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There is no good ending.


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#76
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Apologies in advance for length.

I don't know, I think there's a good ending. It's just my opinion, but I liked synthesis. I'm not saying it was executed all that logically, but I think the implications make it one of the stronger endings in any game I've played. Admittedly, I am a bit biased because I am getting my degree in Sociology, so implications like those involved in synthesis REALLY excite my passion for the subject. (I actually wrote a paper in my undergrad based on this)

 

Synthesis for me represented the only true escape from the "human condition." Look at our world today; it's hateful, cynical, often uneducated, and often brutal. That these qualities exist even in Mass Effect's far future societies tells how prevalent they STILL are. Now imagine an outcome (in a game, I know, but this is that passion of mine) that could produce not just a world, but a UNIVERSE without racism, sexism, age prejudice, sexual-orientation prejudice, class prejudice, and all the other shortcomings present in EVERY societal existence! A universe with not only the collected knowledge of every species we have ever known, but also of the billions that we haven't! The barriers between superiority and inferiority truly vanish for the first time, and the potential of EVERY individual transcends all precedence! The way is open for true objectivity, access to an unending reservoir of knowledge, and the founding of a true Utopia on a galaxy wide scale! Think of how inconceivable these ideals are if you try to reconcile them in our society today. Achieving these outcomes was what made me hobble my Shep for that green beam.

 

I didn't like the other solutions for a couple reasons. First, Destroy reminded me of the ending in Assassin's Creed III. Yes, I destroy the Reapers, but there's still no hope for lasting change in such a solution. It's a Band-Aid on a bullet wound; history will continue to simply repeat itself. Sooner or later organics would make more synthetics and repeat the same Terminator cycle we always see. The social implications don't change very much either, and would likely only get worse with the scarce resources (We gain no new knowledge to repair mass relays. No more relays = no more trade.)

 

I think Control is the least moral of all the options. It skips ALL notion of elected officials or any sense of self-government or self-determination. Grand Master Shepard elevates his/her self and gets to make completely arbitrary decisions with the most powerful military force in the galaxy on a whim. There's ZERO influence from any sort of democratic process from ANY species, and the galaxy gets to bow down and smile. I don't see what authority he/she has to turn the galaxy into a perpetual dictatorship. A human who's species has been spacefaring for a couple decades gets to now dictate to civilizations who have been spaceflight-capable cultures for thousands of years???

 

I completely understand the strong argument as to what moral authority Shepard has to re-write others on a genetic level. However, as I see it, it is the "least morally wrong" choice of all the options. To choose destroy is to (eventually) sentence the galaxy to more conflict between organics & synthetics. Every death caused from such conflict is in a way on Shepard's head for failing to advance societies past such conflicts right there and then. I've said my piece on control, and I just think that for the benefits synthesis grants, the moral downside is outweighed by the greater good. I think synthesis's moral dilemma also show the cost a society would have to pay in order to achieve a perfection that we cannot know in our present forms, and that's a deep concept I don't see echoed in the other endings.

 

The big thing about Synthesis to me, besides the fact that Shepard's got no place deciding to make that kind of change to all life everywhere, is that I don't like the method behind it. All those problems you mentioned, yes Synthesis fixes them, so I guess the social impact of the Green Beam is a good outcome, but the fact that it's literally achieved by a green beam that literally gets pulled out in the last 5 minutes feels... limp. In a practical sense Synthesis is great, or it's supposed to be. Hell, in real life I might seriously consider forcing Synthesis on everyone in the world, but as an ending to this story it just feels cheap, with a pretty hopeless message, and kind of lazy. I just don't like how out of nowhere it is, it's completely jarring in the context of ME.

 

It's funny because to me Destroy is the most hopeful one, because I always felt like that way the galaxy is actually going their own way having learned something. There will still be wars and things will go wrong, but people will just go on with their lives. Also, the Cycle was only a cycle because the Catalyst made it one. In fact, if Synthetics were such a problem how were Leviathans still the apex race of their time when they built the Catalyst?


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#77
teh DRUMPf!!

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 As to the OP, I can see any of Destroy, Control or Sync as good endings. I don't think anyone considers Refuse a good ending, not even those who may support it as "moral victory"-nonsense because the loss of your entire world sucks no matter how you spin it.

 

I see Destroy as good in a "free" kind of a way, Control as good in an "orderly" kind of a way, and Sync as good in a "discovery" kind of a way. Ultimately the last one appeals to my tastes the most. Control would be next.

 

Criticism for the green ending, depending on who you ask, comes down to people seeing it as a pessimistic choice or one that risks opening up a Pandora's box of things we are not truly ready for (or both). Well, sure, if you choose Sync because you feel it's the only way we can get along then that's a pretty sad statement ... but for me it was actually chosen with good faith in the galaxy. I feel like the unity and cooperation they demonstrated in the war bodes well for the future, that they can have the nice things and tackle any problems that may arise from it, so I did not feel like it was society's only hope nor did I feel too worried about the galaxy's ability to take these new changes in stride.


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#78
sH0tgUn jUliA

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When I first played the game, one line stood out: "Releasing the energy of the Crucible will destroy the mass relays." I'd played Arrival. I knew what happened when a mass relay was destroyed. If the mass relays were destroyed anyway, and somehow the reapers managed to survive, what was the point in all of this? If we were going out anyway, I was going to take them with me. I blew up the galaxy and the reapers. Somehow Joker, Liara, and Javik found a world on which to raise little Asari.

 

Well that was back in the day of the original ending when the whole thing was "Speculations from everyone."



#79
SilJeff

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As to the OP, I can see any of Destroy, Control or Sync as good endings. I don't think anyone considers Refuse a good ending, not even those who may support it as "moral victory"-nonsense because the loss of your entire world sucks no matter how you spin it.

I see Destroy as good in a "free" kind of a way, Control as good in an "orderly" kind of a way, and Sync as good in a "discovery" kind of a way. Ultimately the last one appeals to my tastes the most. Control would be next.

Criticism for the green ending, depending on who you ask, comes down to people seeing it as a pessimistic choice or one that risks opening up a Pandora's box of things we are not truly ready for (or both). Well, sure, if you choose Sync because you feel it's the only way we can get along then that's a pretty sad statement ... but for me it was actually chosen with good faith in the galaxy. I feel like the unity and cooperation they demonstrated in the war bodes well for the future, that they can have the nice things and tackle any problems that may arise from it, so I did not feel like it was society's only hope nor did I feel too worried about the galaxy's ability to take these new changes in stride.


Never really thought of synthesis in this way. I still prefer the paragon version of Control most of all, but looking at Synthesis this way makes me not mind it

#80
SilJeff

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Sorry, double post

Evil indoctrinated phone...

#81
Isaidlunch

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It's always bothered me how disconnected the other endings are from the rest of the game, it's especially obvious with some of the romances that end on an unsatisfying note if you don't pick Destroy. Miranda's going to be waiting a long time for Shepard to "find" her.



#82
Stronglav

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What was the trouble for them to make a standard happy end ending?

Reapers destoryed and everyone is happy.Geth peace with quarians.

Krogan have better future.And everybody else too.



#83
KaiserShep

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A standard happy ending tends to be maligned as too safe or boring.



#84
themikefest

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I got the good ending. Reapers destroyed, femshep takes a breath of fresh air and later she can be seen in Vancouver having drinks with Samantha.



#85
AlanC9

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What was the trouble for them to make a standard happy end ending?
Reapers destoryed and everyone is happy.Geth peace with quarians.
Krogan have better future.And everybody else too.


They wanted to have an interesting and difficult choice at the end, apparently. The only other ME3 plot we know anything about had an even worse dilemma at the end.
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#86
SilJeff

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I consider a high ems paragon version of control ending a happy one- Shepard sacrifices himself to become the new leader of the reapers who repair everything broken, no races are sacrificed, the galaxy never has to worry about another reaper sized threat since they now have a protector [shepard and his new protection force. There is nothing saying they don't do this so I think Shepard and the reapers protect the galaxy from darkspace as to let the galaxy not have to see the reapers everywhere they go. I think the reapers only stay in the renegade version since shepard becomes a dictator in that version {the same reason why I don't like the renegade version of Control}].

 

 

Highest [relative to the others] reward in my opinion, and the least amount of loss, and with the reapers repairing everything, the quickest return to normalcy.



#87
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The smell of ashes in the morning is more exhilarating than the strongest coffee money can buy.

 

Thus, Red is the best ending.



#88
Dabrikishaw

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Never read Mac's Walter White quote in full. WOW, that is idiotic.

Once 'read a comment on youtube where someone called Mac and Casey "PR suicide" (video was about their (dumb) logic behind showing Tali's face). Boy did that hit the nail on the head.

 



#89
FlyingSquirrel

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I consider a high ems paragon version of control ending a happy one- Shepard sacrifices himself to become the new leader of the reapers who repair everything broken, no races are sacrificed, the galaxy never has to worry about another reaper sized threat since they now have a protector [shepard and his new protection force. There is nothing saying they don't do this so I think Shepard and the reapers protect the galaxy from darkspace as to let the galaxy not have to see the reapers everywhere they go. I think the reapers only stay in the renegade version since shepard becomes a dictator in that version {the same reason why I don't like the renegade version of Control}].

 

Part of the problem for me is that Bioware still made Paragon Control's narration kind of creepy. It's less disturbing than the Renegade version, certainly, but there's still a lot of "I will" and not much "we," and basically no acknowledgement of the uneven balance of power (that "there is power in control" line left me decidedly uncomfortable). And even a well-intentioned AI-Shepard may find it difficult to decide when exactly it's appropriate to intervene and when to defer to existing procedures and structures for resolving conflicts. Just sending all the Reapers to dark space might not prove as simple as it sounds. What happens next time there's a natural disaster that could kill millions of people at once, and they could be saved by sending a Reaper - does AI-Shepard refuse out of a principle of non-intervention? Or what if a hostile new species were discovered and something like the rachni wars breaks out with the potential to devastate entire worlds, and a Reaper peacekeeping force could put an end to it with minimal casualties? 


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#90
AlanC9

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I don't see the problem. Bio shouldn't be telling us how our Shepards resolve such issues. I wouldn't mind a playable epilogue, but without that I don't think they should get into the details.
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#91
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Part of the problem for me is that Bioware still made Paragon Control's narration kind of creepy. It's less disturbing than the Renegade version, certainly, but there's still a lot of "I will" and not much "we," and basically no acknowledgement of the uneven balance of power (that "there is power in control" line left me decidedly uncomfortable). And even a well-intentioned AI-Shepard may find it difficult to decide when exactly it's appropriate to intervene and when to defer to existing procedures and structures for resolving conflicts. Just sending all the Reapers to dark space might not prove as simple as it sounds. What happens next time there's a natural disaster that could kill millions of people at once, and they could be saved by sending a Reaper - does AI-Shepard refuse out of a principle of non-intervention? Or what if a hostile new species were discovered and something like the rachni wars breaks out with the potential to devastate entire worlds, and a Reaper peacekeeping force could put an end to it with minimal casualties? 

 

 

With your mentioned disasters at the bottom, I think that is where the Geth would come into play. You see in the Extended Cut that the Geth go with the reapers [at least, that is what happened every time I picked Control]. I think that the Geth basically become the go between between the galaxy and the Shepareapers. I think they would be a "UN Peacekeaping" force of sorts and would help out with issues within the galaxy, whether it is aiding the people of the galaxy of a major natural disaster or a Rachni-esque war. The Geth wouldn't be a secret police like the blackshirts of fascist nations by any means [well, maybe they would act as such in the renegade version], but a force that represents the Shepareapers without the Shepareapers having to intervene themselves.



#92
ImaginaryMatter

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With your mentioned disasters at the bottom, I think that is where the Geth would come into play. You see in the Extended Cut that the Geth go with the reapers [at least, that is what happened every time I picked Control]. I think that the Geth basically become the go between between the galaxy and the Shepareapers. I think they would be a "UN Peacekeaping" force of sorts and would help out with issues within the galaxy, whether it is aiding the people of the galaxy of a major natural disaster or a Rachni-esque war. The Geth wouldn't be a secret police like the blackshirts of fascist nations by any means [well, maybe they would act as such in the renegade version], but a force that represents the Shepareapers without the Shepareapers having to intervene themselves.

 

I always found that slide a little disconcerting. After the events of Rannoch, assuming peace was chosen, they seemed to be in a state of gradually moving closer to the Quarians; the Geth were moving into the Quarian suits, for example. I guess the point of the slide is to reflect that organics and synthetics supposedly can't live in peace, or whatever, but to me the scene strikes me with the feeling that Shepard's assuming of Control critically altered some balance.



#93
SilJeff

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I always found that slide a little disconcerting. After the events of Rannoch, assuming peace was chosen, they seemed to be in a state of gradually moving closer to the Quarians; the Geth were moving into the Quarian suits, for example. I guess the point of the slide is to reflect that organics and synthetics supposedly can't live in peace, or whatever, but to me the scene strikes me with the feeling that Shepard's assuming of Control critically altered some balance.

 

Yeah, you are likely right, my idea was simply me trying to interpret this slide:

http://img.photobuck...GethReapers.jpg

Obviously, this is the synthesis ending version. There is a control version of this but lacks the green



#94
Degs29

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why red is not good?

 

I guess it depends on your definition of "life".  Does something have to be organic to be "alive"?  What's the difference between organic and synthetic intelligence?  Anyone who knows a decent bit of biology knows that there's very little difference.  Do you believe in a soul?  Can synthetics have a soul, or is that primarily an organic thing? 

 

My own answers to those questions makes the "red" ending seem like genecide.  So red doesn't work for me.  After all this time, I still don't think there is a good ending for me, but I currently lean towards "blue". 


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#95
Iakus

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I guess it depends on your definition of "life".  Does something have to be organic to be "alive"?  What's the difference between organic and synthetic intelligence?  Anyone who knows a decent bit of biology knows that there's very little difference.  Do you believe in a soul?  Can synthetics have a soul, or is that primarily an organic thing? 

 

My own answers to those questions makes the "red" ending seem like genecide.  So red doesn't work for me.  After all this time, I still don't think there is a good ending for me, but I currently lean towards "blue". 

I'm wit you on all that, but I say there are no good endings.  Full stop. Not Destroy, not Control, not Synthesis.  Not one of them is worthy of gracing my screen. 



#96
Dabrikishaw

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Frankly, I've come around from being a Destroy-only guy to accepting the good merits of Control and Synthesis as well. People can "headcanon" all the pessimistic, downer ending stuff they want about these endings and I'm not gonna stop them, but I'm not like that and have no desire to adopt that mindset.


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#97
SporkFu

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Frankly, I've come around from being a Destroy-only guy to accepting the good merits of Control and Synthesis as well. People can "headcanon" all the pessimistic, downer ending stuff they want about these endings and I'm not gonna stop them, but I'm not like that and have no desire to adopt that mindset.


I'm with you. I like to imagine "life in the MEU post-[ending]". Keeps me going until we get more info about the next game.
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#98
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I got the good ending. Reapers destroyed, femshep takes a breath of fresh air and later she can be seen in Vancouver having drinks with Samantha.

 

Yup. Reapers dead, Shepard wins. What could be better? That's my kind of ending.
 

 

People can "headcanon" all the pessimistic, downer ending stuff they want about these endings and I'm not gonna stop them, but I'm not like that and have no desire to adopt that mindset.

 

If you have Bioware decide the ending for you, what happens if you don't like the options or outcome they put in? With headcanon, you get to decide what's best for you.

 

That's what I did. I couldn't be more satisfied. 

 

 

When I first played the game, one line stood out: "Releasing the energy of the Crucible will destroy the mass relays." I'd played Arrival. I knew what happened when a mass relay was destroyed. If the mass relays were destroyed anyway, and somehow the reapers managed to survive, what was the point in all of this? If we were going out anyway, I was going to take them with me. I blew up the galaxy and the reapers. Somehow Joker, Liara, and Javik found a world on which to raise little Asari.

 

Hitting a relay with a laser beam is a different scenario than smashing it with a giant asteroid. The ending can't really be compared to Arrival, because it doesn't take place in the same context.

 

 

Part of the problem for me is that Bioware still made Paragon Control's narration kind of creepy. It's less disturbing than the Renegade version, certainly,

 

In ME1, Sovereign refers to the Reapers as a "legion". In ME2, EDI interrupts with "I am Legion for we are many"

 

I took the Extended Control ending as:

 

Shepard: I will destroy those who threaten the future of the many.

Shepard: I will destroy those who threaten the future of the Reapers.

 

Shepard: I will act as Guardian for the many.

Shepard: I will act as Guardian for the Reapers.

 

Shepard: I will remember those who sacrificed themselves, so that the many could survive.

Shepard: I will remember those who sacrificed themselves, so that the Reapers could survive.

 

I don't see any peacekeeping force going on here. Just replace the word many with Reapers, and you'll see what I mean. Shepard is working in the Reaper's interests now, not the galaxys. He switched sides, and is now working with the enemy.



#99
Reorte

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Criticism for the green ending, depending on who you ask, comes down to people seeing it as a pessimistic choice or one that risks opening up a Pandora's box of things we are not truly ready for (or both).

No, it doesn't (although some of those are the most likely outcome). It comes from the very idea of forcing it on everything being utterly abhorrent. And completely ludicrous.
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#100
Reorte

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If you have Bioware decide the ending for you, what happens if you don't like the options or outcome they put in? With headcanon, you get to decide what's best for you.

Headcanon is wishful thinking, or outright denial in the more extreme cases.
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