Aller au contenu

Photo

Non-magic abilities, too flashy?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
190 réponses à ce sujet

#176
Xilizhra

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages

Anyone who claims that da2 combat is "better" needs to have his head checked. Repetitive waves and waves of enemies, mobs spawning everywhere, teleporting behind the party from already cleared places and thus eliminating all tactical aspects of combat, weird combination of trash mobs and "elite" hit point sink enemies, da2 combat was poorly planned and poorly implemented. It was poor in general.

"Better" may be one thing, but for me, it was certainly "more fun." The waves were problematic, but it at least looked and felt more interesting and responsive (and I don't know why you have a problem with mixtures of normal and elite enemies).

 

However, I do think DAI has taken it too far and made everything far too explosively colorful (while also slowing the animations down, something that I dislike because I loved DA2's speed).



#177
Hellion Rex

Hellion Rex
  • Members
  • 30 037 messages

However, I do think DAI has taken it too far and made everything far too explosively colorful

No, maximum pretty!

*slams fist on the table*


  • Lebanese Dude aime ceci

#178
straightdave2000

straightdave2000
  • Members
  • 15 messages
I love the flashy colors and over the topness. Da:O was dreadfully boring in its combat. Good to see more active elements in combat and more eye candy :)

#179
aeoncs

aeoncs
  • Members
  • 334 messages

Anyone who claims that da2 combat is "better" needs to have his head checked. Repetitive waves and waves of enemies, mobs spawning everywhere, teleporting behind the party from already cleared places and thus eliminating all tactical aspects of combat, weird combination of trash mobs and "elite" hit point sink enemies, da2 combat was poorly planned and poorly implemented. It was poor in general.

 

The only complaint in your little mass-insulting rant is that enemies spawned in waves, which definitely sucked and was a horrible design choice. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

That doesn't change the fact that for many players, the combat was ten times as fluid, less choppy and stoic, more responsive and intuitive. See? You can actually be reasonable and outline your opinion instead of offending countless people and throwing a hissy fit like a 5-year-old.


  • ForTheWynne aime ceci

#180
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

Anyone who claims that da2 combat is "better" needs to have his head checked. Repetitive waves and waves of enemies, mobs spawning everywhere, teleporting behind the party from already cleared places and thus eliminating all tactical aspects of combat, weird combination of trash mobs and "elite" hit point sink enemies, da2 combat was poorly planned and poorly implemented. It was poor in general.

 

You're wrong, and your tactical shortcomings do not somehow render DA2 worse than DA:O, which was a game completely devoid of tactics (unless you intentionally nerfed yourself, in which case it involved two or three very simple and basic tactics that cannot work against real humans). DA2 had a lot of perplexing design decisions, and it was poorly balanced, but even so it had better underlying mechanics than DA:O. 


  • PhroXenGold aime ceci

#181
seraphymon

seraphymon
  • Members
  • 867 messages

You're wrong, and your tactical shortcomings do not somehow render DA2 worse than DA:O, which was a game completely devoid of tactics (unless you intentionally nerfed yourself, in which case it involved two or three very simple and basic tactics that cannot work against real humans). DA2 had a lot of perplexing design decisions, and it was poorly balanced, but even so it had better underlying mechanics than DA:O. 

Hahahaha OMG that post  is perhaps the most flawed thing I have read from you.. Shame really as I  did find most of your points interesting even  if I didn't always agree. Not that I feel Star Fury was any better necessarily as I do give some credit to some areas in DA2, but this just sounds like a total bashing and pumping of ones chest.  Star Fury was right. there is no point in responding.



#182
In Exile

In Exile
  • Members
  • 28 738 messages

Hahahaha OMG that post  is perhaps the most flawed thing I have read from you.. Shame really as I  did find most of your points interesting even  if I didn't always agree. Not that I feel Star Fury was any better necessarily as I do give some credit to some areas in DA2, but this just sounds like a total bashing and pumping of ones chest.  Star Fury was right. there is no point in responding.

 

No, he wasn't. And if you don't want to have a real discussion about it, it's your loss. Both DA:O and DA2 were trash when it came to "tactical" combat. DA2 had worse implementation of a better mechanic, which is a bit like saying it was the least smelliest piece of crap. 


  • PhroXenGold aime ceci

#183
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 806 messages

Anyone who claims that da2 combat is "better" needs to have his head checked. Repetitive waves and waves of enemies, mobs spawning everywhere, teleporting behind the party from already cleared places and thus eliminating all tactical aspects of combat, weird combination of trash mobs and "elite" hit point sink enemies, da2 combat was poorly planned and poorly implemented. It was poor in general.

 

I found it more enjoyable in general, and I'm sure I'd get a clean bill of health from any shrink. Going back, DA:O feels even more sluggish than when I first played it. I'd never say that DA2's combat was anywhere near perfect, but overall, I did have a lot more fun.

 

And really, I loathe mage combat in DA:O. Those staffs might as well be firing ambien.



#184
Guest_Israfel_*

Guest_Israfel_*
  • Guests

No, he wasn't. And if you don't want to have a real discussion about it, it's your loss. Both DA:O and DA2 were trash when it came to "tactical" combat. DA2 had worse implementation of a better mechanic, which is a bit like saying it was the least smelliest piece of crap. 

 

Did you play Origins on a console?  I agree that there was only a little more tactical combat in the console version of DA:O, but on the PC it was great.  Pause, direct each member of your team to perform an action, unpause, rinse, repeat.  I just replayed Origins on the 360, and the only reason I did that is because I wanted to import to DA:II (which does play better on a console, in my opinion).

 

Edit:  Unless you're saying "It's not really tactical unless it's turn-based," in which case, I might concede that you have a point.



#185
PhroXenGold

PhroXenGold
  • Members
  • 1 854 messages

Did you play Origins on a console?  I agree that there was only a little more tactical combat in the console version of DA:O, but on the PC it was great.  Pause, direct each member of your team to perform an action, unpause, rinse, repeat.  I just replayed Origins on the 360, and the only reason I did that is because I wanted to import to DA:II (which does play better on a console, in my opinion).

 

Edit:  Unless you're saying "It's not really tactical unless it's turn-based," in which case, I might concede that you have a point.

 

Thing about "Pause, direct each member of your team to perform an action, unpause, rinse, repeat" is that:

 

i) You could do all those things in DA2

ii) There was really no need to do them in either game

 

By "not really tactical", I assume that In Exile mean that there were no major tactical descision to make. There was no need to apply significant tactical knowledge. Which, frankly, applies to both DA games so far, although thanks to things like waves of enemies and the limited healing, DA2 was a little better that it's predecessor.



#186
Guest_Israfel_*

Guest_Israfel_*
  • Guests

There was really no need to do them in either game

 

I had to do it quite a bit for boss battles on the higher difficulty settings in both games.  It seems like DA:I is going to be better than either of them, though, in terms of tactical combat, so I'm happy.

 

And I agree that you can do it in both games, but my only point was that it felt right on PC..  I'm not a huge fan of the radial menu.  It's obviously not a dealbreaker for me, though, since I had fun playing both games on an XBox.



#187
Star fury

Star fury
  • Members
  • 6 394 messages

The only complaint in your little mass-insulting rant is that enemies spawned in waves, which definitely sucked and was a horrible design choice. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

That doesn't change the fact that for many players, the combat was ten times as fluid, less choppy and stoic, more responsive and intuitive. See? You can actually be reasonable and outline your opinion instead of offending countless people and throwing a hissy fit like a 5-year-old.

 

Your trying to hide behind "mass" is funny, it really is. Your butthurt because of my words is your problem. Also your twisting of my words about DA2 combat is not funny, but it says a lot about you.

No, throwing words like 'many players". "ten times", "fact", "countless people"(when it is only one person)  and twisting my words don't make your opinion reasonable one bit.



#188
Star fury

Star fury
  • Members
  • 6 394 messages

You're wrong, and your tactical shortcomings do not somehow render DA2 worse than DA:O, which was a game completely devoid of tactics (unless you intentionally nerfed yourself, in which case it involved two or three very simple and basic tactics that cannot work against real humans). DA2 had a lot of perplexing design decisions, and it was poorly balanced, but even so it had better underlying mechanics than DA:O. 

Ah yes, "elite" player and tactical "guru" writes some entitled and condenscending crap.



#189
Devtek

Devtek
  • Members
  • 529 messages

I'm reaching a point where I will headcanon that everyone in Thedas has magic abilities and the ones that are actual mages are the poor sods that got discovered and sent to the Circles.

 

Compare Vivienne's "teleport" ( sorry, forgot the name ) with a rogue's backstab, or the stealth ability, rogues are apostates!!!

 

That is pure canon anyways, everyone in Tedas does have magic (mana) especially since blood itself is a source of magic (everyone has blood).  The only thing that defines a mage is their ability to manipulate it to cast spells and the amount of mana available to them. Furthermore, Reavers (warriors) use blood magic to enhance themselves. Templars use lyrium (pure mana in a physical form) to give themselves magical abilities. etc etc.



#190
aeoncs

aeoncs
  • Members
  • 334 messages

Your trying to hide behind "mass" is funny, it really is. Your butthurt because of my words is your problem. Also your twisting of my words about DA2 combat is not funny, but it says a lot about you.

No, throwing words like 'many players". "ten times", "fact", "countless people"(when it is only one person)  and twisting my words don't make your opinion reasonable one bit.

 

Are you really THAT dense? Read your post again and you will see that all you did was complain about the randomly spawning waves of enemies. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not twisting anything.

And yes, many (!) players preferred DA2s combat. You just have to look at this thread to see the truth of it. I'm going to refrain from stating that it's the majority from now on - even though I believe that to be true, I obviously have no way of proving it.

 

What else? Right, I'm hiding "behind mass"?... What? I don't even know what you're trying to say but I'm going to humor you anyway.

Is it, in any way, possible that you don't know what "anyone" means? At least that's the only reason I can think of that would explain why you can't seem to understand, that you did indeed insult countless people by saying that "Anyone who claims that da2 combat is "better" needs to have his head checked".

I'm beginning to think that you're constantly on drugs or extremely plastered every single time you decide to sit down in front of your PC to write a comment, as I have yet to see one that's even remotely comprehensible.



#191
Wulfsten

Wulfsten
  • Members
  • 103 messages

Anyone who claims that da2 combat is "better" needs to have his head checked. Repetitive waves and waves of enemies, mobs spawning everywhere, teleporting behind the party from already cleared places and thus eliminating all tactical aspects of combat, weird combination of trash mobs and "elite" hit point sink enemies, da2 combat was poorly planned and poorly implemented. It was poor in general.

 

I also thought the combat in DA2 was much better than DA:O from a gameplay perspective. Yes, the corpses vanishing and the enemies appearing out of nowhere felt cheap and shoddy from an aesthetic point of view, but the actual combat system was much better.

 

DA:O, besides being plodding and slow, had no kinetic feedback when you hit as opposed to when you missed. The idea that you could “miss” was imported from D&D and it was a bad idea. Seeing your character swing through an enemy as if he’s made of thin air is never enjoyable.

 

The abilities for most characters were fairly uninteresting, and there were too few of them. Far too much of the combat consisted of gearing up the right auras, then watching your character swinging mechanically and often ineffectually.

 

DA2 introduced a huge amount of complexity. Characters regularly had the opportunity to use 6 or 7 different talents during a combat, and crowd control, AoE, mobility, and statuses became a much bigger part of combat for all classes, instead of being relegated to just the mage. Cross class combos introduced an excellent incentive to carefully craft tactics, and personally I found it fun as hell to create a team that automatically accomplished several class combos in a fight without me having to input anything.

 

The long cooldowns on healing and potion use were also an improvement, because poultice-chugging became less of a gameplay feature compared to DA:O.

 

The specific specialisations for each NPC also had a much bigger effect, making them actually unique. In DA:O, Alistair plays almost exactly like any other warrior you might create. In DA2, Varric’s crossbow abilities make him considerably different to other rogues. As did Merrill’s blood magic.

 

 

To speak to your specific criticisms of DA2 combat:

 

- The waves were not that repetitive. Overall the experience of combat in DA2 is quicker than in DA:O. 

 

- The fact that mobs spawn everywhere, including behind you, was rarely an issue. You say it eliminates any "tactical" element of the game, but that simply isn't true. Bottlenecking and creating defensive lines was never a huge part of DA:O's combat tactics. In any case, the tactical element of DA2 is not in making sure your enemies are all arranged in a specific place. It's about using the right abilities on the right enemies, prioritising threats, managing your resources, and occasionally space control. 

 

- Personally I found the elite enemies' huge hit point totals quite fun. I enjoyed mopping up a mob quickly then going all out on a single enemy. I think the devs correctly intuited that just as it's massively satisfying to kill 8 trash mob enemies in one AoE hit, it's also really satisfying to dump 8 nerfs on a single incredibly tough enemy and whale on him with your most powerful single hit moves. 

 

I think you’re confusing the fact that DA2 was incredibly shoddy from a visual point of view with the actual combat mechanics, which were excellent, especially after auto-attack was included in console versions. 


  • LaughingWolf aime ceci