After Priority: Cerberus Base Reapers just go waltzing and casually take Citadel.
I have 2 questions:
a ) Why did it take them that long? They could take Citadel from get-go, instead of wasting their time with separate planets.
b ) If Citadel is a control center for Mass Relays, why didn't they shut them down?
It would be a short game if they were to do that.
After Priority: Cerberus Base Reapers just go waltzing and casually take Citadel.
I have 2 questions:
a ) Why did it take them that long? They could take Citadel from get-go, instead of wasting their time with separate planets.
b ) If Citadel is a control center for Mass Relays, why didn't they shut them down?
a ) Attacking Citadel head-on accomplishes nothing, it just closes its arms and stays inaccessible. To operate the arms, the Reapers need an indoctrinated servant in the Citadel itself - Saren in ME1, TIM in ME3.
b ) Because TIM told them about the Crucible and planned joint attack. Moving Citadel to Earth and putting a beam there is a trap, forcing both ground and space attack from all allied forces. As seen in Refuse ending, such an attack is doomed to failure. Have you seen the Edge of Tomorrow? It's something like this.
Decimate the fleets and armies of the entire galaxy and proceed to harvest with minimal resistance
a ) Attacking Citadel head-on accomplishes nothing, it just closes its arms and stays inaccessible. To operate the arms, the Reapers need an indoctrinated servant in the Citadel itself - Saren in ME1, TIM in ME3.
b ) Because TIM told them about the Crucible and planned joint attack. Moving Citadel to Earth and putting a beam there is a trap, forcing both ground and space attack from all allied forces. As seen in Refuse ending, such an attack is doomed to failure. Have you seen the Edge of Tomorrow? It's something like this.
Decimate the fleets and armies of the entire galaxy and proceed to harvest with minimal resistance
a ) They could disrupt absolutely everything by making it go dark like it did when they took it to Earth. They could cause panic. They could cut off major trade routes, cut off a lot of armed forces, many officials and overall start with taking Serpent Nebula which is a major transport hub. It would give them much more from the start, especially they could turn out Mass Relays so the Crucible won't ever be even built. (Since when Indoctrinating someone is hard?)
b ) But look - they've lost. Why? Exactly because of this. If everyone just stayed home at their Mass Relays, Crucible would never reach Earth. Overconfidence, arrogance, stupidity - how the hell did Reapers manage to survive with such traits?
a ) They could disrupt absolutely everything by making it go dark like it did when they took it to Earth. They could cause panic. They could cut off major trade routes, cut off a lot of armed forces, many officials and overall start with taking Serpent Nebula which is a major transport hub. It would give them much more from the start, especially they could turn out Mass Relays so the Crucible won't ever be even built. (Since when Indoctrinating someone is hard?)
b ) But look - they've lost. Why? Exactly because of this. If everyone just stayed home at their Mass Relays, Crucible would never reach Earth. Overconfidence, arrogance, stupidity - how the hell did Reapers manage to survive with such traits?
a ) Citadel is self sustained station. It can be just left out there and people inside will be safe. Officials are not cut off since there is quantum entanglement communication (as seen in the game when salarian and asari councilors contact you on the Normandy). The only thing they'll accomplish is having a few Reapers sitting there protecting the Citadel and have others doing the harvest. And when Crucible is built it will be much easier to dock since those few Reapers will be severely outnumbered by joint galactic fleet.
b ) Whether they've lost depends on your choice in the ending and let's be honest, the only reason Shepard gets to the Citadel is blind luck. How did they manage to survive? Power? Element of surprise (Citadel relay)? Overconfidence and arrogance are pretty much established traits of the Reapers. "Dust struggling against cosmic winds"...
a ) Citadel is self sustained station. It can be just left out there and people inside will be safe. Officials are not cut off since there is quantum entanglement communication (as seen in the game when salarian and asari councilors contact you on the Normandy). The only thing they'll accomplish is having a few Reapers sitting there protecting the Citadel and have others doing the harvest. And when Crucible is built it will be much easier to dock since those few Reapers will be severely outnumbered by joint galactic fleet.
b ) Whether they've lost depends on your choice in the ending and let's be honest, the only reason Shepard gets to the Citadel is blind luck. How did they manage to survive? Power? Element of surprise (Citadel relay)? Overconfidence and arrogance are pretty much established traits of the Reapers. "Dust struggling against cosmic winds"...
a) It is not like they can't move it to Earth to not "sit there guarding it", there is absolutely zero sense in not taking a Citadel. Besides, nothing implies that they couldn't indoctrinate people insane to start riots and at some point even open the arms.
b ) That's bad writing right there. If you have a billion years of experience, you should learn to think of everything and stop being an idiot. I know those are their traits, if you didn't notice, i am asking how they managed to not fail by being that stupid.
a) It is not like they can't move it to Earth to not "sit there guarding it", there is absolutely zero sense in not taking a Citadel. Besides, nothing implies that they couldn't indoctrinate people insane to start riots and at some point even open the arms.
b ) That's bad writing right there. If you have a billion years of experience, you should learn to think of everything and stop being an idiot. I know those are their traits, if you didn't notice, i am asking how they managed to not fail by being that stupid.
a ) To move it, they need to take control of it. For that they need open arms. For that they need an indoctrinated agent on the Citadel. Nothing implies they can, either. I don't know of any cases of indoctrination occurring over distance. Direct, or a very close contact with Reaper technology is required to start the process.
b ) Like I said, power and element of surprise. They never had the problem of not having control of the Citadel. Each time it was the same pattern, control Citadel, decimate government, shut down mass relays, harvest cluster by cluster. In the current cycle they have no control of the Citadel, face noticeable resistance from organics who can coordinate their actions due to relays not being shut, use hit and run tactics. A trap makes sure that the main enemy force is destroyed and the harvest will then proceed much faster.
It's all headcanon though, if you want to view Reapers as stupid, be my guest. I prefer to see a reason in their actions.
After Priority: Cerberus Base Reapers just go waltzing and casually take Citadel.
I have 2 questions:
a ) Why did it take them that long? They could take Citadel from get-go, instead of wasting their time with separate planets.
b ) If Citadel is a control center for Mass Relays, why didn't they shut them down?
Fanon explanations first:
( a ) You need someone already on board the Citadel in a position of power to take the thing, otherwise it just turtles up. It was built as the perfect fortress. In this sense, the Cerberus Coup can actually be viewed as an attempted take-over by the Reapers, since Cerberus was indoctrinated. TIM plus Cerberus moles plus ridiculous domination powers was eventually enough, just like Saren plus smuggled in Geth was eventually enough.
( b ) The Normandy has a Reaper IFF. And Cerberus' access to the Collector base demonstrates that the Reaper IFF can be copied. So they lock down the mass relays... and Normandy continues flying through them, and copies out the IFF so that everyone else can fly through as well. (I like to think the relays were locked down by the finale, but that the allied fleets had already been distributed with IFFs in case this happened.)
Real world explanations:
( a ) and ( b ) - It genuinely looks like they just didn't think of it. Honestly, a single line of dialogue would have been nice...
b ) Because TIM told them about the Crucible and planned joint attack. Moving Citadel to Earth and putting a beam there is a trap, forcing both ground and space attack from all allied forces. As seen in Refuse ending, such an attack is doomed to failure. Have you seen the Edge of Tomorrow? It's something like this.
Decimate the fleets and armies of the entire galaxy and proceed to harvest with minimal resistance
P. Weekes answered this one in an interview: said the Keepers were preventing them from taking full control again. One can presume they get it back if/when Shepard reneges the plan with the Crucible.
How does that make any sense at all?
Synthesis won't negate their domination. The Leviathan effortlessly dominate a Sovereign-class Reaper on Despoina (you know, Organic-Synthetic hybrids).
You're saying that what the crucible+shep do to everyone -- reapers included -- is make them the same as what reapers already are? Hmm...
How does that make any sense at all?
Someone on their side can rewrite the Keepers back to their original programming.
Yes, the Crucible turns everyone into goo and pours them into synthetic constructs.
Captain, we're getting some strange readings, here.
What is it, lieutenant?
Well... it's the sarcasm detector. It's going a little crazy.
Clarify.
Well, it seems to detect the sarcasm just fine, but...
But?
it's just that the sarcasm in this instance makes no sense.
I'm assuming there's a point to this, lieutenant.
Uh, yessir. He's being sarcastic about the point he was trying to make in the conversation.
Hmm, maybe if I say please, you'll explain this so I can understand. Lieutenant, please clarify.
Sorry sir. We know that, as presented, the synthesis ending of ME3 appears to change every living organism in the galaxy at their deepest structural levels, combining synthetic life with organic life...
Yes. This is known.
... and he was using a reaper, in his words an "organic-synthetic hybrid", as an example of how the Leviathan's mind-control tactics wouldn't be affected by a synthesis ending.
Okay, lieutenant, still not quite sure what you're getting at here.
Sir, the implication is that the reapers are already synthesized and the mind-control already worked on one of them once.
Small sample size, wouldn't you agree lieutenant?
Of course, sir, but that's not what is driving our instrumentation crazy.
Correct me if I'm wrong, lieutenant, but didn't the Leviathan mind-control those reaper forces before Commander Shepard dove into the crucible beam?
Yessir.
And didn't the immense green beam change everything?
Yessir.
Even the Leviathan?
Yessir.
And isn't the galaxy a better place for it?
Uhh...
Hesitation, lieutenant?
Nosir. I mean, yessir... uh, that is, yessir to your original question and nosir on the hesitation.
Carry on, lieutenant.
Sir?
What is it now, lieutenant.
Sir, the instruments?
Ah yes. So, what you are saying is that when we questioned him on his definition of what a reaper is in relation to our supposition that the Leviathan might not a) be able to mind-control anything anymore or b ) have any desire to mind-control anything anymore, he became sarcastic as a means of deflecting the question?
Yessir, that is how it appears, sir.
I have no doubt we will need these instruments working properly in the future. Run a diagnostic and carry on with the mission, lieutenant.
Yessir.
Someone on their side can rewrite the Keepers back to their original programming.
And this didn't happen in the last 50,000 years because...
A Reaper is a synthetic organic hybrid, but not all synthetic organic hybrids are Reapers. Unless you want to boil down what a Reaper is to just being a synthetic organic hybrid.
Ah, but after synthesis all organics, synthetics, and organic-synthetics will be the same, on a very basic level. My supposition that the Leviathan might not prefer a synthesis ending is that it would no longer be at the top of the food chain.
And this didn't happen in the last 50,000 years because...
The Reapers were not aware of the Protheans' rewrite of them for 49,999 of those years. As for the last few, security is tight around the Citadel since Sovereign's attack and tampering with Keepers is prohibited (where have you been??)
The Reapers were not aware of the Protheans' rewrite of them for 49,999 of those years. As for the last few, security is tight around the Citadel since Sovereign's attack and tampering with Keepers is prohibited (where have you been??)
The Rachni Wars are implied to have been instigatd by Sovereign two millenia before to take the Citadel. But we'll let that go.
Security couldn't be that tight, Cerberus came within a heartbeat of taking the Citadel. And the Reapers just walked away with it once TIM ratted out the Crucible to them.
So again, why didn't they reprogram the Keepers before? Why Couldn't the Catalyst do it? Heck why didn't they shut down the relays lke they did EVERY SINGLE TIME they did a culling before once they had the Citadel?
Regards the Citadel:
At first men laughed and did not greatly fear such devices. For the main wall of the City was of great height and marvelous thickness, built ere the power and craft of Numénor waned in exile; and its outward face was like to the Tower of Orthanc, hard and dark and smooth, unconquerable by steel or fire, unbreakable except by some convulsion that would rend the very earth on which it stood.
“Nay,” they said, “not if the Nameless One himself should come, not even he could enter here while we yet live.” But some answered: “While we yet live? How long? He has a weapon that has brought low many strong places since the world began. Hunger. The roads are cut. Rohan will not come.”
The Reapers don't need to conquer it at first.
The Rachni Wars are implied to have been instigatd by Sovereign two millenia before to take the Citadel. But we'll let that go.
Security couldn't be that tight, Cerberus came within a heartbeat of taking the Citadel. And the Reapers just walked away with it once TIM ratted out the Crucible to them.
So again, why didn't they reprogram the Keepers before? Why Couldn't the Catalyst do it? Heck why didn't they shut down the relays lke they did EVERY SINGLE TIME they did a culling before once they had the Citadel?
I always kinda thought that the catalyst takes a hands-off approach; doesn't micromanage the reapers, doesn't interfere with anything the organics do try and stop the harvest. Just a thought.
The Rachni Wars are implied to have been instigatd by Sovereign two millenia before to take the Citadel. But we'll let that go.
It does not contradict the notion that the Reapers were unaware of the Protheans' sabotage until after Sovereign's failed attempt to take the Citadel, anyway, so why bring it up?
Security couldn't be that tight, Cerberus came within a heartbeat of taking the Citadel. And the Reapers just walked away with it once TIM ratted out the Crucible to them. So again, why didn't they reprogram the Keepers before?
How many indoctrinated thralls did the Reapers have at their disposal between the end of ME1 and start of ME3? I do not think they had many. Obviously after they've arrived it's only a matter of time until they fix the problem, which is what I said. You can bet it will happen if Shepard does not use the Crucible.
Why Couldn't the Catalyst do it?
Since when does the Catalyst have a mobile platform to do that kind of work? The Reapers are it, pretty much (and, by extension, indoctrinated thralls), and they were not around or prominent until very recently.
Heck why didn't they shut down the relays lke they did EVERY SINGLE TIME they did a culling before once they had the Citadel?
...
Um, I just explained this on the 8th post of this page.
Hint: the source is Pat Weekes.
It does not contradict the notion that the Reapers were unaware of the Protheans' sabotage until after Sovereign's failed attempt to take the Citadel, anyway, so why bring it up?
They knew something was wrong. Something the Catalyst should have had a clue about.
How many indoctrinated thralls did the Reapers have at their disposal between the end of ME1 and start of ME3? I do not think they had many. Obviously after they've arrived it's only a matter of time until they fix the problem, which is what I said. You can bet it will happen if Shepard does not use the Crucible.
How many indoctrinated Cerberus goons were running around the Citadel during the coup?
How many Heretic geth were running around the Citadel in ME1?
Since when does the Catalyst have a mobile platform to do that kind of work? The Reapers are it, pretty much (and, by extension, indoctrinated thralls), and they were not around or prominent until very recently.
Actually, in both ME1 and ME2, SHepard can encounter people who have run afoul of indoctrination. For some reason thwy go the "impale myself on Dragon's Teeth" route rather than "infiltration" mode.
Heck for that matter, the Collectors were running around abducting entire colonies for two years. They couldn't keep a few to send to the Citadel?
And this is assuming the Catalyst's sole control over the Citadel it resides in is the one magic elevator. Or again, the Cerberus Coup
...
Um, I just explained this on the 8th post of this page.
Hint: the source is Pat Weekes.
And after the Reapers grab the Citadel? Why not shut down the relays then? Harbinger could have mated with the Citadel and won it all for the Reapers.
Not enough with enough time to study and work out how to change the Keepers back. That part of it's fine.How many indoctrinated Cerberus goons were running around the Citadel during the coup?
How many Heretic geth were running around the Citadel in ME1?
Harbinger could have mated with the Citadel and won it all for the Reapers.
Mate with the Citadel? Maker, think of the children.
Retour en haut