93

 

“A good war unites the empire. Maybe we can let those idiots in the Chantry and the Circle kill people outside our borders instead of inside them.” – pg. 37

[Jaison1986]

Gaspard is a warmongerer, but he was never portrayed as as an unstoppable force or a military mastermind. As far as we know, his and Celene's forces were both pretty evenly matched and Gaspard wasn't winning the civil war or even coming close. It seems to me that Celene's generals are just as competent. And Gaspard may not like the game, but in the end he plays it as dirty, if not dirtier than Celene. And even if he wants to remove it from Orlesian politics entirely, there is absolutely no way he could possibly do that.

Also, my inquisitor couldn't care less about his birthright. Celene was Orlais savior after Florian's rule had brought the empire to the brink of collapse...and we're told that the country has never been quite so prosperous as it is now. Again, Celene has her problems, but she is basically a better ruler than Gaspard could hope to be in every way. She has supported the arts, opened the University to commoners and was working on opening it to Elves. Gaspard? All we know is that he wants to a start a war... either with Ferelden or some other nation. Cool? But war isn't going to help anyone, it's going to extend the civil war and cause more harm for Thedas as a whole. I think the country's wellbeing is more important than Gaspard's birthright.

 

Shouldn't it tell you something that a rebelious "usurper" is managing to fight the leader of the very empire to a stand still? He has less men and resources then Celene, and yet he manages to put a fight against her. And so are we forced to play the game. Gaspard tells you he desipises it, but if he wants to beat Celene he needs to go along with it. He doesn't play dirty becuase he likes it, but because he doesn't have a choice. There is a difference. In the end, is best to at least try fighting the game rather then just let the petty nobles do as they please, wasting time, money and lives on a worthless struggle that means nothing.

 

Good for Celene. But as far as I'm concerned, being a liberal leader doesn't condone Celene from being a corrupt bastard that is rotten to the very core. I honesly don't see what's wrong with Gaspard keeping Tevinter at bay. He restores Orlais to it's former might and through our influence, we point him at the right enemies.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Shouldn't it tell you something that a rebelious "usurper" is managing to fight the leader of the very empire to a stand still? He has less men and resources then Celene, and yet he manages to put a fight against her. And so are we forced to play the game. Gaspard tells you he desipises it, but if he wants to beat Celene he needs to go along with it. He doesn't play dirty becuase he likes it, but because he doesn't have a choice. There is a difference. In the end, is best to at least try fighting the game rather then just let the petty nobles do as they please, wasting time, money and lives on a worthless struggle that means nothing.

 

Good for Celene. But as far as I'm concerned, being a liberal leader doesn't condone Celene from being a corrupt bastard that is rotten to the very core. I honesly don't see what's wrong with Gaspard keeping Tevinter at bay. He restores Orlais to it's former might and through our influence, we point him at the right enemies.

You do realize the Inquisition stops having any power after Trespasser right?

 

Also, you are fine with someone who is a blatant racist and plans on a war that will kill innocent people? Read the Stolen Throne and see how horrible Orlais was to Ferelden for why Gaspard is a bastard that deserves to die.

[Jaison1986]

You do realize the Inquisition stops having any power after Trespasser right?

 

Also, you are fine with someone who is a blatant racist and plans on a war that will kill innocent people? Read the Stolen Throne and see how horrible Orlais was to Ferelden for why Gaspard is a bastard that deserves to die.

 

And? Why should that stop Gaspard from fighting Tevinter? 

 

Hypocrite. The mages get a lot of innocents killed for their cause, but you fully support their plight even so. I don't care he is racist or whatever else you accuse him to be. He is a pragmatic realist that focus on the bigger picture and puts the nobility at bay. He deserves a medal for not letting the game corrupt him like it did to many others.

[Barquiel]

Shouldn't it tell you something that a rebelious "usurper" is managing to fight the leader of the very empire to a stand still? He has less men and resources then Celene, and yet he manages to put a fight against her. And so are we forced to play the game. Gaspard tells you he desipises it, but if he wants to beat Celene he needs to go along with it. He doesn't play dirty becuase he likes it, but because he doesn't have a choice. There is a difference. In the end, is best to at least try fighting the game rather then just let the petty nobles do as they please, wasting time, money and lives on a worthless struggle that means nothing.
 
Good for Celene. But as far as I'm concerned, being a liberal leader doesn't condone Celene from being a corrupt bastard that is rotten to the very core. I honesly don't see what's wrong with Gaspard keeping Tevinter at bay. He restores Orlais to it's former might and through our influence, we point him at the right enemies.

Why do you think Gaspard has less men? Cullen says most of the chevaliers sided with him and we know the biggest reason Gaspard gained support from the nobility was because he race baited them about Celene forcing the university to teach their children elves and humans were equal. And of course he has a choice. Celene is one of the best rulers Orlais ever had and there is no reason to depose her. He plays the game because he's power hungry, just like every other orlesian noble.

Celene never had any problems to secure Orlais's borders before Gaspard started the civil war for no good reason, and Tevinter has other problems anyway (...and honestly, I find Tevinter the lesser evil compared to the qunari).

[Jaison1986]

Why do you think Gaspard has less men? Cullen says most of the chevaliers sided with him and we know the biggest reason Gaspard gained support from the nobility was because he race baited them about Celene forcing the university to teach their children elves and humans were equal. And of course he has a choice. Celene is one of the best rulers Orlais ever had and there is no reason to depose her. He plays the game because he's power hungry, just like every other orlesian noble.

Celene never had any problems to secure Orlais's borders before Gaspard started the civil war for no good reason, and Tevinter has other problems anyway (...and honestly, I find Tevinter the lesser evil compared to the qunari).

 

And Celene is not? She is no better then Gaspard. She merely wears a friendly mask that makes her look like the better person.

 

That's you. I think both should be wiped out, or at least subjulgated.

[Xilizhra]

That's you. I think both should be wiped out, or at least subjulgated.

If Tevinter, Orlais.

[thesuperdarkone2]

And Celene is not? She is no better then Gaspard. She merely wears a friendly mask that makes her look like the better person.

 

That's you. I think both should be wiped out, or at least subjulgated.

Celene's actions have done a lot more good than Gaspard would ever do. I'd rather the person who actually encourages education and equality to the warmongering racist.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Hey, what do you know- it's almost like I totally called this.




On four different aspects, no less, and in only two sentences. Whoot whoot!

Failing to identify and support the presumption of a genetic causation for actions of history? Check.
A poor understanding of history? Check.
Running away and changing topic when major social changes are raised? Check.
Formulating an argument based on the implicit accusation of ignoring 'the truth'? Check.

If you don't want to be castigated as being predictable, try not to be so predictable in your evasions.


But, to give you the credit of a better response-






To date- one non-ethno state that is primarily white (the U.S.), three European and historical imperialist states (the British, the French, the Russians), one white ethno-state that's been on the receiving end of discrimination and suppression for most of its cultural history (the Jewish state of Israel), two Person of Color (ie, non-white) ethno-states (the Chinese, the North Koreans), and two non-ethnic states that are primarily PoC (India, Pakistan).

The who's who of nations that have pursued nuclear weapons, but either failed or were forced to give up, is much longer and can be found across every continent and racial demographic, including latino, african, arabic, and asian.







The country an exceptionally aggressive Empire of Color attacked first in their effort to enforce a far more baleful racist hierarchy in East Asia.

Cool fact- most non-Japanese asian media were guarded or even critical of the recent trip by Obama to Japan. Japan's former colonial subjects do not consider Japan to be the victim of history or racist white people in WW2.



The Monguls and the Persians.

Or is that too far back, and this supposed to be a more inclusive list?

Anyone with actual familiarity with the far more recent American invasions, though, should be well enough informed to understand that the vast majority of innocent men, women, and children killed in those countries have been killed by secetarian factions within those countries, not by the Western invaders. The Americans can certainly be blamed for creating a power vacume that allowed such secetarian divisions to rise, but a historically literate arguer would have to also acknowledge that the regimes toppled were quite happily oppressing and often massacreing their own racial minorities and dissidents depsite being PoCs themselves.




Individually? It would depend on the incident. What races have engaged in that? All of them.

Well, there might not be enough trees in some places of the world to make it a common practice, but body desecration and racial-tribalism are replete across the global south as well. The Rwanda Genocide is a cause for plenty of criticism of the West, but not because they engaged in it.


Who saved far more helpless people @ Hurricane Katrina and maintained constant helicopter flights to bring emergency relief in and take wounded people out despite reports of shooting at a helicopter?



Which ones? The ones that native American empires and tribes killed, the ones that 'white' people killed in various contacts, or the hyper-majority who died due to the unknowing consequence of first contact and subsequent but unintentional spread of diseases?








Except, and here's your intellectual failures of trying to set up an argument...

1) You haven't actually supported that 'human' (or 'white') nature is unique to 'humans' or 'whites.'
2) You haven't actually identified or supported a genetic causation of alleged nature.

And best of all-

3) Nothing you posted actually argues against things having gotten better over time.

In fact, you're actually conflating time periods in your argument, when you aren't outright negating the existence and accomplishments of persons of color, by conflating the very time periods you're being challenged to contrast.

I know that dude, anyone is capable of commiting evil and atrocities but those are wars, but if you kill an indigenous people without cause only to enslave, converting them into your religion, and create a government that is set up to benefit the invader and oppress a people and set up diversity as a way of saying "Let's get along and we should " love" each other" despite the evils you have done to people it's very twisted(http://www.alternet....white-supremacy) And DA is the same thing with human supremacy of the humans remain in power and elves at the bottom, it doesn't take much for people to see racism and oppression. And I still believe Empress Celene wants to bring the elves to heel by purging them, because they're taking a stand and it seems to me she feels like she's offended by elves who challenges her authority.

[Steelcan]

I know that dude, anyone is capable of commiting evil and atrocities but those are wars, but if you kill an indigenous people without cause only to enslave, converting them into your religion, and create a government that is set up to benefit the invader and oppress a people and set up diversity as a way of saying "Let's get along and we should " love" each other" despite the evils you have done to people it's very twisted(http://www.alternet....white-supremacy) And DA is the same thing with human supremacy of the humans remain in power and elves at the bottom, it doesn't take much for people to see racism and oppression. And I still believe Empress Celene wants to bring the elves to heel by purging them, because they're taking a stand and it seems to me she feels like she's offended by elves who challenges her authority.

truly you are a wonder of the world

[Dean_the_Young]

Somewhere in that comically inept counter-rebutal, I became more interested about hearing all the evils I've done to people.

 

Not those other people. Me personally.

 

If I could be forgiven for the sin of a WASJ in an image...

 

[fhs33721]

Shouldn't it tell you something that a rebelious "usurper" is managing to fight the leader of the very empire to a stand still? He has less men and resources then Celene, and yet he manages to put a fight against her. And so are we forced to play the game. Gaspard tells you he desipises it, but if he wants to beat Celene he needs to go along with it. He doesn't play dirty becuase he likes it, but because he doesn't have a choice. There is a difference. In the end, is best to at least try fighting the game rather then just let the petty nobles do as they please, wasting time, money and lives on a worthless struggle that means nothing.

Citation needed. Because the last time I played DAI I was under the impression that Celene had firmly reestablished her hold on most of Orlais, including Val Royeaux and Halamshiral while Gaspard was uselessly d*cking around in the Dales and was desperate enough to try and kill her during peace talks (which was also thwarted by Celene. Not to mention that Florianne if left alone would have outplayed both of them).

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Why do you keep putting "human" in quotes?
 

And what about the humans who live in the Emerald Graves? Will they be forcibly removed? That's hardly fair. And if you say it's okay because they're human, you will only further prove how prejudiced you are.

*deep sigh* The treaty can set up a win-win scenario with human inhabitants of new homes and land while the Elves claimed the Emerald Graves to themselves and establish an independent sovereign nation. It's the best solution.

[Steelcan]

*deep sigh* The treaty can set up a win-win scenario with human inhabitants of new homes and land while the Elves claimed the Emerald Graves to themselves and establish an independent sovereign nation. It's the best solution.

no it isn't, there's no telling how much it will destabilize the area, where will their economic base be, from whom will they draw soldiers, why would Orlais agree to give up this land in the first place?

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

no it isn't, there's no telling how much it will destabilize the area, where will their economic base be, from whom will they draw soldiers, why would Orlais agree to give up this land in the first place?

They'll find a way.