295 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Yeah honestly I rather less sway because I don't walk with that much sway and seeing my avatar do so is off putting. Especially when they tend to be the more tomboyish and swaggery type of characters. I could deal with it if the animations were consistent (I could just tweak the characterization a bit) but since they're not it seems like a half assed implementation that only serves to annoy me twice over. Especially since when I could see even my more rugged characters being feminine (walking up to someone they're interested in for one thing) they get defaulted to the damn male animations anyway. So they apparently decide to show their feminine side to freaking abominations and zombies but woe and betide they do the same for a love interest. Goddamn stupidity.

 

Selfish but hey what can I say I'm human. *shrug*

[CENIC]

Starting at 0:09 she practically falls back.

Oh, at 0:09 she switches from the "default" walk to the "perky" walk, which is, yes, cartoonishly exaggerated

[Grieving Natashina]

So, it's okay to have an unnatural gait, as long as it fits in with the idea of what you think someone in military should have? I am not putting words in your mouth, just trying to figure out the reasoning when one of the main arguments have been that walking with hip sway isn't a natural, but a forced way to walk. So is a military stance. If you have to train yourself to walk that way, it isn't natural. Either way, it is about aesthetics and not practicality. You have an image in your mind of who your Inquisitor is and you want a walk that reflects that. That is perfectly understandable and one of the reasons I would like to see a more neutral walk. It still boils down to what is pleasing to the eye and not what is "natural" or "battle ready".

 

 I live in a near a large military base, and I had a lot of friends of mine from high school ended up in the Middle East.  Most of them have seen combat.  One of them was in Kosvo, and was actually there when the US embassy was overrun.

 

Over the years, I've seen what they are like on the base and off.  When they are on the base, which I consider Skyhold being, they move exactly like I described above.  So, it's more than just what an "idea" of a military leader walking is like when they are on duty.  I've seen it, several times.  Skyhold is supposed to be a home base of operations, but it's still being on duty.

 

This is going off of my personal experiences, and I'm not claiming that it's universal.  I am saying that I've never seen anyone with combat (not just military) training wiggle their hips like that, personally.  Not in front of their subordinates and usually not in front of their peers either, at least while on base or otherwise at work.

 

A forced walk, for me, is natural.  It doesn't require any training, just having a purpose.

 

 The other night, as an experiment, I walked from one end of the house normally.  My hips moved some, but it wasn't as exaggerated and ridiculous as it has been done in the games so far.  Later, when I had to run outside to get my dog (she was barking at 2am,) I wasn't running, but I was moving with purpose.  My movements became almost identical to what was shown for the female Hawke with the swapped animations.  I was moving faster, but it looked exactly the same.  

 

 

I get it. You don't want a walk that is good. You want a walk that is good for you. 

As do you.  Heck, as does any of us.  Easy with the tone, I'm not trying to make anyone angry.  

 

What you consider a good walk then?  How would you like to move?  I'm asking for something different than what we were given.  I found an example within the DA games' animation so far that I did think was good.  I'm open to other suggestions, but I know I'm not alone when I say the walk we have been given thus far has been unpopular.

[Lady Luminous]

Oh, at 0:09 she switches from the "default" walk to the "perky" walk, which is, yes, cartoonishly exaggerated

 

Oh. I watched the whole video, which is why I was confused at why you liked it so much.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As do you.  Heck, as does any of us.  Easy with the tone, I'm not trying to make anyone angry.  

 

What you consider a good walk then?  How would you like to move?  I'm asking for something different than what we were given.  I found an example within the DA games' animation so far that I did think was good.  I'm open to other suggestions, but I know I'm not alone when I say the walk we have been given thus far has been unpopular.

 

I have no personal investment in the walk they use. However some of what you said I find insulting to my friends who walk that way. 

 

I'd say something between what we have and what you found. So between the female and male animations.  

[AresKeith]

Yeah honestly I rather less sway because I don't walk with that much sway and seeing my avatar do so is off putting. Especially when they tend to be the more tomboyish and swaggery type of characters. I could deal with it if the animations were consistent (I could just tweak the characterization a bit) but since they're not it seems like a half assed implementation that only serves to annoy me twice over. Especially since when I could see even my more rugged characters being feminine (walking up to someone they're interested in for one thing) they get defaulted to the damn male animations anyway. So they apparently decide to show their feminine side to freaking abominations and zombies but woe and betide they do the same for a love interest. Goddamn stupidity.

 

Selfish but hey what can I say I'm human. *shrug*

 

Yea they really should tone down the sway, though I personally can't complain about it lol  

[Grieving Natashina]

I have no personal investment in the walk they use. However some of what you said I find insulting to my friends who walk that way. 

 

I'd say something between what we have and what you found. So between the female and male animations.  

I don't think your friends are serving in active combat though.  It's a female warrior moving on what is more or less a military base like that where I have the issue.  That seems like a "look at me" approach.

 

This does not apply to non-combatants.  Otherwise, check your PM.  

 

And that works for me.

 

_{To the thread: Kallen and I have been friends since I joined the forums.  We're getting our own negativity and misunderstandings worked out, promise.}  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't think your friends are serving in active combat though.  It's a female warrior moving on what is more or less a military base like that where I have the issue.  That seems like a "look at me" approach.

 

This does not apply to non-combatants.  Otherwise, check your PM.  

 

And that works for me.

 

_{To the thread: Kallen and I have been friends since I joined the forums.  We're getting our own negativity and misunderstandings worked out, promise.}  

She would if she could, but that's as much as I'll say about that. I am not her, thus should not speak for her on such matters. 

 

Yeah, we are still friends. Just having a disagreement over a misunderstanding. 

[Ryzaki]

Yea they really should tone down the sway, though I personally can't complain about it lol  

 

 

I actually didn't mind it that much on my lady Qunari because her robes type hid it and I was planning on my qunari being a flirty show off no matter where she is type of character.

 

My human mage walking around like that though is a =/
 

[Grieving Natashina]

She would if she could, but that's as much as I'll say about that. I am not her, thus should not speak for her on such matters. 

 

Yeah, we are still friends. Just having a disagreement over a misunderstanding. 

Yep.  

 

<hugs>

[AresKeith]

 

I actually didn't mind it that much on my lady Qunari because her robes type hid it and I was planning on my qunari being a flirty show off no matter where she is type of character.

 

My human mage walking around like that though is a =/
 

 

She wants to show off that she's just as good as the Femqunari

 

Don't Judge!

[Ryzaki]

She wants to show off that she's just as good as the Femqunari

 

Don't Judge!

 

*snort*

 

She doesn't have half the sass. A dull imitation is all my poor human mage could manage.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yep.  

 

<hugs>

Spoiler

[KBomb]

 

My thoughts about this don't come from Hollywood or what an idea of what I think a military person "should" move like.   I live in a near a large military base, and I had a lot of friends of mine from high school ended up in the Middle East.  Most of them have seen combat.  One of them was in Kosvo, and was actually there when the US embassy was overrun.

 

Over the years, I've seen what they are like on the base and off.  When they are on the base, which I consider Skyhold being, they move exactly like I described above.  So, it's more than just what an "idea" of a military leader walking is like when they are on duty.  I've seen it, several times.  Skyhold is supposed to be a home base of operations, but it's still being on duty.

 

This is going off of my personal experiences, and I'm not claiming that it's universal.  I am saying that I've never seen anyone with combat (not just military) training wiggle their hips like that, personally.  Not in front of their subordinates and usually not in front of their peers either, at least while on base or otherwise at work.

 

A forced walk, for me, is natural.  It doesn't require any training, just having a purpose.

 

 The other night, as an experiment, I walked from one end of the house normally.  My hips moved some, but it wasn't as exaggerated and ridiculous as it has been done in the games so far.  Later, when I had to run outside to get my dog (she was barking at 2am,) I wasn't running, but I was moving with purpose.  My movements became almost identical to what was shown for the female Hawke with the swapped animations.  I was moving faster, but it looked exactly the same.  

 

 

As do you.  Heck, as does any of us.  Easy with the tone.  

 

What you consider a good walk then?  How would you like to move?  I'm asking for something different than what we were given.  I found an example within the DA games' animation so far that I did think was good.  I'm open to other suggestions, but I know I'm not alone when I say the walk we have been given thus far has been unpopular.

 

Yeah, it isn't universal. Because of my work, I have to meet with recruiters sometime. I have never see of them "march" when walking. They just walk with good posture and a strong core. Both of which can be achieved with or without combat training. As I said earlier, a ballerina has excellent balance, can move swiftly and it has nothing to do with her walk, but how her core muscles are trained. You want to roleplay your character as someone who expels authority through their appearance and movements and nothing at all is wrong with that. It's a great way to role. I want to roleplay a character who doesn't really care how people perceive her. She does what she does and her actions speak louder than her hips and that's okay too. A warrior doesn't have to adhere to the stereotype of battle hardened in the sense that she cannot be who she wants to be, unless that is who she wants to be. The title of "warrior" is a class. A label. My girl is going to walk with a sway, wear lip shine and kick the snot out of stuff while doing it. 

 

If a forced walk is natural, then so is someone who walks with a bit of sass. (I like sass instead of calling it ridiculous or stupid or hookerish, etc. Though I know you did none of the above.

 

Also, what tone did I use? I certainly didn't mean to come off as having a severe tone and apologize if you took it that way. I assure you it wasn't intended that way.

 

As for what I consider a good walk? Well, something like ME1 (I feel like I have said that so much ) I don't think that walk was overtly too feminine or masculine. I wouldn't mind having different gaits to choose from, since I do like a little sass in my step.  Since we don't have that, I think something neutral would benefit most roleplay types. And as I said, it does come down to preference. People keep using practical excuses, but they don't really stand up. It's what you like verses what you don't and that is okay. I know I am biased on it simply because I have had a lot of negative things said to me and about me because of my "girlieness" and perhaps it does make me a little sensitive when people say things about it being "unnatural" and ridiculous and stripperish. It isn't that it offends me, but it does annoy me. On that flipside, I get why some people who aren't "girlie" wouldn't want to have a character perceived that way. Which is why neutral is so delicious. 

[Roamingmachine]

Walking quietly has nothing to do with lack of hip sway. Keep in mind, I am talking about a normal hip sway. It also has nothing to do with swiftness. Balance and speed of motion can be achieved with practice, even when your walk isn't, "neutral". Conditioning and training core muscles is the largest reason you'd have excellent balance and movement. Ballerina's for example, have both. It also comes from maintaining good posture. 

 

 

Hip sway moves the center of balance around. While its certainly possible to achieve a good balance and some semblance of speed with the Isabella strut, it takes more effort and it won't be as effective due to the center of balance moving around much more and the legs coming very close, or even crossing, the centrline while walking.

As for moving quietly, you generally don't want any part of your body moving unnecessarily.Clothes make noise with every movement and your center of balance moves around, shifting your weight and creating even more noise.

 

The point of all this is that the swagger takes extra effort, especially for someone who would reasonably be expected to have been taught to move in a more efficent way. But it's ok so long as its an OPTION and not mandatory. Our characters personalities should be ours to decide and its within a realm of possibility that a badass female buttkicker would have learned to flaunt her stuff, too. Isabella certainly was one such person. But as it stands now, with one default walk for all females, a large chunk of the female pc's personality is being dictated to us. Body language is important, and if having diffrent options for it is too much for BW to handle then it should be left neutral.

[Grieving Natashina]

Spoiler

Okay, that was one of the cutest gifs I've seen in awhile.  Thanks for the giggle hun.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Okay, that was one of the cutest gifs I've seen in awhile.  Thanks for the giggle hun.  

You're welcome.

[KBomb]

Hip sway moves the center of balance around. While its certainly possible to achieve a good balance and some semblance of speed with the Isabella strut, it takes more effort and it won't be as effective due to the center of balance moving around much more and the legs coming very close, or even crossing, the centrline while walking.

As for moving quietly, you generally don't want any part of your body moving unnecessarily.Clothes make noise with every movement and your center of balance moves around, shifting your weight and creating even more noise.

 

The point of all this is that the swagger takes extra effort, especially for someone who would reasonably be expected to have been taught to move in a more efficent way. But it's ok so long as its an OPTION and not mandatory. Our characters personalities should be ours to decide and its within a realm of possibility that a badass female buttkicker would have learned to flaunt her stuff, too. Isabella certainly was one such person. But as it stands now, with one default walk for all females, a large chunk of the female pc's personality is being dictated to us. Body language is important, and if having diffrent options for it is too much for BW to handle then it should be left neutral.

I can tell you from experience, hip sway does not move your center of balance to the point it would take extra effort or move your center of gravity. As for walking quietly, that also involves a good core strength and has little to do with "walking", but more of how you use your posture and learning to "roll" your feet. If sneaking, your entire stance would change, you wouldn't be "walking" normally no matter your gait. You'd crouch down to center your gravity, then you'd either start on the ball of your foot (most common), then roll the rest of your foot downward, utilizing the flat side of your foot until the heel is down, or vice versa. In fact, if you're running or gaining speed while sneaking, it's best not to place your entire foot down, but to use the balls of your feet. That takes a lot of leg strength and core strength, again, it has little to do with how you normally walk. The traditional "Fox walk" that is used while sneaking employs these very methods. So, just like when you enter combat, you would change your stance. Same with sneaking. Your walk wouldn't interfere with your competency to do either.

 

As for the second part: I never said otherwise.  

[Roamingmachine]

I can tell you from experience, hip sway does not move your center of balance to the point it would take extra effort or move your center of gravity. As for walking quietly, that also involves a good core strength and has little to do with "walking", but more of how you use your posture and learning to "roll" your feet. If sneaking, your entire stance would change, you wouldn't be "walking" normally no matter your gait. You'd crouch down to center your gravity, then you'd either start on the ball of your foot (most common), then roll the rest of your foot downward, utilizing the flat side of your foot until the heel is down, or vice versa. In fact, if you're running or gaining speed while sneaking, it's best not to place your entire foot down, but to use the balls of your feet. That takes a lot of leg strength and core strength, again, it has little to do with how you normally walk. The traditional "Fox walk" that is used while sneaking employs these very methods. So, just like when you enter combat, you would change your stance. Same with sneaking. Your walk wouldn't interfere with your competency to do either.

 

As for the second part: I never said otherwise.  

 

I didn't actually mean that it would take extra effort to move the center balance in a swagger walk, but that it moves at all. Optimally, Your center of balance remains constantly on your centerline and roughly at equal distance from your feet at all times,without any counterbalancing movement, when walking . If you walk with a pronounced hip sway such as the one in the game, it necessitates a more pronounced than normal counterbalancing movement from your head/upper body to the opposite direction due to simple physics.Its automatic and the person doing it wouldnt even notice it under normal circumstances. The effort i'm talking about comes from trying to maintain balance when its rocked for one reason or another.The optimal "warrior walk" is simply better prepared to counter the upsetting force as the body has much fewer balance degrading motions to contend with and has wider foot placement than what a strut uses. 

 

...And talks like this is why i love BSN

[KBomb]

I didn't actually mean that it would take extra effort to move the center balance in a swagger walk, but that it moves at all. Optimally, Your center of balance remains constantly on your centerline and roughly at equal distance from your feet at all times,without any counterbalancing movement, when walking . If you walk with a pronounced hip sway such as the one in the game, it necessitates a more pronounced than normal counterbalancing movement from your head/upper body to the opposite direction due to simple physics.Its automatic and the person doing it wouldnt even notice it under normal circumstances. The effort i'm talking about comes from trying to maintain balance when its rocked for one reason or another.The optimal "warrior walk" is simply better prepared to counter the upsetting force as the body has much fewer balance degrading motions to contend with and has wider foot placement than what a strut uses. 

 

...And talks like this is why i love BSN

The only way that would be applicable is if you're ambushed and unprepared for battle, even then, if you had training, you'd recover quickly. Say you're just casually walking along with your companions, bantering, checking out your LI's butt, or simply going from point A to B, when suddenly you spot enemies ahead, or they begin an attack. You'd no longer be in "walk mode". You would then take on a fighter's stance. Your feet would spread , aligning with your shoulders, one foot slightly behind the other-- all to prepare for any upsetting balance, much like a shooter's pose to avoid the kickback from unbalancing you. You would approach your enemy with deliberate movements, both offensive and defensive. None of that would have anything to do with your gait because they would be independent of each other. Same for sneaking. If you were tracking, hunting, trying to remain undetected or following someone, you wouldn't be walking to do so. Your stance would change to reflect your actions. Walking, sneaking and combat are all different movements and the two latter ones would need specific training and practice. The former, not really. It may change from your previous gait simply because of muscle change or because your posture changed, but that isn't necessarily the case. 

 

There isn't a need to be technical really. I don't want to be that girl, but it is a fantasy setting and you're going to find things that are added, misused or tweaked simply because of artistic license and nothing to do with being historically accurate. There are inaccuracies with both armor and weapons, with combat movements and even injuries. That is to be expected because if those things were historically accurate, the game would be over before it really started and combat would be borderline boring, if not fully. A way a protagonist walks need not be anatomically or historically accurate because, and especially for a character created, it isn't so much about being accurate, but more about being pleasing to the eye. I guess what I am trying to say is there is no real reason why she can't or couldn't walk the way she does, except that people dislike the way it looks. Which is completely valid, don't get me wrong--but using historical or physical excuses for why she can't is just grasping at straws, and not very sturdy ones.

 

The problem with making a feature like that "pleasing", is that you can't please everyone. Had the animations been the same as male, I can guarantee threads would have popped up with complaints about her walk being too masculine, much like, but opposite to this thread. Had they made them neutral, people would have complained that the female didn't have her very own animations. I think with making a separate animation for the female--which a lot of people wanted-- they just fell a bit. Personally, I think they should have took their chances with something neutral. Some would complain, but in the end, it would have been a fair and even tilt and would have fit with any personality trait or class. Hopefully next time, they will do so. 

[Doominike]

Honestly though, both animations are already made and in the game, just slap a toggle in the CC, how hard can that be ? 

[Grieving Natashina]

 

 

Also, what tone did I use? I certainly didn't mean to come off as having a severe tone and apologize if you took it that way. I assure you it wasn't intended that way.

 

Forgot to mention this, but if you check my post, the "tone" comment was towards Kallen earlier this evening, not you.  I quoted her before I made that remark.  You were fine by me.  She misunderstood where I was coming from, I misunderstood where she was coming from, and her post to me came off as a little angry.  We sent some PMs, we apologized for the misunderstanding, worked it out and ended the night on a cute hug gif from her to me.

[SpiritMuse]

 
I actually didn't mind it that much on my lady Qunari because her robes type hid it and I was planning on my qunari being a flirty show off no matter where she is type of character.
 
My human mage walking around like that though is a =/

This is my main issue. Not that the walk is excessively feminine, but that it conveys so much personality and we have no choice. The first time I played DA2 as a fem!Hawke I felt compelled to make her Isabela #2 because that was implied in the way she moved. Not that that wasn't fun, but it was not what I had originally intended. It felt impossible to make her a rough tomboy in the style of Aveline because she had the wrong walk for that.

Plus there is of course the fact that the feminine walk doesn't carry over in the cutscenes. Which just makes it plain inconsistent, on top of everything else.

[Lord Bolton]

Just noticed this small thing. Female elf (Tera online) idle pose vs elf Inquisitor. It seems like the elves usually have some problems with their back and hands. 

[Jeanne]

I am PRO having as many character creator choices as we can. Walk choices would be awesome and I understand why people wouldn't want a more stylized walk being forced on them.

 

But what's with some of the messed up generalizations in this thread? No women actually walk like the DA2 animation?, it's never a natural walk and is always put on for attention? 

 

This is just wrong. I NATURALLY run and walk like the DA2 animation to the extent that it trips me out to watch it. It is completely natural and I am not doing it for attention. I'm actually very shy. I have been walking like this since I was 4 or so and have the home video to prove it!   And that is way before I knew about flirting or being sexual. When I got older some people made fun of me for it. But it is not something I am consciously aware of and I am definitely not the only one like this.

 

So hey let's keep it real and not get rude on girls like me who walk like that k guys?