I don't think it will work out that well for you. Regardless of what the KE tree does, remember that the majority of your abilities will come from the regular mage tree.
More like half, if you're using all of the KE actives. In addition, Fade Step seems absolutely perfect for this style of play.
More like half, if you're using all of the KE actives. In addition, Fade Step seems absolutely perfect for this style of play.
I don't mean in terms of what you can have available, but rather from what you can pick.
More like half, if you're using all of the KE actives. In addition, Fade Step seems absolutely perfect for this style of play.
Exactly... if we stay within the 8 skill limit and mostly dip into other trees for passives, we are likely to have 3 KE actives and a Focus, so that's half the mapped abilities right there. Add in Barrier and Fade Step, and whatever element(s) we choose will mostly be for flavor. I'm planning something just a bit different from that, but it's seems pretty easy to use up most of our powers on KE-specific or melee oriented spells.
I don't mean in terms of what you can have available, but rather from what you can pick.
Have you checked out the description for Blizzard yet? It's a cloud of ice that surrounds the caster, causing cold damage and freezing nearby targets. Right before that is the Ice Armor passive, which grants +50% damage resistance if the mage is near a frozen enemy or a persistent Winter spell... like Blizzard. 
See what I'm getting at here? Some of the spells work really well with close quarters fighting. There is something similar in Storm... I think it's the Stormbringer passive that randomly hits nearby enemies with lightning bolts. There are many ways that this could work out...
Also, assuming that at least 1 KE melee attack is an Eldritch Detonator, then freezing or shocking enemies and then lighting them up with a powerful attack could be a very effective tactic.
Sounds good as long as they have learned from dao where the arcane warrior was horrendoulsy over powered.
Mages were horrendously overpowered in DAO. Giving them armor and tankiness made it worse. The mother is soloable on nightmare with Arcane Warrior, Battle Mage and Blood Mage.
Have you checked out the description for Blizzard yet? It's a cloud of ice that surrounds the caster, causing cold damage and freezing nearby targets. Right before that is the Ice Armor passive, which grants +50% damage resistance if the mage is near a frozen enemy or a persistent Winter spell... like Blizzard.
Also, assuming that at least 1 KE melee attack is an Eldritch Detonator, then freezing or shocking enemies and then lighting them up with a powerful attack could be a very effective tactic.
That only works if you then abandon your tank, or otherwise micromanage two melee warriors pretty far apart.
That might work for some, but I actually don't like multiple melees.
That only works if you then abandon your tank, or otherwise micromanage two melee warriors pretty far apart.
That might work for some, but I actually don't like multiple melees.
In that case I can understand why you wouldn't really be a fan of this...
Why do I get the feeling that it's going to be just like any other mage, but who can cast a barrier like a warrior and put an elemental enchantment on his/her staff? 
Yeah, I guess they really wouldn't be lying about saying it was a melee-oriented mage. Gotta love that double-speak.
Why do I get the feeling that it's going to be just like any other mage, but who can cast a barrier like a warrior and put an elemental enchantment on his/her staff?
Yeah, I guess they really wouldn't be lying about saying it was a melee-oriented mage.
There are no melee attacks with staves this time, and we know that at least one ability is called a "spirit blade." I don't think it will be as basic as what you propose... I'll admit that I would be pretty disappointed if the "spirit blade" is just an attachment at the end of the staff that unlocks DA2 style melee. That would really suck.
In that case I can understand why you wouldn't really be a fan of this...
I just find it a lot of aggravating micromanaging, unless Bioware is good this time about actually telling us where the AOE for this sort ability would be, and where it always is. But I prefer a "sole" melee and otherwise ranged, unless the melee warriors are single-target exclusive, or they have ranged AOE (like fireballs).
You do make a persuasive argument about the potential of turning the KE into a close combat specialist. It just leaves me the problem of what to actually do with a warrior.
Mages were horrendously overpowered in DAO. Giving them armor and tankiness made it worse. The mother is soloable on nightmare with Arcane Warrior, Battle Mage and Blood Mage.
The trick is not using Blood Mage. Arcane Warrior is perfectly fine when you just plain cannot stack sustained abilities. It might have a lot of armor and elemental resistances, but it lacks something very important that Warriors had: a source of knockdown/knock back immunity as well as taunts. Anything a mage has that WOULD work well as a taunt or threaten was either a) In Awakenings, or 
dealt friendly fire that would wreck your poor friends.
My favorite build in Origins is Arcane Warrior/Battle Mage/Keeper. It's a heavy willpower/mana regen+ build but oh-so satisfying as an actual spellsword instead of an auto-attacker. Just focus on the Telekinesis tree, the Glyphs, and of course grab Spell Might, Haste and Mana Clash.
I just find it a lot of aggravating micromanaging, unless Bioware is good this time about actually telling us where the AOE for this sort ability would be, and where it always is. But I prefer a "sole" melee and otherwise ranged, unless the melee warriors are single-target exclusive, or they have ranged AOE (like fireballs).
You do make a persuasive argument about the potential of turning the KE into a close combat specialist. It just leaves me the problem of what to actually do with a warrior.
Friendly fire is indeed a problem when dealing with a warrior and a melee-mage, but I think it will be manageable. I like to switch things up in battle, so I have no problem with odd party compositions and builds. For example, I am planning to use Iron Bull as a S&S warrior who focuses mainly on party buffs like Horn of Valor. If I put him on the same team as an Ice Elemental KE, the two of us can theoretically switch off between buffing and ranged attacks while the other 2 party members do whatever (probably ranged damage and combos)... Bull will have Harpoon ready just in case an enemy tries to target somebody I don't want them to, or the Inquisitor can freeze them in one of many ways. So long as the enemy is locked down at all times and every party member can contribute to or exploit this in some way, I don't really care what class they are...
So it really depends on how each party member is built... there is probably an optimal way to do this, but I probably won't be following that path. Deviating from standard builds and tactics keeps things interesting for me... the main idea is to make use of the KE's versatility as a hybrid class and to make sure that the party supports whatever the KE brings to the table. YMMV of course... I understand that this type of play style isn't for everyone.
One other thing... Shield Wall has an upgrade that boosts the Armor of nearby allies when used, so it seems that at least some of the skills were designed with multiple melee party members in mind...
The trick is not using Blood Mage. Arcane Warrior is perfectly fine when you just plain cannot stack sustained abilities. It might have a lot of armor and elemental resistances, but it lacks something very important that Warriors had: a source of knockdown/knock back immunity as well as taunts. Anything a mage has that WOULD work well as a taunt or threaten was either a) In Awakenings, or
My favorite build in Origins is Arcane Warrior/Battle Mage/Keeper. It's a heavy willpower/mana regen+ build but oh-so satisfying as an actual spellsword instead of an auto-attacker. Just focus on the Telekinesis tree, the Glyphs, and of course grab Spell Might, Haste and Mana Clash.
Yes, my favorite Warden is a Surana who is obsessed with the magics of her ancestors. She wears Ancient Elven Armor and dual wields Spellweaver and a dagger, and uses a combination of cold spells for CC and lightning spells for DPS. I may add Keeper to the mix, that's a great idea!
Yes, my favorite Warden is a Surana who is obsessed with the magics of her ancestors. She wears Ancient Elven Armor and dual wields Spellweaver and a dagger, and uses a combination of cold spells for CC and lightning spells for DPS. I may add Keeper to the mix, that's a great idea!
yeah, my Battle Mage I described was an elf too. Was figuring much along the same lines, preserving ancient arts and spreading them to his teammates as well.
I'm pretty sure my warden taught every mage that served under him how to be an Arcane Warrior, from a flavor perspective just as much as an "it's powerful" perspective. After all, the best way to keep knowledge from being lost is to teach it to as many people as you can.
yeah, my Battle Mage I described was an elf too. Was figuring much along the same lines, preserving ancient arts and spreading them to his teammates as well.
I'm pretty sure my warden taught every mage that served under him how to be an Arcane Warrior, from a flavor perspective just as much as an "it's powerful" perspective. After all, the best way to keep knowledge from being lost is to teach it to as many people as you can.
I'm out of likes, and I do the same thing. 
That having been said, my KE will be also be an elf mage, who is just starting to get the realization that the ancient elves may have messed up... Also I'm sure that Cullen will be able to convince her that the Andrasteans have had the right idea all along. (Yes, I went there.)
I really hope the KE plays like the Arcane Warrior did. I'm okay with the "not as tanky" comment because I didn't use the AW as a tank anyway. But Vivienne is a KE and she sure doesn't look like she's ready for melee combat at all. "Ew, I got some blood on me."
I'm out of likes, and I do the same thing.
That having been said, my KE will be also be an elf mage, who is just starting to get the realization that the ancient elves may have messed up... Also I'm sure that Cullen will be able to convince her that the Andrasteans have had the right idea all along. (Yes, I went there.)
I really hope the KE plays like the Arcane Warrior did. I'm okay with the "not as tanky" comment because I didn't use the AW as a tank anyway. But Vivienne is a KE and she sure doesn't look like she's ready for melee combat at all. "Ew, I got some blood on me."
Yeah, speaking of Vivienne... I'm not sure exactly what the KE abilities will be like, but I don't really trust the AI to control one properly without getting themselves or most of the team killed. I'll probably have Vivienne focus exclusively on ranged magic and only spend points in KE to get to the Focus power (maybe an interesting passive or two). A KE and warrior I can deal with, but 2 KEs, one of which is controlled by the AI, sounds like a headache in the making...
I just find it a lot of aggravating micromanaging, unless Bioware is good this time about actually telling us where the AOE for this sort ability would be, and where it always is. But I prefer a "sole" melee and otherwise ranged, unless the melee warriors are single-target exclusive, or they have ranged AOE (like fireballs).
You do make a persuasive argument about the potential of turning the KE into a close combat specialist. It just leaves me the problem of what to actually do with a warrior.
So wait, you have a problem with a potential melee Mage, because then you wouldn't know what to do with the Warrior?
Or you have trouble micromanaging the friendly fire? Because the only friendly fire would be from Blizzard, if they cast it, but there are other persistent Ice spells that can trigger Ice Armor.
There won't be a problem.
If it's the first, it's about different aesthetics, which is a good thing. Also, they might actually prove to have quite the synergy.
Armor is still class locked? Sigh. You had one job, Bioware.
That only works if you then abandon your tank, or otherwise micromanage two melee warriors pretty far apart.
That might work for some, but I actually don't like multiple melees.
Eh? That's like one of the best balanced party setups.
1. Tank
2. DPS warrior
3. Range rogue (IE Varric)
4. Mage
If the KE can fill in for a dps warrior he would fit perfectly for a well balanced party.
I'd find it harder to have 3 range characters and one tank, cause then you have no back up for your tank if someone gets to a mage or other range squishy person.
The warrior was good for cleanup and peeling people off your mages and archer while you kept the tank stuck to the high dps enemy or boss.
Armor is still class locked? Sigh. You had one job, Bioware.
With crafting they have said that you can pretty much have any character wearing the type of armor (IE mage in plate) but with stats suited to their class.
"Wield," does not mean, "hold in your hand and use." Figured I'd point that out.
With crafting they have said that you can pretty much have any character wearing the type of armor (IE mage in plate) but with stats suited to their class.
That still means if I find an awesome suit of armor, I can't wear it because it's actually plate armor, not robes with the appearance of plate armor.
Armor is still class locked? Sigh. You had one job, Bioware.
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