62 réponses à ce sujet

[Jagrevi]

A thought that has struck me recently, while watching all of Bioware's recent twitch streams, and I wanted to hear what people's thoughts on this matter were.

 

EDIT: As a note, the following would apply to any character who could be in one state instead of another, not necessarily/strictly previous companions. For example, a Larius/Janeka companion slot.

 

For the vast majority of people I know, most of their favorite characters are those that are not necessarily still alive in everyone's game. I'm a big fan of Loghain and Merrill myself, but there are people for whom these characters perished, so obviously I never expected them to be a companion again. My S.O. prefers Zevran and Fenris, both of whom are dead to me - literally. Likewise, I know many people who love Alistair to death, but given all his possible statuses, would likely never expect anything more than a cameo from here on out (as being a companion is something that might only really make sense for Warden or Drunk Alistair).

 

All of this being the case though, I have to admit ... if the reason for never having any of these types of characters as companions again is it's too much investment to implement them as full party members ... I don't really need 9 companions. To be honest, 9 already feels a bit like overkill. What really appeals to me though is the idea of a more 'variable' companion slot based on my actions in past games (what feels more personal than that?). Something like a Companion slot that gets filled by Loghain/Alistair/Stroud, depending some priority and who is still alive. Or perhaps a Larius/Janeka companion if you want strictly people who have never been companions before?

 

So the question is this: In some future title, would you be willing to see a slightly smaller number of companions (perhaps 7 or 8 instead of 9) in exchange for one of them being a "variable" companion based upon your history? I'm not asking whether we should see every old character again, certainly there needs to be forward momentum in these stories, not just reliving the past. That being said,if we really want to feel like our choices make an impact on future games ... why not go all the way and give this personalization a companion slot?

 

I love Dragon Age, but for all of it's personalization, to me, it's 'evolving world' has yet to reach that level of gravity that Mass Effect's Suicide Run and potential-returning-companions had.

 

From later in the thread, just to hammer home the specific idea I'm talking about here, because I sometimes fear I am in ineffectual communicator:

 

Icy Magebane: "How about, if you gave Bevin his grandfather's sword in DA:O, then he's a party member in DA4?  If not, then some other person is the party member... maybe Amalia or something (the girl from Stone Prisoner)."

 

Exactly like that.

[Avaflame]

I wouldn't, purely because I prefer someone 'new' over someone who was a favourite of mine (I'm sorry Alistair), at least when the protagonist changes with the titles. And from a technical point of view, I'm not sure it's a realistic trade-off, not if you want the returning character to be a full companion. For your example, say we cut out Vivienne, Blackwall and Varric for one of Loghain/Alistair/Stroud. Either way that's three companions full of work and resources for everyone on the dev team. However, Vivienne, Blackwall and Varric are work and resources put into the game that EVERYONE has the potential to make use of and enjoy whereas L/A/S is the same amount of work, but have much less returns because only small percentages of people have access to them in any one playthrough.

 

But like I said, even disregarding all of that, I personally would prefer having the variety of three companions I haven't seen before.

 

Edit: Mass Effect had the same protagonist over each title, that's a completely different story.

[In Exile]

I don't like variable content. I think it leads to what we see with Ashley and Kaiden in ME3 - a reduced role and very much overlapping treatment to save on resources. I know your point is that the party should be smaller so that each exclusive companion gets their own full companion treatment, which is why we have less of them... but I think the end result is more likely the worst of both worlds. 

[NoForgiveness]

Yes. As long as they weren't half characters like Bethany and Carver. I'd want them to get the same amount of effort/content as any other companion.

[Wulfram]

No.

 

I'd trade 2 or 3 companions for more depth in the companions we've got instead.

[Jagrevi]

"I think it leads to what we see with Ashley and Kaiden in ME3"

 

You see, I actually really love the Ashley/Kaiden thing in the Mass Effect series. Then again, I only play each game once and then just look up the other "could have beens" on the internet, so perhaps this is something that mostly appeals to people who don't play the game multiple times?

[In Exile]

"I think it leads to what we see with Ashley and Kaiden in ME3"

 

You see, I actually really love the Ashley/Kaiden thing in the Mass Effect series. Then again, I only play each game once and then just look up the other "could have beens" on the internet, so perhaps this is something that mostly appeals to people who don't play the game multiple times?

 

I couldn't actually stomach ME3 enough to replay it. What I mean is that the content between them is very shared. They're not even like 1 full companion - they're more like 1/2 of 1/2, because they aren't around for half the game and for the half they are around, they're basically identical with some slightly differing dialogue. 

 

I was thinking we'd be talking about something way more impactful here - separate personal quests, different impacts on the main quest, plot branches, etc. 

[seraphymon]

yeah, that sort of thing is something I doubt we'd ever see because its just not viable.  Having said that,  I would trade  Sera, Cole, Dorian, Solas, Blackwall (Sorry gamermd)  Varric(yes I dont care for him, even oghren is better)  6 companions for 1 that I liked better like Leliana, alistair, morrigan, even lesser ones  I liked such as shale or isabela.

[Gtdef]

Since the character changes, the less ties to previous protagonists the better imo. They tend to feel forced, like fan service or "the good old days" nostalgia. Ideally what I'd like would be the option to choose what people to recruit. Not in the sense that "you don't have to recruit all the companions" rather than active recruiting, trials, auditions (for non combat members), random encounters etc.

 

I understand that to do something like that would take a lot of resources and the result could be half-assed but it was something that I hated in ME2. Recruiting irrelevant people just because the plot requires me to. I can understand it for DAO and DA2. In DAO you are essentially an outlaw, you just accept anyone who will help you. In DA2 there is no big objective so you just make friends. But in DAI you have an important mission and you are important enough to invite anyone you want. Every character will have to make a lot of sense and frankly I think that some of them don't make any. Of course it's too early to tell for sure.

[Icy Magebane]

No, but I'm not in favor of returning party members in the first place.  New protagonist should mean new party members IMO.

[Jagrevi]

"I couldn't actually stomach ME3 enough to replay it. What I mean is that the content between them is very shared."

 

Well yes, but you're not really suppose to be aware of that on an initial/only playthrough. You are right though that in alot of ways they are really just "the survivor" companion, and based on your choices their name is either Ashley or Kaidan. It's not ideal (nothing is done in real time and with a budget), but I do like it alot more than just having a set character there whose appearance, backstory and minor traits you had no influence over.

 

"I was thinking we'd be talking about something way more impactful here - separate personal quests ..."

 

Yeah, ideally, but if part of your objection would be that the different possibilities would share content, I think the minimal negative repercussion of that deserves to be addressed, This was just in that context.

[Jagrevi]

Re: Icy

 

I agree that a new protagonist should have mostly all new companions, but having one to occasionally tie the stories together and feel like the people I'm saving are important to the ongoing world would be nice as well, imo.

 

EDIT - At the very least, I think it's preferable to these 1 shot walk-on wave-at-the-camera cameos; for them to show up for a reason that's actually important.

[Majin Paul]

I wouldn't use them probably though as long as available ones still offered the right characters to fill party roles why not.
I rarely used favourite characters though, used leliana, Sanders and Carrie through my games but that's it unreasonable required it like merrill.

[Icy Magebane]

Re: Icy

 

I agree that a new protagonist should have mostly all new companions, but having one to occasionally tie the stories together and feel like the people I'm saving are important to the ongoing world would be nice as well, imo.

 

EDIT - At the very least, I think it's preferable to these 1 shot walk-on wave-at-the-camera cameos; for them to show up for a reason that's actually important.

Maybe.  Varric as a party member kind of makes sense based on his involvement in DA2, so I guess it's fine for 1-2 party members to be from previous games.  I'm not sure how easily they could implement variable returning characters, however... additional party members means additional voice actors, quests, 3D models, cutscenes, etc... that's a lot of work and money just to give players the opportunity to choose which returning member(s) they want on the team... I don't know if it would be worth it tbh.

[Jagrevi]

"additional party members means additional voice actors"

 

Well that's the heart of the question. Would you be okay having less than (in this case) 9 companions to have one be based on your previous choices? (maybe 8 instead to have, let's say, a possible Larius or Dagna companion). Not spending more money, but cutting down the total companions acquired count for each player to spread out more variation between different players.

[Navasha]

Nope, will take new in-depth characters every time over returning characters.   Cameos are great and all as sort of an easter egg, but I played out those stories and the companions that journeyed with my heroes.    Why make the world seem incredibly small and flat by only having the same characters show up every time the world needs saved?   

 

Mass Effect was a good story, but it still was ONE story told over a trilogy of games.   Dragon Age does not follow that formula.   Each story is another episode in the World of Thedas, and not the story of a single god-like hero.

[Jagrevi]

"Cameos are great and all as a sort of an easter egg, but I played out those stories and the companions that journeyed with my heroes"

 

What about all the characters who didn't journey with your heroes though?

[Icy Magebane]

"additional party members means additional voice actors"

 

Well that's the heart of the question. Would you be okay having less than (in this case) 9 companions to have one be based on your previous choices? (maybe 8 instead to have, let's say, a possible Larius or Dagna companion). Not spending more money, but cutting down the total companions acquired count for each player to spread out more variation between different players.

See... I really don't want to trade for a returning party member.  That's the problem for me.  Varric is enough, just like Anders was enough... removing a potential party member from the game (meaning, they were never created) in favor of having 2 returning characters just doesn't sound that great to me.

 

Also, think about it like this... this variable companion needs content created for 4-5 versions, possibly even more.  If the possibilities are Loghain, Zevran, Isabela, Merrill, and Nathaniel, then all of those VAs would need to be re-hired, and all of those characters would need dialogue, quests, and cutscenes generated for them even if only 1 of them will be present in game during a given playthrough... that sounds too expensive to me.  You aren't just replacing 1 character with another, you are replacing 1 with 5.

[Jagrevi]

"Also, think about it like this ... this variable companion needs content created for 4-5 versions, possibly even more."

 

Well, or just 2. Larius/Janeka, for example, only would need 2 versions. Two different people who could be "that Grey Warden". There's no need for a 4-5 version (or more!) one, that's just silly.

 

"... that sounds too expensive to me."

 

For this 5+ different character one? I agree!

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I dislike companions coming back for another game. Their story is done, we should have new and fresh characters as companions every game.

 

That's my biggest irk with Mass Effect. Same companions again and again gets boring after a while. I actually wanted new people to work with in ME3. Maybe a female Krogan/Turian squadmate or a batarian squadmate who is trying to change batarian culture. Instead it's just ME1 squad and EDI getting a body. The only two new people were Vega and Javik (Who is locked behind a bloody paywall anyway so not everyone will get to experience him anyway).

[Jagrevi]

"I dislike companions coming back for another game."

 

Alright, but what about characters who were not companions than?

[Icy Magebane]

"Also, think about it like this ... this variable companion needs content created for 4-5 versions, possibly even more."

 

Well, or just 2. Larius/Janeka, for example, only would need 2 versions. Two different people who could be "that Grey Warden". There's no need for a 4-5 version (or more!) one, that's just silly.

 

"... that sounds too expensive to me."

 

For this 5+ different character one? I agree!

lol...

 

So... replace Blackwall (the Grey Warden) with 2 possible Grey Wardens... eh... I guess that would be okay.  They weren't actual party members, so I don't mind that at all really... my main objection involved people who we've already extensively traveled with as different PCs.  I don't want to have to go through the process of getting to know Fenris all over again on a new character... that kind of replacement I would not want to see.

[Jagrevi]

re: Icy

 

That seems fair. Still, there's points where I suspect we may disagree. I never felt like I really got to know Loghain, for example. He was only a "companion" for about two missions.

[Navasha]

The problem also that you will run into as you narrow down these 'variable' companions is not all companions are liked by everyone even in the previous games.    I LOATHED Anders and Fenris by the end of DA2.    What if they were my only 2 choices for one of these variable companion slots.   I hated being forced into associations with characters I already dislike from a previous game.    Nope, I would much rather take the risk of evaluating a new companion that doesn't come with last games baggage.

[Greenface21]

Bioware already brings in far too many characters from previous installments imo.  I don't know if I can take another "swooping is bad" line from Alistair again in DAI. They should make Thedas feel diversely populated and keep building new characters with fewer tie-in's from older games.