830 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Yes, hopefully they'll release some information on the Rift Mage spells so that we have an idea of how much damage they will do... if any mage can compete with a 2 handed warrior, it will be the Rift Mage (probably).

Yeah, I think Firestorm will absolutely wreck. And perhaps, since it's such a heavy damage spec...I wonder if there are passives as well that increase your damage, and perhaps that of your party, exponentially.

 

I wonder if some of the Knight Enchanter passives can potentially "buff" the party's abilities too. That'd be pretty cool. Perhaps some version of Heroic Offense/Defense from the old Origins Creation school?

[Shahadem]

And there we have it. 300% of staff dps isn't a lot of damage afterall.

 

Always wary of abilities that sound too good to be true, because they usually are.

[Icy Magebane]

And there we have it. 300% of staff dps isn't a lot of damage afterall.

 

Always wary of abilities that sound too good to be true, because they usually are.

When combined with the various CC properties of spells and the ability to bypass armor or exploit elemental weaknesses, I'm sure that magic is still a very powerful and effective option.  You need to look at the whole picture, not just the damage totals... and even then, ignoring the fact that armor blocks a portion of physical damage doesn't make a lot of sense...

[Icy Magebane]

Yeah, I think Firestorm will absolutely wreck. And perhaps, since it's such a heavy damage spec...I wonder if there are passives as well that increase your damage, and perhaps that of your party, exponentially.

 

I wonder if some of the Knight Enchanter passives can potentially "buff" the party's abilities too. That'd be pretty cool. Perhaps some version of Heroic Offense/Defense from the old Origins Creation school?

There's something that looks like a Barrier, an hourglass, and a spirit blade inside a shield... I have no idea whether any of that is related to party buffs.

[Hellion Rex]

There's something that looks like a Barrier, an hourglass, and a spirit blade inside a shield... I have no idea whether any of that is related to party buffs.

In that regard, I feel like the Knight Enchanter has the capacity to be a very party oriented mage, and I'd like to see their spells and passives reflect that.

[Saiphas85]

So, was looking at the crafted staff and something caught my eye.  I wonder if the + 50 damage is straight added to the weapon damage for the calculation prior to Sirit Blade's multiplication (i.e. is it 119 against demons and 69 against others?)  If it is then that 300% becomes 300+ damage for a 10 mana cost swing.  Also the Fade Bomb (what ive taken to calling the secondary of fade cloak) would then be 1100+ damage, nothing to sneeze at.

[Icy Magebane]

In that regard, I feel like the Knight Enchanter has the capacity to be a very party oriented mage, and I'd like to see their spells and passives reflect that.

Well, there doesn't seem to be any kind of "party buff" mage spec... I doubt that would fall to the necromancer or rift mage if there was one, so that only leaves KE.  It's kind of hard to predict what they will do, although I remember them saying something about a skill Cassandra had that buffed all allies within range, and there is also Horn of Valor in Battlemaster... the upgrade for Shield Wall also improves the armor of nearby allies, so warriors might be handling party buffs more so than the other classes... just a theory, of course.

 

edit... wtf... just one day without a typo... That's all I ask.

[Shahadem]

When combined with the various CC properties of spells and the ability to bypass armor or exploit elemental weaknesses, I'm sure that magic is still a very powerful and effective option.  You need to look at the whole picture, not just the damage totals... and even then, ignoring the fact that armor blocks a portion of physical damage doesn't make a lot of sense...

 

I was looking at the whole picture, that's why I questioned whether 300% of staff dps was 300% of staff dps because staff was so much lower than the base dps of a melee weapon which it is. And that isn't even factoring in how much more damage meleers will do when using their skills. So 300% of staff dps is barely on par with the base dps of a melee weapon, and meleers will then do even more damage than that with their melee attacks. So 300% of staff damage is actually lower than what a real melee class is going to be doing.

 

This places KE in a rather awkward position, as players want to play them as a melee mage, either as a mage tank or as a mage rogue, however they don't have enough damage mitigation or dps to fulfill either desire.

[Hellion Rex]

Well, there doesn't seem to be any kind of "party buff" mage spec... I doubt that would fall to the necromancer or rift mage if there was one, so that only leaves KE.  It's kind of hard to predict what they will do, although I remember them saying something about a skill Cassandra had that buffed all allies within range, and there is also Horn of Valor in Battlemaster... the upgrade for Shield Wall also improves the armor of nearby allies, so warriors might be handling party buffs more so than the other classes... just a theory, of course.

 

edit... wtf... just one day without a typo... That's all I ask.

True, it's just that since KE already seems to be the spec that improves most through investing Barrier, I'd just like to have at least some other measure of buffing or helping out the party.

[Icy Magebane]

I was looking at the whole picture, that's why I questioned whether 300% of staff dps was 300% of staff dps because staff was so much lower than the base dps of a melee weapon which it is. And that isn't even factoring in how much more damage meleers will do when using their skills. So 300% of staff dps is barely on par with the base dps of a melee weapon, and meleers will then do even more damage than that with their melee attacks. So 300% of staff damage is actually lower than what a real melee class is going to be doing.

 

This places KE in a rather awkward position, as players want to play them as a melee mage, either as a mage tank or as a mage rogue, however they don't have enough damage mitigation or dps to fulfill either desire.

Physical weapon damage is blocked by armor though... and no enemy that I've ever heard of is "weak to physical."  Also, staff attacks and magic spells are ranged, thus the mage is not at risk of taking damage unless they decide to move in to use the Spirit Blade or Fade Cloak (or Blizzard, I suppose...).  I should hope that warriors do more damage since they are putting themselves at risk every time they attempt to use a basic attack... the lack of flexibility in the warrior class pretty much necessitates higher weapon damage for them to be at all worthwhile.  None of that erases the many benefits of magical attacks, however... also, you may want to look at some of the possible defensive abilities that mages can learn.  Ice Armor grants 50% damage reduction while near a a frozen enemy or persistent ice spell (like Blizzard).  There are actually several defensive boosts out there that can help shape the KE to suit the player's desires...

 

But tbh, I value the flexibility of the class and spec more than raw damage or damage mitigation... if I were that interested in those qualities I would play as an Assassin or Champion instead.  The versatility of the KE makes up for the spec's shortcomings... for me, at least.

[Icy Magebane]

True, it's just that since KE already seems to be the spec that improves most through investing Barrier, I'd just like to have at least some other measure of buffing or helping out the party.

Well, if the KE invests heavily in Spirit, they can pick up the passive that boosts mana/stamina regen for everyone within a Barrier... although I haven't actually seen anything within the KE spec that is related to Barrier except for Veiled Riposte.  That only seems to effect the KE though, not every ally within a KE's Barrier (unless the description is just poorly worded).  Where are you getting the idea that Barrier and KE are intertwined?  I don't really see that...

[Hellion Rex]

Well, if the KE invests heavily in Spirit, they can pick up the passive that boosts mana/stamina regen for everyone within a Barrier... although I haven't actually seen anything within the KE spec that is related to Barrier except for Veiled Riposte.  That only seems to effect the KE though, not every ally within a KE's Barrier (unless the description is just poorly worded).  Where are you getting the idea that Barrier and KE are intertwined?  I don't really see that...

I misspoke. I just meant that a Knight Enchanter focused on defense would probably end up investing heavily in Spirit, i.e. Barrier.

[Mornmagor]

I was looking at the whole picture, that's why I questioned whether 300% of staff dps was 300% of staff dps because staff was so much lower than the base dps of a melee weapon which it is. And that isn't even factoring in how much more damage meleers will do when using their skills. So 300% of staff dps is barely on par with the base dps of a melee weapon, and meleers will then do even more damage than that with their melee attacks. So 300% of staff damage is actually lower than what a real melee class is going to be doing.

 

This places KE in a rather awkward position, as players want to play them as a melee mage, either as a mage tank or as a mage rogue, however they don't have enough damage mitigation or dps to fulfill either desire.

 

We still don't know how much stats affect damage. If Magic has a higher conversion to damage than strength, then there you have it.

 

Weapon damage is not the damage of your weapon exactly, it's the damage of your weapon PLUS your attack or spell power, which is affected by a primary stat. Don't look at a weapon's dps and judge from that. This is the basic weapon auto attack without attack or spell power factored in.

 

This happens in a lot of games, particularly mmos.

 

Each stat has a different converion to damage or mitigation respectively, and that's why you see some weapons with high damage, and some with low, so they can have comparable damage in the end.

 

No, the KE is not in an awkward position. They can tank or damage fine, just people will have to work for it, and not faceroll.

[Icy Magebane]

I misspoke. I just meant that a Knight Enchanter focused on defense would probably end up investing heavily in Spirit, i.e. Barrier.

Well, since we have limited talent points, I'll most likely be traveling with another mage at all times.  Solas will be the only one who gets all of the Barrier passives and upgrades (since his spec is presumably the most powerful offensively), but I'm sure I can get by with Vivienne and Dorian backing up my basic version.  So long as we don't get reckless and focus on building up Guard with warriors while keeping the rogues out of harm's way, we should be fine swapping off Barrier casting.

[Hellion Rex]

Well, since we have limited talent points, I'll most likely be traveling with another mage at all times.  Solas will be the only one who gets all of the Barrier passives and upgrades, but I'm sure I can get by with Vivienne and Dorian backing up my basic version.  So long as we don't get reckless and focus on building up Guard with warriors while keeping the rogues out of harm's way, we should be fine swapping off Barrier casting.

I wonder what happens if you make 2 mages cast Barrier simultaneously? Does one just overwrite the other? Or do we get double barrier?

[Icy Magebane]

I wonder what happens if you make 2 mages cast Barrier simultaneously? Does one just overwrite the other? Or do we get double barrier?

lol I doubt it... it's probably just wasted rather than extending the health/duration of the Barrier.  Otherwise, a 4 mage party would have insanely high defense, especially if they take all of the Barrier upgrades.

[Hellion Rex]

lol I doubt it... it's probably just wasted rather than extending the health/duration of the Barrier.  Otherwise, a 4 mage party would have insanely high defense, especially if they take all of the Barrier upgrades.

It's official. I'm doing four mage dragon raids now. Viv will be on standby to heal for the party.

[Icy Magebane]

It's official. I'm doing four mage dragon raids now. Viv will be on standby to heal for the party.

So, respec everyone to exploit the dragon's elemental weakness and give each mage the maximum Barrier upgrades?  o.O  With a setup like that, I'm sure you'll kill these things a lot faster than 2 hours.

[GipsyDangeresque]

And there we have it. 300% of staff dps isn't a lot of damage afterall.

 

Always wary of abilities that sound too good to be true, because they usually are.

 

 

I think the key to understanding the smaller numbers is that spell/spirit damage from the blade is going to deduct directly from hit points unless the enemy resists that specific element, while physical damage is always going to be mitigated by armor. If an enemy's got 400 armor, then a dagger attack that reads on paper like it'll hit for 300% of 150 will do something like 100~. In the mean time, they've got no spirit resistance and our Spirit Blade reads like it's going to hit them for 160 and you know what? It actually DOES hit them for 160~ every time.

 

If Spirit Blade is terrible at dealing damage at 300/500/700% per swing, pretty much every spell in the game Mages can access are terrible at dealing damage.

 

Examples: Blizzard (75% weapon damage per second), Chain Lightning (300% weapon damage), Lightning Bolt (200% weapon damage), Energy Barrage (66% weapon damage x12, but those 12 take some time to fire off), Flashfire (300% weapon damage), Immolate (300% Weapon Damage + 75% per second for 8 seconds)

 

Now, all of these have much higher mana costs + cooldowns. They also have various animations that will effect just how efficient they actually are at dealing damage quickly compared to the simple swipe of a sword, which could also be a factor.

 

But the fact that the blade deals 700% damage to guard every hit means it will be by far the most efficient and heaviest damage dealing tool a Mage could have in their arsenal to tear it down.

 

 

The low staff damage concerns would not be a spec problem, but a class-wide concern. If staff damage is too low, it will be the Mage class as a whole to underperform compared to Rogues and Warriors. But Knight Enchanter remains one of the better ways to bring out that damage potential.

[Hellion Rex]

So, respec everyone to exploit the dragon's elemental weakness and give each mage the maximum Barrier upgrades?  o.O  With a setup like that, I'm sure you'll kill the thing a lot faster than 2 hours.

Exactly. Preparation will probably be a bit annoying, considering I will have to fix everyone afterwards too, but if it saves me time on killing dragons, then it ought to be worth it.

 

Double Firestorm, Haste, and Resurgence is gonna absolutely annihilate.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I think...we can agree that...Ancient Elven Magic trumps Chantry Circle Magic...For AW > KE. 

[Dunbartacus]

I think...we can agree that...Ancient Elven Magic trumps Chantry Circle Magic...For AW > KE. 

I... Disagree.

[Icy Magebane]

Exactly. Preparation will probably be a bit annoying, considering I will have to fix everyone afterwards too, but if it saves me time on killing dragons, then it ought to be worth it.

 

Double Firestorm, Haste, and Resurgence is gonna absolutely annihilate.

I can just imagine the look on that smug Ice Dragon's face when it realizes that Immunity to disabling effects and taunt won't help block Firestorm x2, Fire Mine x4, Immolate x4, Fire Wall x4... rofl...

[GipsyDangeresque]

I think...we can agree that...Ancient Elven Magic trumps Chantry Circle Magic...For AW > KE. 

 

Especially with Arcane Warrior Plus installed, definitely 

 

But it's the combination of Arcane Warrior and Battlemage that brought everything to life in Origins.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

I... Disagree.

 

One is a tank that can wear anything, wield anything and become almost immune to damage at all time.

 

The other has a magic sword that drains mana, goes down quickly without Barrier, needs a lot of regeneration passive to even function and to top it all of, staff damage is not that great. 

 

Accept the Elvhen magic superiority, shem.