195 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

OK, you have a good point there. I forgot about her fears with the Sebastian quest.

 

I still think the Seekers lost sight of their duty though. I'm not just talking about Kirkwall. I'm talking about all of the abuses Anders thinks about worldwide. It's the Seekers' job to crack down on that, and they didn't. And we see in Asunder how quickly Lambert chose the Templar side. He didn't even care about being a Seeker it seems. He acted like just another Templar.

All due to the Chantry's utter failure to watch their watchmen.

 

The Seekers were always more like the templars than the Chantry in any case; they also came out of the original Inquisition.

[Xilizhra]

I still think the Seekers are the answer needed to make the arrangement work. 

 

They just need to adjust their recruiting process. 

 

At least it's a good idea if you want the Circles to work. You could also just blow up stuff and let everyone kill each other in the streets. But that'll get old after awhile.

Well, play the hand you're dealt. We have to stop the templars before any reforms can be made.

[sylvanaerie]

Kinda yes and no.

 

Seekers would be analoguos to internal investigators: it's their jurisdiction but if no one reports it, they can't really deal with it. And in the beginnig of Faith Elthina explicitly tells Hawke and Sebastian to tell Sister Nightingale (ie. Leliana ie. an agent of the Divine herself, who the Seekers report to) that the things in Kirkwall are not as bad as they seem. Elthina, who knew how bad the things were between Orsino and Meredith, and who knew there was no Viscount on the throne to balance the situation, and who was aware of Alrik's proposition deliberatedly downplayed how bad the situation had gotten. The Templar Order is under the jurisdiction of the Chantry - in the absence of the Seekers, Elthina was the one responsible for Meredith and the Templars in general. Either she was completely blind and senile (which I doubt), or... she was playing politics with the new Divine (who had just come to power the year the Qunari rebelled in Kirkwall).

 

But either way: it was Elthina's job to deal with the Templars, and if she was unable, to refer the matter to the Seekers / the Divine. For whatever reason, she refused to do either. So yes, it is Elthina's fault at least. Whether that implicates the whole Chantry (as an institution) is a matter of perspective IMO, but I think it at least makes it clear there are huge problems within it.

Going to go slightly 'devil's advocate' here a moment.  I see Alrik and his "Tranquil Solution" brought up by many, but by the time Leliana is in Kirkwall, it's 3 years after Alrik was killed by Hawke.  And at the end of Anders' act 2 quest where you confront said sicko templar, he learns that yes, there was a proposal by Alrik for this, but both Elthina and Meredith shot it down.  She (Elthina) probably thought with his death that was the end of it and indeed, we don't hear any more on that plot because obviously every mage in Kirkwall wasn't a tranquil by Act 3.

 

I'm not saying she doesn't bear some of the blame for the situation, her passivity only fueled the flames even if her thought process may have been 'they must come to terms with each other on their own'.  It was her job to make them work in concert, to keep Meredith's templars in check and ensure Orsino was doing his job keeping blood mages out of the ranks of his people.  Both of them are at fault in not doing their jobs properly as quests in Act 3 certainly demonstrate that there most definitely were blood mages in the Circle and you continue to hear of templar abuses escalating.

 

I think there was plenty of fault to go around.  The system meant to protect and train young mages to use their powers responsibly broke down into a prison of horrors and those who were innocent were afraid to speak up for fear all would be punished for the sins of a few.

Yes, there were innocent people on all sides, but those in charge, Elthina, Meredith and Orsino all shoulder some of the blame for the break down of this system.

[greyishWarden]

Sebastian.

Always Sebastian.

[Icy Magebane]

Sebastian is my main man, but I would have killed Anders even if he hadn't threatened to leave.  *shrugs*

[Kitsune]

Anders for me. I really wanted to kill him in the end but then I imagined how my Hawke would feel. All these years they were friends and helped each other, while I didn't feel the same way with Sebastian (he's a good person but something is very off with him).

So in the end it's Anders, although my Hawke is angry and says "Go away so I would never see you again" but she just can't bring herself to deliver the final blow.

[LucienKyle]

Anders killed the Grand Mother and all the innocents in the chantry ,tell me one reason he can dodge this CRIME

[thruaglassdarkly]

Frequently neither.  My Hawke is pretty disgusted with both of them in that moment.

[Inanna Athanasia]

I use to really like Sebastian and even "romanced" him once (if you call it a romance), but as time went by I played with him less and less and finally deleted his DLC. I find him way to whiny. I hate he harps on everyone about religion too. I do not like those who feel like they need to constantly tell others they need to be the same religion they are and have no respect for anyone else Faith in real life and I think it just annoys me he comes off that way. The only rhing I find amusing about him anymore is when my Male Hawke romances Isabela and Sebastian tries to get her to admit she does care about the people here and its the reason she is still following Hawke around. Isabela then tells him the reason she is still there is because Hawke is a tiger in bed and can go every night all night long. I still laugh at this convo every time I hear it.

 

Anders was a fav of mine from Awakening and was so flamboyant and all in Awakening that I admit I am a bit prejudice where he is concern from the get go. While I was shocked by his actions with the Chantry and killing of all the people there, I find that when you think of how many innocent Mages that are tortured and killed who aren't even a threat by the Templars and Chantry I have a tough time seeing as how his crime is worse. I don't agree with his actions and all,but I guess I understand him. Mages are tortrued, raped, killed and abused by the Templars with the Chantry turning a blind eye most of the time that I think it had to be something shocking and huge to make people and wake up and say what we allowed to happen to Mages and their loved ones is wrong. They are treated as slaves were once treated in our own history as something to be used when needed and caged like an animal when not. Torture and worse was OK because they weren't considered to be a human, just an animal you owned. I see Mages as being trested the same with the same mindset. And just as our own history shows, it took a War to help those people and force people to treat them as human beings just like anyone else.

 

Anders was wrong for what he did, but to kill him over it? No. The same handful he killed is a small speck to the number of innocent Mages killed because one religious Faith says it is OK to do so. Do some Mages deserve death, yes and as any other race/ religion and so forth as there are always bad ones. But to treat them all the same because some are bad, nope can't do it.

 

One finally note on Sebastian, if he is so deeply moved over needless suffering, why didn't he fall on his knees crying over all the innocent Mages killed by Templars who kill regardless of blood magic or not? If he once was moved to be as emotional and horrified over one Mage who was slaughtered who didn't deserve it, then maybe I would feel different, but he is not. All he cares about are the people he loves were hurt, but screw the people those he cared about hurt, because with him if he doesn't know who you are and you don't agree with his religion then then your life doesn't mean squat to him.

[Inanna Athanasia]

and he also constantly tries to get Fenris to come back to the Chantry and be devoted to it again even after Fenris tells him to stop.

 

*edit* All people view others differently. You see him as one way, yet I see him differently. Just as the debate between the two it comes down to how the character acts, do you like them or not. Not all love all and not all are hated by all Thus is life

 

There is one other thing that also bugs me. Sebastian hires someone to kill a large group of people who killed his family and feels it is OK, BUT if Anders kills a bunch of people who turned their back on his family (he is extremely emotional about being taken from his Mother) and those who have been abused and killed because one women refused to even try to help, then its bad?? As I siad before, if it is for those he loves are hurt, kill them all, if its not someone he loves then who the heck cares if they die.

[Jagokoz]

Sebastian will side with the mages if you kill Anders. I find this end game very interesting as you kill the man responsiible for terrorism, side with the group he is trying to save and bring along someone who is directly affected by the actions of the terrorism. It shows Sebastian is a bigger person than what he is during Act 2 and 3. 

 

Though you can also have Anders side with the Templars so it may just be the devs through it all out and decided your companions will choose you over their own beliefs. Fenris protecting mages kind of sells that too. Oh well in my fan fiction I believe my first thought.

[Inanna Athanasia]

Sebastian will side with the mages if you kill Anders. I find this end game very interesting as you kill the man responsiible for terrorism, side with the group he is trying to save and bring along someone who is directly affected by the actions of the terrorism. It shows Sebastian is a bigger person than what he is during Act 2 and 3. 

 

Though you can also have Anders side with the Templars so it may just be the devs through it all out and decided your companions will choose you over their own beliefs. Fenris protecting mages kind of sells that too. Oh well in my fan fiction I believe my first thought.

 

 

Whoa, you can have Anders side with the Templars at the end and not turn on you??? He always confronts my Hawke and must kill him. How the heck to you get him to side with you at the end on the Templar play through???

[Inanna Athanasia]

I think it's just full friendship? I know I've done it before.. can't remember the details though.

 He turned on my Female Hawke he romanced and she had to kill him ...and Dang was he hard to beat too.

[Inanna Athanasia]

well I guess I know what I will be playing the next couple of weeks,lol

[dantares83]

ANDERS!

 

I cannot wait to kill Sebastian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jagokoz]

well I guess I know what I will be playing the next couple of weeks,lol

 I know I have done this because I was so surprised it had happened. The look on Meredith's face when he is fighting with you is kinda priceless. I thought it was just full rivalry or friendship but if you didn't get it to work that is a little odd. It might have something to do with the dialogue after he blows the cathedral.  

[Sambrion]

Anders did a BIG mistake, but i am not killing him for it (especially that i romanced him), he needs to redeem himself. Choosing between killing someone so that another wouldn't just go, and keeping him alive at the cost of another, isn't that hard, KEEP ANDERS.