574 réponses à ce sujet

[ArvinDulku]

I have embraced with enthusiasm every gameplay decision they have made thus far, especially the healing ones and even the limited active skills, cause I have 2 level 80 pc's on Guild War 2 where limited skills never felt like an issue towards having fun.

But this? I mean I can keep my finger on the mouse, but...really?

This has me baffled.

Hopefully we can at some point have a dev clear this up with a level of certainty. Or is this confirmed?

[Adhin]

Holding a button (trigger or key/mouse) to attack doesn't bother me, but i would still prefer auto-attack. I hope they include the option, if not at release shortly after. That all said having played D3 on console recently holding a button to attack hasn't killed my enjoyment of it. And in D2 I was holding the left mouse button to attack too. As far as multiplayer... same thing, wasn't an issue for me in D3, or Mass Effect for that matter. Keep in mind the bulk of what you 'do' in ME3 is hold a trigger down when shooting at crap, and stop to throw out a power... but you go right back to holding a button down.

 

Either way, like I said - an option to toggle on auto-attack would be a very welcome change. As an aside, I find holding the XB1 triggers to be far more comfortable then 360 controller for what it matters to anyone. They have a lot less resistance, I've actually accidentally triggered attacks by just resting my finger on em before (haven't had that happen for months... got used to the light pull heh).

[xkg]

And in D2 I was holding the left mouse button to attack too.

 

Out of habit ?

 

edit: nvm, I thought you were talking about DA2.

[Adhin]

LOL yeah no sorry, Diablo 2. Was first that let you just... hold a button. Diablo 1 you where stuck clicking like a madman. 'Hated' having to Tap A in DA2 to the point I put it down a day later and waited a month for the patch to hit. I've played plenty of action games, hell I'm playing SoM right now (literally, it's on my left screen, XB1) and I tap X like a mad man in that game too.

 

The reason tapping in an action game such as SoM or whatever 'works' and didn't, for me at least, in DA2 was not how often, but the length at which you have to. At most, in Shadow's of Mordor you tap 8 times (early game) to trigger your finishers, then your pressing Y+B to execute a target. Which means not tapping X for a second or 2. If someones attacking your tapping Y quickly (and only once) to counter the move. This, ultimately, splits up what your doing and targets also tend to die a lot faster.

 

That is, right there, the biggest issue with a game like Dragon Age working off a tap-per-attack is that stuff just takes a long ass time to die. As my example SoM - 8 taps + double button Tap and they're dead. Later in the game it's 5 hits at most to trigger it, they have things that give you a 3 hit chain for 1 attack on a properly timed tap meaning you only need 3 taps to execute. They shorten the number of button presses required. DAI? You could be 50-100 taps in before your even remotely close to killing 1 enemy. And that, my friends is where the real issue lies with tapping in DA games - the length of a fight vs an individual target is to long for it.

 

That's in general, as has been stated some people just, out of habit or odd enjoyment will tap anyway. But in general the length of fights and lack of complexity ultimately just makes it drag on, and I'd prefer auto-attack. Holding the trigger for DAI if the option doesn't exist is fine though, it's about the same as firing a gun in Mass Effect or any other game really. Point at target, hold trigger, mix it up with skill uses. Still want auto-attack option in the menu.

[Dutchess]

I don't get the point of this. If I understand it right, continuously pressing a button results in the character auto-attacking. It's not like you need to click every time to execute an attack, like with Prince of Persia, Witcher, Skyrim, etc. etc. So what does it add to have to hold down a button instead of auto-attack being... automatic? 

[Adhin]

No idea Dutchess, other then maybe making it semi more responsive to disengaging? Though in my experience doing 'any' kind of movement immediately interrupted everything in the past games. And in DA2 I didn't have the issue of my skill commands being ignored for awhile, did in DAO... DAO had an awkward system that made things really unresponsive.

 

So yeah, I dunno, but it's definitely weird.

[LexXxich]

I don't question people who want to tap for basic attack. I question developers who thought making this mandatory in one camera mode is a good thing. Why not let players choose how they want to do things regardless of camera mode?

[Enad]

I don't question people who want to tap for basic attack. I question developers who thought making this mandatory in one camera mode is a good thing. Why not let players choose how they want to do things regardless of camera mode?

 

That's what I've been thinking, while I plan to play most of the game in tactical mode(due to this), I still like basic third person mode, and liking third person mode does NOT mean I want it to be action mode or whatever the hell they've been calling it. I still want the same exact gameplay but from third person, just like they've done in both previous games. This makes no sense.

[Dutchess]

No idea Dutchess, other then maybe making it semi more responsive to disengaging? Though in my experience doing 'any' kind of movement immediately interrupted everything in the past games. And in DA2 I didn't have the issue of my skill commands being ignored for awhile, did in DAO... DAO had an awkward system that made things really unresponsive.

 

So yeah, I dunno, but it's definitely weird.

 

I find DA2 less responsive than DAO. In DAO the animation for an auto attack is interrupted as soon as you choose to use an ability. In DA2 you're forced to watch Hawke execute the remainder of his/her fancy movement sequence before obeying your command. The high speed of DA2's combat offsets this problem for rogues and probably warriors (don't like 'em so I don't play 'em), but for the mage this was pretty annoying. I've had party members drop dead because Hawke was too busy pole dancing to cast a healing spell. 

Anyway, I wonder whether releasing the auto-attack button would now interrupt the animation immediately then. It still doesn't justify not making all of this simply automatic, but it might be the only silver lining I see here.

[In Exile]

I find DA2 less responsive than DAO. In DAO the animation for an auto attack is interrupted as soon as you choose to use an ability. In DA2 you're forced to watch Hawke execute the remainder of his/her fancy movement sequence before obeying your command. The high speed of DA2's combat offsets this problem for rogues and probably warriors (don't like 'em so I don't play 'em), but for the mage this was pretty annoying. I've had party members drop dead because Hawke was too busy pole dancing to cast a healing spell.
Anyway, I wonder whether releasing the auto-attack button would now interrupt the animation immediately then. It still doesn't justify not making all of this simply automatic, but it might be the only silver lining I see here.

I'm pretty sure it would interrupt. The problem in DA2 on PC was that autos attack auto triggered what was really a combo.

[rupok93]

Some clarifications hopefully to the rescue!

 

When directly controlling a character (ie not in tactical cam mode):

-Hold controller trigger to continuously "auto"-attack, tap to do a single attack (or repeatedly tap, which does the same thing as hold)

-Hold 'R' (rebindable) or hold left click to continuously "auto"-attack, tap to do a single attack (or repeatedly tap, which does the same thing as hold)

Not pressing/holding attack button/key when directly controlling a character will cause them not to attack.

 

In tactical cam mode you're basically assigning orders, so all party members will autoattack while in tac-cam. The camera can be panned and tilted all around in tac-cam mode, it's not iso/top-down locked.

 

 

This is not anything even close to auto attack, please stop trying to label it as such as that causes more confusion. Holding down a key at all times is not "auto".

[rupok93]

I like it because it makes me feel much more engaged. I would rather feel in control of every strike then just watch my character keep swinging.

Ah, yes, the "sane people." I was going to say its just the people with a different opinion then me, but your totally right. The sane people in this are the ones complaining about the control scheme in a game they haven't even played yet. Totally sane. Totally.

Ok people are asking for a toggle to turn it off or on? How does that affect you? Also this is not an action game where you are controlling one character, it gets extremely annoying to hold down a button for attack and select abilities at the same time on pc.

[Zatche]

Not that I have a huge stake in this fight, but after Barrett's explanation, I'm trying to understand the complaint. If you prefer auto-attack, is there something wrong with staying in tac-cam mode? Or am I missing something that you want to do that you can't in tac-cam mode?

[Saiphas85]

This is not anything even close to auto attack, please stop trying to label it as such as that causes more confusion. Holding down a key at all times is not "auto".

There is infact an auto attack (point and click) for PC in the Tactical Camera view (i.e. isometric view or pan b ut with highlighting, hit box circles etc) to claim there is not is false.

Modifié par Saiphas85, 19 octobre 2014 - 07:12 .

[aeoncs]

I'd understand the frustration if we had to mash buttons to attack continuously, even though it wouldn't really bother me personally, but is it really such a big deal to hold down a single button? And if it is, you can just use tactical view all the time while in combat.

[Gill Kaiser]

Not that I have a huge stake in this fight, but after Barrett's explanation, I'm trying to understand the complaint. If you prefer auto-attack, is there something wrong with staying in tac-cam mode? Or am I missing something that you want to do that you can't in tac-cam mode?

 

People on consoles can't stay in tac cam mode. In one of life's cruel ironies, to do so would require them to hold down a different button to forward time.

 

And, for the PC players, it's annoying because sometimes you just want to jump back and forth between tac and personal cam, without the functionality changing. Plus, in the tac cam, you get lots of additional information on screen such as enemy highlights through solid objects, and additional information in their tooltips, etc. It's useful, but you don't want it all the time.

[The Night Haunter]

There is infact an auto attack (point and click) for PC in the Tactical Camera view (i.e. isometric view) to claim there is not is false.

And there isn't in 3rd person, which is the most common camera view. That's what people are complaining about. To pretend that because 1 mode has auto attack all is well isn't terribly helpful. Many people feel that autoattack should be included in all modes because it is very traditional (BG/DAO/ even DA2)

[The Night Haunter]

I'd understand the frustration if we had to mash buttons to attack continuously, even though it wouldn't really bother me personally, but is it really such a big deal to hold down a single button? And if it is, you can just use tactical view all the time while in combat.

Imagine this scenario:

 

You are in 3rd person camera. You don't like pausing every other second. You prefer to use mouse over keyboard. You are standing right in front of an enemy and want to switch characters. You have to stop attacking, mouse over to the other character and switch. For a few seconds you are sitting there, not attacking.

 

This also occurs any time you want to use an active ability and don't want to /can't use a keyboard.

 

This is primarily a concern for disabled gamers, but others are affected as well.

[Saiphas85]

And there isn't in 3rd person, which is the most common camera view. That's what people are complaining about. To pretend that because 1 mode has auto attack all is well isn't terribly helpful. Many people feel that autoattack should be included in all modes because it is very traditional (BG/DAO/ even DA2)

And that is a legitimate gripe, but to claim there is no auto-attack at all is false. Specificity is what I'm looking at here. Even though on PC I plan on playing taccam almost exclusively I can understand the complaint and it is valid. I am just of the opinion that hyperbole has no use.

[rupok93]

 

 

And that is a legitimate gripe, but to claim there is no auto-attack at all is false. Specificity is what I'm looking at here. Even though on PC I plan on playing taccam almost exclusively I can understand the complaint and it is valid. I am just of the opinion that hyperbole has no use.

 

How is this hyperbole? There is no autoattack in 3rd person mode, in previous games we had it in 3rd person. Holding down a button is not "auto". I only play tac cam in certain fights or when I want to scout the area, just because tac cam has auto attack doesn't mean anything. It takes double the effort now to hold down a key whiling attacking, THEN STOP, then choose an ability or character to switch to. This sounds very annoying to do. I want to maintain my attack in these kinds of games, not stop cause the game has gimped mechanics in place. Even if I didn't stop, I would have to hold down the r button when I think I am gonna use the mouse for something else, it takes concentration away for a dumb reason.

 

Not to mention that it unsyncs mechanics from tac cam so you have to always remember that the character you are controlling random just stops attacking if you get out of that mode. Its a big annoyance.

 

This was done for no other reason than homogeneity between mp and sp combat, since mp doesn't have tac cam and you control 1 character it was fine there so they just made the mechanics the same and forgot all the issues there is with it.

 

Imagine this scenario:

 

You are in 3rd person camera. You don't like pausing every other second. You prefer to use mouse over keyboard. You are standing right in front of an enemy and want to switch characters. You have to stop attacking, mouse over to the other character and switch. For a few seconds you are sitting there, not attacking.

 

This also occurs any time you want to use an active ability and don't want to /can't use a keyboard.

 

This is primarily a concern for disabled gamers, but others are affected as well.

 

 

This sums it up perfectly.

[Adhin]

@Gill Kaiser: It actually requires we hold down the same button, funnily enough. If we're in over-shoulders combat mode we hold RT to attack. If we're in tac-mode we hold right-trigger to advance time (A turns into select/attack instead of jump/object interact). But yeah we have to hold a button regardless if we're doing combat. Which, you know, whatever. It's stupid and I'd prefer a real auto-attack option but I can live with it. I play enough shooters that holding a trigger down to interact with murdering another object isn't to big of a deal, but I prefer actual auto-attack.

[Saiphas85]

Rupon my issue was with you saying auto attack doesn't exist at. By all means complain about it not being present on consoles and 3 preson pc. But be honest with your claims. For instance for my style (TAC cam pc) it exists completely (no button hold down). To claim it doesn't exist at all is discounting a group it works just fine for to make your argument more valid.

[IST]

Because, clearly, Bioware felt they didn't get enough backlash during that month of no auto-attack for consoles with DA2, that they wanted to do it again....

This x 1000...this is still a tactical RPG, the action game references by some are odd.

 

I was part of that DA2 Auto-Attack backlash, have pretty bad arthritis and holding down a button for my 200 hours of gametime is sounding HORRENDOUS/GAME BREAKING.

 

Maybe Laidlaw forgot how much backlash there was... that got patched in quick fast due to the whiplash.