585 réponses à ce sujet

[Kenshen]

Synthesis for me represented the only true escape from the "human condition." Look at our world today; it's hateful, cynical, often uneducated, and often brutal. That these qualities exist even in Mass Effect's far future societies tells how prevalent they STILL are. Now imagine an outcome (in a game, I know, but this is that passion of mine) that could produce not just a world, but a UNIVERSE without racism, sexism, age prejudice, sexual-orientation prejudice, class prejudice, and all the other shortcomings present in EVERY societal existence! A universe with not only the collected knowledge of every species we have ever known, but also of the billions that we haven't! The barriers between superiority and inferiority truly vanish for the first time, and the potential of EVERY individual transcends all precedence! The way is open for true objectivity, access to an unending reservoir of knowledge, and the founding of a true Utopia on a galaxy wide scale! Think of how inconceivable these ideals are if you try to reconcile them in our society today. Achieving these outcomes was what made me hobble my Shep for that green beam.

 

 

 

I am not sure that is how it works.  It is combining organic and machine but we would retain our individuality.  We all don't all suddenly think with a hive mind like the geth did so there would still be some forms of racism, sexism. and prejudices even within our own species.  Granted I have only ever picked synthesis once so maybe I have forgotten how it works  Still even if I am wrong on how it works it still wouldn't be the utopia you describe because I for one would fight it and work towards reversing the condition and I know I wouldn't be the only one unless I have no control over my personal thoughts and that sounds like a hell to me not a paradise.  Another thing, what happens to future organics that evolve because it will happen given enough time, will they be forced to join the "master race" or die much like how Javik describes prothean society was pre reaper invasion and the choice the lesser races were given?  

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Never read Mac's Walter White quote in full. WOW, that is idiotic.

Once 'read a comment on youtube where someone called Mac and Casey "PR suicide" (video was about their (dumb) logic behind showing Tali's face). Boy did that hit the nail on the head.

 

(... can't change the font of my posts on this computer. F me).

[Iakus]

Apologies in advance for length.

I don't know, I think there's a good ending. It's just my opinion, but I liked synthesis. I'm not saying it was executed all that logically, but I think the implications make it one of the stronger endings in any game I've played. Admittedly, I am a bit biased because I am getting my degree in Sociology, so implications like those involved in synthesis REALLY excite my passion for the subject. (I actually wrote a paper in my undergrad based on this)

 

Synthesis for me represented the only true escape from the "human condition." Look at our world today; it's hateful, cynical, often uneducated, and often brutal. That these qualities exist even in Mass Effect's far future societies tells how prevalent they STILL are. Now imagine an outcome (in a game, I know, but this is that passion of mine) that could produce not just a world, but a UNIVERSE without racism, sexism, age prejudice, sexual-orientation prejudice, class prejudice, and all the other shortcomings present in EVERY societal existence! A universe with not only the collected knowledge of every species we have ever known, but also of the billions that we haven't! The barriers between superiority and inferiority truly vanish for the first time, and the potential of EVERY individual transcends all precedence! The way is open for true objectivity, access to an unending reservoir of knowledge, and the founding of a true Utopia on a galaxy wide scale! Think of how inconceivable these ideals are if you try to reconcile them in our society today. Achieving these outcomes was what made me hobble my Shep for that green beam.

 

I didn't like the other solutions for a couple reasons. First, Destroy reminded me of the ending in Assassin's Creed III. Yes, I destroy the Reapers, but there's still no hope for lasting change in such a solution. It's a Band-Aid on a bullet wound; history will continue to simply repeat itself. Sooner or later organics would make more synthetics and repeat the same Terminator cycle we always see. The social implications don't change very much either, and would likely only get worse with the scarce resources (We gain no new knowledge to repair mass relays. No more relays = no more trade.)

 

I think Control is the least moral of all the options. It skips ALL notion of elected officials or any sense of self-government or self-determination. Grand Master Shepard elevates his/her self and gets to make completely arbitrary decisions with the most powerful military force in the galaxy on a whim. There's ZERO influence from any sort of democratic process from ANY species, and the galaxy gets to bow down and smile. I don't see what authority he/she has to turn the galaxy into a perpetual dictatorship. A human who's species has been spacefaring for a couple decades gets to now dictate to civilizations who have been spaceflight-capable cultures for thousands of years???

 

I completely understand the strong argument as to what moral authority Shepard has to re-write others on a genetic level. However, as I see it, it is the "least morally wrong" choice of all the options. To choose destroy is to (eventually) sentence the galaxy to more conflict between organics & synthetics. Every death caused from such conflict is in a way on Shepard's head for failing to advance societies past such conflicts right there and then. I've said my piece on control, and I just think that for the benefits synthesis grants, the moral downside is outweighed by the greater good. I think synthesis's moral dilemma also show the cost a society would have to pay in order to achieve a perfection that we cannot know in our present forms, and that's a deep concept I don't see echoed in the other endings.

 

And my response to quote Captain Mal Reynolds:

 

Sure as I know anything, I know this , they will try again.  Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean.  A year from now, ten?  They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better.  And I do not hold to that.

 

If you deploy technology to alter people's minds, even to remove "bad thoughts" you are removing free will.  they are not growing into this new, greater existence through knowledge or experience or cultural change, it's being forced on them, their minds forcibly altered to fit into another's perception of "perfection"  How is that any different than the Reapers "helping them to ascend"?

 

As to destroying the Reapers:  Yes there is hope.  I do not believe the cycle of destruction is inevitable.  I do not believe that organics and synthetics must fight "because organic and synthetic"  In fact, I believe that much of the so-called "evidence" we have about "inevitable" conflict has been manufactured by the Reapers themselves.

[Iakus]

 

Shepard's council choice changes the way the galaxy perceives humanity.  

 

But yes, the final choice in the entire trilogy and the end of the Reaper threat was much larger in scope.

 

Well, I'm glad we agree on something at least.

 

But the  sheer magnitude of the final choice shows how much more care needed to be taken with it.

 

 

A canonical "easter egg" that confirms Shepard's survival.

Happens all the time in games, even those with choices, and it happened to a degree to Commander Shepard of the Alliance Navy.

 

 

Show me developer confirmation that Shepard canonically survives.  Not "is implied to survive" not "is an indication"  Find me someone who says "Yes Shepard lives and is rescued"

 

  ME3 can actually look quite different based on your choices throughout ME1 and ME2.

 

 

And Shepard must burn every time.

[SilJeff]

Bioware's Tully Ackland says in the game's forums that shepard indeed lives

http://www.dsogaming...epard-lives.jpg

 

 

 

Shepard only burns in lower EMS destroy endings, refuse and synthesis if you look at it in a certain way. He lives in high ems destroy, and he lives on as the guy in charge of the reapers in control.

 

 

the galaxy has more than 30 outcomes thanks to the Extended Cut. You may or may not like it a slideshow, but your choices in the trilogy most definitely matter. And in fact moreso here than in 1's (30+ vs 2) and 2's (30+ vs 9) endings. Shepard's outcome is far from the only aspect of the ending

[dreamgazer]

Well, I'm glad we agree on something at least.

We've agreed on plenty before, and we probably agree on more than you realize here, once you cut through the willful pessimism. 
 

But the  sheer magnitude of the final choice shows how much more care needed to be taken with it.

 

It needed more polish, but I prefer a tough, debatable scenario like this to the nonsense of the dark energy and conventional victory alternatives. 

 

Show me developer confirmation that Shepard canonically survives.  Not "is implied to survive" not "is an indication"  Find me someone who says "Yes Shepard lives and is rescued"

"You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together."
 
The bolded is your confirmation of Shepard's survival.  Granted, I'm not opposed to visualizing the rescue, but I also appreciate a Finger-Twitching Revival when I see it and don't require more to be spoonfed. 

 

And Shepard must burn every time.

 

Shepard surrenders his physical form in two of the three endings for a greater purpose, yes. 

S/he survives in the destroy ending, Out of the Inferno, despite being Not Afraid to Die when popping the tube.

[Iakus]

Bioware's Tully Ackland says in the game's forums that shepard indeed lives

http://www.dsogaming...epard-lives.jpg

 

 

 

Shepard only burns in lower EMS destroy endings, refuse and synthesis if you look at it in a certain way. He lives in high ems destroy, and he lives on as the guy in charge of the reapers in control.

 

 

the galaxy has more than 30 outcomes thanks to the Extended Cut. You may or may not like it a slideshow, but your choices in the trilogy most definitely matter. And in fact moreso here than in 1's (30+ vs 2) and 2's (30+ vs 9) endings. Shepard's outcome is far from the only aspect of the ending

"is meant to suggest"

 

"There is hope"

 

Sorry.  Not enough

[AlanC9]

Why not?

And how did this thread go from being a quasi-IT rant to yet another thread about Shepard doesn't survive enough, or whatever the complaint is. We derailed on, what, the third post?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Bioware's Tully Ackland says in the game's forums that shepard indeed lives

http://www.dsogaming...epard-lives.jpg

 

 

 

Shepard only burns in lower EMS destroy endings, refuse and synthesis if you look at it in a certain way. He lives in high ems destroy, and he lives on as the guy in charge of the reapers in control.

 

 

the galaxy has more than 30 outcomes thanks to the Extended Cut. You may or may not like it a slideshow, but your choices in the trilogy most definitely matter. And in fact moreso here than in 1's (30+ vs 2) and 2's (30+ vs 9) endings. Shepard's outcome is far from the only aspect of the ending

 

But really, who cares about the 30+ different endings with one measly slide. Like you're really going to notice "Oh wow! There's that slide showing _____! My choice of _____ really made a difference!" I don't know. Maybe some people will notice. I sure as hell didn't notice a lot of differences. But then I don't have 16 wildly different play throughs either. I think I have 4. I chose Control twice and Destroy twice.

[SporkFu]

But really, who cares about the 30+ different endings with one measly slide. Like you're really going to notice "Oh wow! There's that slide showing _____! My choice of _____ really made a difference!" I don't know. Maybe some people will notice. I sure as hell didn't notice a lot of differences. But then I don't have 16 wildly different play throughs either. I think I have 4. I chose Control twice and Destroy twice.

I found it kinda funny in my last trilogy run; in ME2 I barely spoke to Jacob, and not at all after his LM, and he took a rocket to the face on the suicide mission, and I never heard him whispering in any of the dream sequences in ME3. I never gave him another thought, and the only time his absence was even noteworthy was during the citadel DLC when I saw some of those refugee kids stealing credits out of the claw game while others distracted the arcade doorman* ...and there he was saluting and smiling on one of those end slides after I destroyed the reapers. I was thinking, "who the hell was that?" 

* may not actually have happened.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I found it kinda funny in my last trilogy run; in ME2 I barely spoke to Jacob, and not at all after his LM, and he took a rocket to the face on the suicide mission, and I never heard him whispering in any of the dream sequences in ME3. I never gave him another thought, and the only time his absence was even noteworthy was during the citadel DLC when I saw some of those refugee kids stealing credits out of the claw game while others distracted the arcade doorman* ...and there he was saluting and smiling on one of those end slides after I destroyed the reapers. I was thinking, "who the hell was that?" 

* may not actually have happened.

 

No one really remembers Jacob Taylor. Did he fight in the war? I heard he was on Earth somewhere. Someone get back to me on that, okay?

[SporkFu]

No one really remembers Jacob Taylor. Did he fight in the war? I heard he was on Earth somewhere. Someone get back to me on that, okay?

As far as I know he was either 

a) blown up with the rest of the collector base, or b ) thrown out the airlock with Jack, Thane, Zaeed and Mordin in a proper naval burial in space.

 

Maybe he'll make it back to Earth in a thousand years or so 

[dreamgazer]

No one really remembers Jacob Taylor. 

 

Who?

[SilJeff]

But really, who cares about the 30+ different endings with one measly slide. Like you're really going to notice "Oh wow! There's that slide showing _____! My choice of _____ really made a difference!" I don't know. Maybe some people will notice. I sure as hell didn't notice a lot of differences. But then I don't have 16 wildly different play throughs either. I think I have 4. I chose Control twice and Destroy twice.

 

Well, those slides show that the whole galaxy can be in many states. They show that for example, the Krogan could be flourishing, in ruin, preparing for conquest [if Wreav was in Wrex's place, etc.  Being slides was the best way to show your decisions mattering while not making the EC more expensive to produce and thus not be a free DLC [I hear that with the EC as is, they at one point considered charging for it but didn't, so I guarantee that having the additional cost of making several 30 minute long cutscenes showing you every decision outcome combination]. Like it or not, they show you the decision outcomes in a way that doesn't take lots of headcanoning.

 

I am fine with them being shown as slides because I found them easy to interpret. Krogan could be in ruin or flourishing or rallying for war. Geth and/or Quarians could be dead, separate [Geth may go with the Reapers in some Control endings for example], or living in harmony together, the major characters can be dead or in different states [Jack for example could be dead, alive and working with her students, or mourning their deaths], the Citadel was rebuilt or was left in ruin, of course there's the differences based on the final choice [no reapers in post-Destroy, Reapers rebuilding in Control, can't remember what happens in the post-Synthesis in regards to the reapers because I never pick it], everyone could be dead and this cycle ended [post-Refuse], the differences based on EMS [vaporize ending for example]. I admit that yes cutscenes would have been nicer but I am okay with Slides. I like seeing that my choices affected the whole galaxy in various ways and the slides do do that.

 

Besides, the story was done, so what else could they have done? They couldn't do more gameplay because Shepard already made his sacrifice. They couldn't just ignore the outcomes because that was one of the top complaints.

[Iakus]

Why not?
 

Because it's the same faceless torso we got in the original ending.  In the same place,  Where everyone but the LI has written Shep off as dead.  

 

A suddenly Force-Sensitive LI is not clarity (seriously, if Ash was psychic why didn't she display that on Horizon back in ME2?)

 

 A faceless torso taking a breath after walking into a fireball is not closure.  

 

"indicates" and "there is hope" is not "certainty".

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The deal with the breath scene is that it originally was supposed to be the Shepard Lives ending. Hudson wanted it to be the Shepard Lives. Mac wanted no breath scene. So the breath scene was a bit of a compromise to give "glimmer of hope" because a few of the writers felt that the ending was too bleak.... but it could have been his last breath, and some people wanted it to be his last breath. They never came out and said so because it's one of those French "Open Endings" where you have to use your imagination, take out your laptop and write a better one.

[KaiserShep]

I found it kinda funny in my last trilogy run; in ME2 I barely spoke to Jacob, and not at all after his LM, and he took a rocket to the face on the suicide mission, and I never heard him whispering in any of the dream sequences in ME3. I never gave him another thought, and the only time his absence was even noteworthy was during the citadel DLC when I saw some of those refugee kids stealing credits out of the claw game while others distracted the arcade doorman* ...and there he was saluting and smiling on one of those end slides after I destroyed the reapers. I was thinking, "who the hell was that?" 

* may not actually have happened.

 

They should've added dead Jacob's voice to the dreams, and taken snippets from his romance path regardless of the choices you make.

 

[Shepard running through the woods and oily shadows]

 

Shepaaaard. Heavy risk......but the prize.

[SporkFu]

They should've added dead Jacob's voice to the dreams, and taken snippets from his romance path regardless of the choices you make.

 

[Shepard running through the woods and oily shadows]

 

Shepaaaard. Heavy risk......but the prize.

Shepaaaaard. Belieeeeeeve it

[SilJeff]

"is meant to suggest"

 

"There is hope"

 

Sorry.  Not enough

 

further proof in the game's code:

http://s1357.photobu...3dbf19.png.html

 

The breath scene means he lives. Otherwise, they'd use different terminology. Even bioware thinks of it as a scene showing him alive.

 

 

Even if it was meant as a 'you decide' moment, I don't see why that is so bad. Do they really have to hold your hand for everything? The original endings, yes I understand being upset at the vagueness, but now? I'd be okay with one detail being up for interpretation.

[dreamgazer]

They never came out and said so because it's one of those French "Open Endings" where you have to use your imagination, take out your laptop and write a better one.

... French?

[KaiserShep]

Shepaaaaard. Belieeeeeeve it

 

Gravity's one meeeeean motha.

[ladyvader]

Sure, some of them did not have huge impact that one might expect. But so did the choices of ME1 in ME2. Heck, the game didn't even acknowledge your choice of the human councilor

 That's because the last auto save in ME1 didn't actually save anything.  That's why your choice didn't resister and Anderson didn't stay Councilor anyway.  

[dreamgazer]

Gravity's one meeeeean motha.

I'll hit 'em with the gooooood stuff.

[dreamgazer]

That's because the last auto save in ME1 didn't actually save anything.  That's why your choice didn't resister and Anderson didn't stay Councilor anyway.

Well, that and Drew K. canonized Udina as the councilor in the novels.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'll hit 'em with the gooooood stuff.

 

Can you feel it, Shepard. I can feel it.