207 réponses à ce sujet

[SirGladiator]

The thing about the restrictions/gating is, it only takes fun away from the player, it doesn't actually add any at all, because any restriction you might actually like is already available for you.  If you don't think that character X should be romanced by race/gender/class/whatever Y, you already have the option to play them that way within the game, simply by not romancing them with the given character type you feel they shouldn't be romanced by.  By exercising the option that you already have, you don't have to take anybody else's fun away who 'does' want to romance that character in a way different from the way you like it.  When there aren't restrictions, you can play it your way, everyone else can play it their way, and everybody wins.  When there are restrictions, you 'may' get to play it your way, others 'may' get to play it their way, and only certain people will win.  It's not hard to see which way is better .

[thruaglassdarkly]

First off, thank you timebean, for bringing a positive experience and some general enthusiasm to the board.  Video games and rpgs in particular are a source of great enjoyment for me, and sometimes I get a little disheartened by the torrents of negativity that occasionally spring up here, particularly towards a game that has yet to be released.  Its nice to be reminded that games are, first and foremost, a fun escape from life.  I think I enjoyed my DAII experience a little more than you, but you've been kinder than many.  I think we are both right to be enthusiastic about DA:I

 

You also bring up a point that I believe applies to many aspects of video game design and design in general, and not just romance options.  That is, limitations do not always inhibit the experience.  Sometimes removing some aspect of a work allows another aspect to more fully live.  I have no idea exactly how the romance mechanism will work in DA:I.  Like the rest of you, I will not know until Nov 18 + whatever time it takes me to get that far into the universe.  I might be wrong, but based on past experience with this developer, I doubt I will feel slighted by the experience.  I'm also inclined to believe that in removing some of the romance options, the devs have worked to flesh out those that remained.  Some of you feel that more fully realized character interactions does not justify player choice limitations.  That's fine.  Just remember that Bioware is also trying to design this game to appeal to people like me.

 

Briefly addressing the male hetero issue: the last people on earth who should be inciting flame wars over romance options in video games are straight men.  I have been playing role play video games for a while now, and it was not so very long ago when the only romance option (if such a thing  even existed) was for a straight man to rescue a straight girl from danger.  If the devs were feeling progressive, said female might get to be a kickboxer instead of a healing mage, but that was about the extent of inclusion.  Games have come a long way toward being more inclusive, but most still hold to this pattern, and I have never seen the internet explode over male heterosexuality being forced down a gamer's throat.   I also reject the notion that two is suddenly limiting.  By my count, that's the same number of options that existed for straight characters in both DA:O and DA II.  In short, its exciting that these decisions about LIs exist at all.

[Xilizhra]

I'm sorry for you, I really am. 

 

I can never understand those who will only play PC's that are similar in personality to themselves or have their same sexuality. That just seems so ironically limiting in my eyes. The Dragon Age series is in the role-playing genre and I just assumed that meant creating and playing characters that, well, aren't you. Isn't more interesting to have a play-through that has a PC that's your complete opposite in ideals, preferences and attitude? Also, just like in real-life you're going to have regrettable situations where someone you want to have a relationship with is going to reject because your not the right sex. It happens. For Bioware to include such instances is in my opinion just another way to create immersion.

 

Not everyone is going to love you romantically just because your Hawke, I mean the Inquisitor. 

My immersion level isn't at all raised by being rejected.

 

And to your prior question, no. I can't stand taking actions that don't reflect my own beliefs; it feels wrong.

[Br3admax]

I'm all for gated romances....actually, I couldn't care less. Romances aren't really that big a deal. 

[Who Knows]

Meh. I'd rather romances be gated by story decisions. You want Solas...better not side with the templars. You want Sera...better not be racist against elves.

You can get different reactions from the love interests in every playthrough WITHOUT it being tied to gender.

[sylvanaerie]

Good read, OP and most of the posters on this thread.  

I don't mind gated romances much. Being a heterosexual female myself I prefer the 'traditional' boy/girl dynamic.  I didn't do much tinkering with that dynamic in Origins.  All my girls romanced Alistair (sorry, I loved Zev but he was forever 'friendzoned' after a misstep in his romance killed it for me), all my boys romanced either Morrigan then Leliana (I don't do tortured angst well) or just Leliana.

 

With the advent of bisexual romance options in DA2, I finally experienced my first encounter with a f/f (Isabela--which I consider my 'canon' Hawke) and a m/m (Fenris).  Both romances felt well integrated regardless of gender of Hawke--if anything, Fenris felt more impactful with my snarky male rogue than the other times I romanced him with ladies.  While all were open to any Hawke (which I felt was a good thing), a lot of people complained 'it wasn't realistic' for ALL 4 to be bisexual.  Meh, whatever.  I still liked them.  Isabela's was my favorite because of the personal growth seen there.  

 

I'm looking forward to trying multiple plays through Inquisition with different inquisitors of all types of personality, class, race.  I will make whatever I need to for romancing whomever I find interesting, and looking very much forward to it.

 

While I sympathize with those who feel limited by choices here, I hope you can find something fun to enjoy with whatever characters you prefer and try not to feel left out if you just can't bring yourself to do so.  I never romanced Anders because his character was unappealing to me, but I don't feel left out because others claim his is their favorite.

[Br3admax]

Meh. I'd rather romances be gated by story decisions. You want Solas...better not side with the templars. You want Sera...better not be racist against elves.

You can get different reactions from the love interests in every playthrough WITHOUT it being tied to gender.

It is gated this way...Aside from gender that is. Why would you want a character to think differently one way, but then force your preferences on them the next?

[Xilizhra]

While I sympathize with those who feel limited by choices here, I hope you can find something fun to enjoy with whatever characters you prefer and try not to feel left out if you just can't bring yourself to do so.  I never romanced Anders because his character was unappealing to me, but I don't feel left out because others claim his is their favorite.

We are left out of many things, that's just a fact. All we can do is hope to mitigate it.

[Roamingmachine]

I'm sorry for you, I really am. 

 

I can never understand those who will only play PC's that are similar in personality to themselves or have their same sexuality. That just seems so ironically limiting in my eyes. The Dragon Age series is in the role-playing genre and I just assumed that meant creating and playing characters that, well, aren't you. Isn't more interesting to have a play-through that has a PC that's your complete opposite in ideals, preferences and attitude? Also, just like in real-life you're going to have regrettable situations where someone you want to have a relationship with is going to reject because your not the right sex. It happens. For Bioware to include such instances is in my opinion just another way to create immersion.

 

Not everyone is going to love you romantically just because your Hawke, I mean the Inquisitor. 

Some people, like me, simply have lines they cannot cross and things they cannot do. Every character is an aspect of my personality, diffrent from the everyday me but still very much me. Yes, even the psychotic, devil-may-care Bane types that pop up during my "let the world burn" games are a part of me that i fully acknowledge. To actually have the capability act in contrary to who i am is a skill i, like many others, do not have.  *shurgs*

 

As for limiting the options in-game... A two edged sword. By making these limitations the writers were freed to flesh out the characters and their stories in more detail leading to a richer experience for the player. On the other hand, where do you draw the line where you let the player mould the story? DA2 "playersexual" let the players make romance stories as they wanted them to play out. This limited the personalities of the npcs but allowed for more variety in story choices.  Not an easy choice for designers to make. I'm a sandbox rpg fan so i allways vote for more choice.

[Moondoggie]

For me personally it adds to the experience to have some rules and limitations to the world. It gives characters more depth and personality when they aren't ever willing Pokemon waiting for you to take them out and play with them in whatever way you want. In principle all characters being available for everyone and being able to shape them how you want is a nice idea but i think i'd rather have characters they feel more real and not like a template that depends on me to fill in the blanks. Having people with their own ideals,preferences and thoughts is more exciting than just being able to romance and force my opinions on who i please.

In real life we can't always get what we want and we have to make sacrifices. Of course i hear you saying "But Moondoggie it's a game and i should be able to play out my fantasies!" sure true. However to really tell a story you need to believe in the world and it's characters that surround you. If they behave in a cardboard cut out way that requires you to tell them what you want then it's less of a story that flows and more of a paint by numbers. I would choose a situation where i care for a character but they don't feel romantic about me so we remain close in a non romance kind of way than have them always be who i want them to be with every playthrough. Yes in DA2 i can have Merrill with whoever i want but she would have been a better character if she had more of her own personality.

[timebean]

That's a very touching story, OP, and one I've heard many times from Alistair-mancers. Unfortunately, it sort of proves why some people are so unhappy with gated love interests. I never got to experience Alistair's romance because it is gender-gated. I tried, really tried, to play a female character and began his romance, but I lost interest almost as soon as I started. If I'd been able to romance him with a male character, I would've been able to have the same amazing experience so many Alistair romance fans have had. Sure, you could say its my own restriction that I place upon myself, but I truly can't help it if playing a certain way is an absolute chore and sucks all the fun out of the game for me. Meanwhile, I get to sit and listen to folks wax poetic about what always sounds to me (as an Alistair-mance outsider) like the greatest romance ever to have existed in a video game ever. 

 

My first RPG was DA2, not DAO. I romanced Fenris with a male Hawke and utterly fell in love with their story, sort of like you and Alistair. Then I romanced him again... and again and again and again! I tried the other three and enjoyed their stories, but it really is all about Hawke and Fenris for me.

 

If Fenris had been gender-gated and only available to females, just like Alistair, I'd have never experienced something that's had such a tremendous impact on me as a gamer. That little Fenris romance inspired me to buy my own gaming console, and now I'm the owner of multiple xbox games... and just recently bought my first gaming PC. 

 

So the story reads differently from player to player. A lot of people do sound like jerks when they complain, for example, about the female love interests not being "pretty enough." I agree; I'll be happy to see the back of those folks. But gated love interests, which open doors for you, close doors for other players. 

 

I'm sure you can see that now ^^

This is an intersting perspective and one I never thought about.  As per other comments on this thread, I think you are making an important point that I missed.  To be fair, it was midnight when I made the post, so perhaps I didn't think it through.  But I guess it is true that folks just play differenlty and for different reasons.  It doesn't occur to me to play as...myself. I like to pretend to be other people.  I grew up reading fantasy and as a woman, I had similar limitations.  The hero was always a man (or in most cases).  I just became used to sorta imagining myself as the male warrior in a lot of cases.  So, it just comes natural to me.  But perhaps it is easy for me becuase I was FORCED into that kind of thinking at a young age.  To enjoy fantasy literature as a woman, I HAD to identify with the male chrcater in order to be more than the bussomy (spelling?) female characters.  So now, I don't really know if this is a good or bad thing.  Hmmm...something to ponder.

[Bioblitzer]

I completely understand restrictions...doesn't mean I have to like them but I will never be mad or send hate mail (very immature) for these kind of things

[AlexiaRevan]

I disagree . I would love the charachter or hate them....but their orientation has nothing to do with them . So yeah the race gating isn't something I like . And I don't think they need such a thing for them to be 'special' . They are all special . I don't need a flag telling me this one is special because she is X or Y . 

 

As for Role Playing , I have role played since the damn Atari......... . For countless games , and as graphic become better I just can't do it anymore . 

[YourFunnyUncle]

I think what this thread has established is that Dragon Age games, and RPGs in general, mean different things to different people. This of course means that whatever a developer chooses to do, there are going to be those to whom it doesn't appeal...

 

Personally I fall somewhere in between the "I can only do things that reflect my own gender and sexuality" and "I want to try everything!" camps. I'm a straight man so obviously I fancy women. I don't mind creating a playing a woman character, and I don't mind having a lesbian romance with that character, but I'm not particularly interested in having a gay romance with a male character. Equally with the personality of my character I can stray a little from my own usual reaction which is to be diplomatic (I enjoyed playing as a paragade Shepard in Mass Effect for example) but I find no fun in playing as a complete ass.  I should say though that I am 100% behind the inclusion of such options (both in terms of sexuality and playing "evil") in the game for those that want them.

 

For me, although I can understand the calls for "more choice for all", I can also see how the idea that the romances might be deeper with the sexuality of the characters pre-determined has merit. I suppose we'll have to see how well they've actually been implemented in the game. Any conversations we have about them before having played are necessarily based on very scant data, so are hypothetical at best.

[Astelspirals]

I can appreciate your perspective. and there's tons of people who are happy with the race/gender gating. I'm not one of them. the one thing that stood out from your post was that it gives you a chance to play from a different perspective, but for me, if i want to romance one of the straight characters (like Cassandra or Blackwall), it will make me play from a perspective i've been trying to escape from. i tried it. i romanced Morrigan and Alistair for the achievements, and the absolute hardest play thru for me was Alistair's. playing a straight woman was incredibly uncomfortable and it took me forever to finish that particular game. so while i can appreciate that it gives others the chance to do something different, i hope that you can see that it makes others feel like they're being forced into a box they already know they don't fit. 

[Wulfreiks]

This is an intersting perspective and one I never thought about.  As per other comments on this thread, I think you are making an important point that I missed.  To be fair, it was midnight when I made the post, so perhaps I didn't think it through.  But I guess it is true that folks just play differenlty and for different reasons.  It doesn't occur to me to play as...myself. I like to pretend to be other people.  I grew up reading fantasy and as a woman, I had similar limitations.  The hero was always a man (or in most cases).  I just became used to sorta imagining myself as the male warrior in a lot of cases.  So, it just comes natural to me.  But perhaps it is easy for me becuase I was FORCED into that kind of thinking at a young age.  To enjoy fantasy literature as a woman, I HAD to identify with the male chrcater in order to be more than the bussomy (spelling?) female characters.  So now, I don't really know if this is a good or bad thing.  Hmmm...something to ponder.

I think this is just wrong. As a heterosexual male that believes in gender equality I enjoy seeing female characters take the role of the hero. They are generally more dynamic than male characters and, even in fantasy settings, tend to have more obstacles to over come due to their gender. Using DA:O as an example, there were a lot of NPCs who were surprised by your Warden being a female, moreso than them being non-human. Some NPCs were shocked and intimidated by this while others simply mocked your character. There was less of this in DA2 but it was still there.

Though I do have to say that although I put a little of myself into each character (as some have stated before) I do not believe in fully copying myself on to a game. There is really no creativity involved in that. It also asks several self-reflecting questions regarding the need to do that but I will not post them as they might upset more than just a few people.

[Eri]

I think this is just wrong. As a heterosexual male that believes in gender equality I enjoy seeing female characters take the role of the hero. They are generally more dynamic than male characters and, even in fantasy settings, tend to have more obstacles to over come due to their gender. Using DA:O as an example, there were a lot of NPCs who were surprised by your Warden being a female, moreso than them being non-human. Some NPCs were shocked and intimidated by this while others simply mocked your character. There was less of this in DA2 but it was still there.

Though I do have to say that although I put a little of myself into each character (as some have stated before) I do not believe in fully copying myself on to a game. There is really no creativity involved in that. It also asks several self-reflecting questions regarding the need to do that but I will not post them as they might upset more than just a few people.

I think timebean was pointing out the fact that at times in past literature the substance of a hero usually came in the form of a male, where that was so established by default that the writing could focus on more worthwhile aspects of the character and story then some gender schtick; in comparison, more then once the heroins were portrayed as oversexed and patronizingly treated as 'a wonder' that they could actually pull it off (and quite often were saved or assisted by a man anyway) - defined by their "weaker" gender. As a female, I experienced much the same as timebean in this regard, and so had plenty of practice imagining myself as the male heroes to get enjoyment out of what would otherwise often be excellent writing.

 

Also, I dunno about other females but sometimes I just get sick of a female warrior -- the gender -- being a big deal by default (even if it's unusual in that world; it's more the fact that it's made to be unusual in the first place). It can be irritating when gender dictates an individual or the bias shown towards them before they have a chance to show how much more they have to give as a person. This is a big reason why I didn't mind imagining myself into a male role, despite how refreshing it would have been to have had a female in that role instead. I'm not saying that females shouldn't be handled differently then males (and vise versa), just that that difference shouldn't be painted in such a stereotypical/negative way.

 

Anyway, everyone has different experiences and opinions in this regard, and so many factors influence how a person chooses to view the topic that there is no truly 'wrong' or 'right' answer - just varying perspectives (and that makes it interesting!).

 

I hope all of that made sense - being this tired makes it hard to focus on making sense.. lol.

[Melca36]

Why the romance limitations in DAI are a GOOD thing.

 

I know there have been numerous posts about romance options in DA (all games), ranging from overjoyed to angry, but I have yet to see anyone post about the positive aspect of limiting the romance options.  This is a rather long post, but hopefully worth it.

DAO was the first RPG game I ever really played.  A friend loaned it to me when I randomly bought a PS3 to have something fun to do with my younger brother when he visited.  After it sat on my TV stand for weeks, I finally put it in one day to check it out…and then sat in front of my TV for weeks playing it. I had no idea what to expect when I started…so I chose female human rogue and went at it.

 

Having had no prior experience with gaming, I remember very clearly thinking…”Is this Alistair fella…flirting with me?”  I had no idea that romances were even an option when I started, so it was so fun and engrossing to watch the shy little templar get cozy with my rebellious Coulsand lass. And it was awesome for me, because I always assumed video games were all hack and slash.  I had no idea that you could have a lover, and friends, and rivals, and all that jazz.  That is what roleplaying should be! I was so into the whole story…Wynne was like my own mom, Leliana my nutty little sister, and Sten someone I was desperate to get to know and earn his respect.  But my romance with Alistair made it all worthwhile.  My poor Warden, grieving for her brother and hell bent on revenge, meeting a sweet guy who makes her laugh.  Classic love story in the midst of darkspawn and dragons.  Whoopee!

 

When I reached the end, I made him the King. When he broke my warden’s heart, I was…well…heartbroken!  Then Morrigan comes in and I think we’ll all get to live after all. And so I stroll across the hall to man who broke my warden’s heart, prepared to use my high coercion score to convince him. I almost did.  Then, he looks up at me and says “Is this really what you want me to do….are you sure?”  Damn it!  Why did they write him so well???

 

I couldn’t do it. Why?  Because my warden loved that guy. Because I was IMMERSED!  I sacrificed my warden because the relationship I built up with Alistair made the idea of him doing a dark ritual abhorrent to me.   That is the power of the romances in these games.  I basically killed my character after over 100 hrs of gameplay because I didn’t want my love interest to think ill of me!  THAT is why the romances are awesome!  They just…suck you in!

 

So, with the game over, I decided to play through again as a female Dalish elf.  And that’s when the awesomeness died.  I know it sounds silly, but when Alistair started loving up on the elf, I was annoyed.  And then I realized that Zevran and Leliana were once again becoming interested.  It completely spoiled the previous play through. It lost the depth of the gaming experience.  I didn’t want Alistair to fall in love with my elven girl…he belonged to Elissa Coulsand (in my eyes).  If I had played initially as a female elf, I am sure I would have felt the same bitterness towards him on my second play though as the human noble.  It ruined the illusion, I guess.  I eventually played as every sex and race combination available. But, my crew had no opinions, no discernment.  Leliana and Zevran always hit on me, as would Alistair and Morrigan for their respective sexes. They were there to love the warden, regardless of anything about their history or beliefs or background.  It took the roleplaying part out of it…no matter who I was, the same people would still want to be with me.  It seemed to cheapen the whole romance experience as well as the individuality of my many wardens.  From a roleplaying perspective, it made the origins aspect completely irrelevant.  The same cheesy lines, the same responses = romance.  Blah. 

 

And DA2 was the worst for this.  Anders, Fenris, Isabella…they could give a crap who you were. Fenris loving a mage?  Cmon, really?   So, I played through that game a couple of times and said…meh…who cares…it is the same game every time.  

 

This little rant leads me to the things I have been hearing about the lack of options, or rather, the restrictions of DAI’s romances.  Folks complaining there are not enough bisexual or homosexual or male choices (or any other complaint they can think of). But in my mind, these restrictions will DEEPEN the roleplaying experience tremendously.  For whatever sex and race you choose, there will be a DIFFERENT experience (from the romance perspective).  I plan all playing, once again, all races and all sexes (because I dearly love the DA world and want to play again and again).  But what I am most looking forward to is the very thing that most folks seem to be upset about…the limitations of the romance options.

 

Why is this a bad thing? It makes perfect sense to me.  The preferences of the party are what I think will make this game even more of an amazing experience.  Each warden I make will be truly different, with a different kind of romance for me to explore and enjoy as a player. It makes it WORTH the effort of playing through again and again and again!  No more Alistair drooling over dwarves and mages and humans and elves with the same dialogue choices.  No more feeling like Leliana and Zevran will do whatever with whomever (and please note I am not saying anything against bisexuality. I am talking about the fact that those characters are ALWAYS love interests, which makes it seem completely…UNSPECIAL to whatever origins character I chose to be).

 

Instead, in DAI, each playthrough gives me only a couple of options to choose from, making it seem more…well…real.  For example, here is my prepared lists of playthroughs with my idea for who I will chat up (though they may be modified depending on the other character’s personalities).

 

Female human mage – Cullen, get ready! I have been waiting for you since Origins.

Female elven mage – Solas, let’s go play in the fade!

Female qunari warrior – Blackwell, I am going to curl your beard!

Female dwarven warrior – Sera, talk dirty to me!

Male dwarven rogue – Scribbles, indeed!

Male human warrior – Cassandra, let’s bump shields!

Male eleven rogue – Ahh Dorian…with a mustache like that, who can resist!

Male qunari rogue – So why do they call you Iron Bull?

 

I guess overall, what I am trying to say, is that Bioware has not limited our options…they have expanded our options in a totally cool way.  If there is a character you really want to romance, then you may have to play another sex or race to do it.  Why not?  Isn’t that the point of RPG’s?  To be someone besides yourself?  To see the world from a different perspective.  To…well…play?? 

 

And in terms of romance in video games, think about how far ahead Bioware is.  They have me, a straight woman, EXCITED to play a gay man (because I can’t wait to cuddle up to the maverick mage Dorian).  One of the most important points of all fantasy (and science fiction) literature (and by extension RPGS), is to expand our horizons and make us more aware of differences in others.  To expand what we think of as “like me”. RPGs are where you get to actually be another kind of person! And to be in an age where I can enjoy expanding my own narrow view of human sexuality, in a way that is fun and entertaining for other reasons, is a really amazing thing. 

 

So..thanks Bioware.  Thanks for making your characters have more depth in this new game.  Thanks for giving them personality and different tastes and different sexualities. Thanks for giving me another reason to try to play a game as a different sex or different orientation and making it actually meaningful. Thanks for continuing to create this part to your games, despite the controversy.

 

Oh, and thanks to all of you for reading this terribly long post. I would love to hear your thoughts on this!

 

I agree 100% but be prepared to be flamed by those who want their needs catered to by the developers

[Battlebloodmage]

I agree 100% but be prepared to be flamed by those who want their needs catered to by the developers

Do you need to quote the entire thing?

[ComedicSociopathy]

Do you need to quote the entire thing?

 

How else is this thread going to reach 100 pages?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes in DA2 i can have Merrill with whoever i want but she would have been a better character if she had more of her own personality.

I disagree. She had her own personality since she never brings up anything regarding orientation other than her loving Hawke. And even then, her romance was different depending on what gender Hawke was. 

[Grieving Natashina]

How else is this thread going to reach 100 pages?

I see no flaming here.  How about we not jinx the thread, okay?

[SnakeCode]

Some people, like me, simply have lines they cannot cross and things they cannot do. Every character is an aspect of my personality, diffrent from the everyday me but still very much me. Yes, even the psychotic, devil-may-care Bane types that pop up during my "let the world burn" games are a part of me that i fully acknowledge. To actually have the capability act in contrary to who i am is a skill i, like many others, do not have.  *shurgs*

 

As for limiting the options in-game... A two edged sword. By making these limitations the writers were freed to flesh out the characters and their stories in more detail leading to a richer experience for the player. On the other hand, where do you draw the line where you let the player mould the story? DA2 "playersexual" let the players make romance stories as they wanted them to play out. This limited the personalities of the npcs but allowed for more variety in story choices.  Not an easy choice for designers to make. I'm a sandbox rpg fan so i allways vote for more choice.

I totally understand people who make characters who's morality aligns with their own, I think most players do that , to some extent. At least on their canon playthrough.

 

What I don't understand is people who literally make every character an avatar of themselves. Right down to their appearance, race, sexuality etc. I can see the appeal of doing it for one playthrough, or even a few. Not every single time though, when a game gives me options I am compelled to explore them. I'd get seriously bored rolling the same character time and time again. 

 

I was hoping the gender/race gating would encourage players to experiment playing different types of characters, but it seems people are too stuck in their ways to even entertain the idea.

 

I disagree with people saying that the race/gender gating is forcing limitations upon the gamers. All of the options ARE available to every single player. It is us players limiting ourselves by choosing to only play as a specific type of character.

[Wulfreiks]

I think timebean was pointing out the fact that at times in past literature the substance of a hero usually came in the form of a male, where that was so established by default that the writing could focus on more worthwhile aspects of the character and story then some gender schtick; in comparison, more then once the heroins were portrayed as oversexed and patronizingly treated as 'a wonder' that they could actually pull it off (and quite often were saved or assisted by a man anyway) - defined by their "weaker" gender. As a female, I experienced much the same as timebean in this regard, and so had plenty of practice imagining myself as the male heroes to get enjoyment out of what would otherwise often be excellent writing.
 
Also, I dunno about other females but sometimes I just get sick of a female warrior -- the gender -- being a big deal by default (even if it's unusual in that world; it's more the fact that it's made to be unusual in the first place). It can be irritating when gender dictates an individual or the bias shown towards them before they have a chance to show how much more they have to give as a person. This is a big reason why I didn't mind imagining myself into a male role, despite how refreshing it would have been to have had a female in that role instead. I'm not saying that females shouldn't be handled differently then males (and vise versa), just that that difference shouldn't be painted in such a stereotypical/negative way.
 
Anyway, everyone has different experiences and opinions in this regard, and so many factors influence how a person chooses to view the topic that there is no truly 'wrong' or 'right' answer - just varying perspectives (and that makes it interesting!).
 
I hope all of that made sense - being this tired makes it hard to focus on making sense.. lol.

I understood what she was saying but fair point. Heroines tend to still be objectified, patronized and still require the assistance of a male. Thoun I can say that I also get annoyed by the female warrior situation as well. The quality of a person, real or otherwise, should be reflected in what they do and not in what or who they are. But judging someone in that regard just makes too much sense, right?

I could break out into personal anecdotes using my personal experience and views on this subject but that would be another thouht for another thread on another forum. I will say that it is true that personal perspectives do make such things interesting. And yes, that all made sense!

[Chernaya]

DAI is the first game where I'm warming up to leave my comfort zone. I'm thinking about a romance with Dorian, and for that I need a male character. Before this, I could never stay immersed in playing a different gender character. After spending some time on the forums, I've realized I'm not alone with this. Everyone is different. I have decided though, that I want to see everything, or at least as much as I can - so I'm going to give it a go. But I can still understand those who are still not really convinced that will work for them, I've been there. So that's why I think it's okay for people to talk about how they are disappointed, and their reasons are completely legitimate (besides the people complaining solely about looks, of course). Most of my DAO and DA2 playthroughs are nearly the same thing. I usually have a very strict comfort zone on how to play these games, and leaving it feels wrong to me. I think it's great that others can play through different times making such different choices and I've been inspired by that, it's definitely made me curious. And very nice post, OP. Really made me think.