295 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

I'm fine with feminine animations...when they fit the character.

 

I just don't want it forced on my fem PCs. (which is why I really prefer a gender neutral animation. Not a swagger, not a sashay.) Just someone going from point A to point B. Because those feminine animations...often won't fit my characters.

[AlexiaRevan]

Maybe I'm in the minoretee here , but I like Cass walk and I'm totaly smitten and lost . But I certainly didn't like the Dalish walk . 

 

Not because it was a 'Mainly' walk . But I just don't understand , why Bioware is having so much trouble to give us a walk that is neutrale . So everyone can be happy with it . And again , why it has to be a dude walk during cutscene ? why is it never the other way around ? 

 

I normally dont notice walk , unless its extremely weird . Like with femshep in Mass effect 2 where she run like her head is too heavy . Or in Mass Effect 3..where she run like she has been sitting on a horse all day . 

 

And in DA2 , when you don't move . Your hips hanging on one side..like someone kicked you in the spine ! Thats when I notice it . It won't stop me from enjoying the game...but it does make me wonder : Who made this and though 'Yeah....that look good *hit Enter*' . 

[Remmirath]

I think the problem is that it is an unrealistic version of 'feminine'. How many of the women in here walk/run like the 'feminine' animation? I certainly don't. It does make me wonder if they've ever really looked at how women walk or run - I mean look properly, at the mechanics of a walk, not just checking someone out.

I don't believe I have ever seen anyone walk like that, especially when just walking around normally. Certainly not if they think there might be a fight around the next corner, or hiking through uneven terrain, or anything that the character is likely to be doing. The animation makes it look like she might fall over at any second.

I also surely don't walk anything like that, and in fact even the women I know who I think would generally be considered quite "feminine" don't.
 

However, I have seen in other threads comments about how that certain walk or demeanor would possibly work for a mage or a rogue, but not a warrior. My issue is, when tearing down one stereotype, you're building up another.

The problem with this is that people with a significant amount of martial training tend to have that bleed over into their general movements, at least to some extent. Walking in that fashion is so strikingly martially unsound that I have a hard time looking at that and saying "that's a warrior". Mages don't have that problem at all, and rogues do to a lesser extent (personally I put rogues more in the warrior category there; I would expect them to move somewhat differently, but in a different way). One ought to keep a balanced position and keep the hips mostly level while moving in combat, and while I suppose you could have somebody who walks like the female Hawke does normally and then drops into a more appropriate way of moving every time they face combat, I find it unlikely. I tend to think that unlikely choices shouldn't be the default choice for a character when there is, in fact, no other choice.

I know plenty of people who have martial training and are also what one might say is fairly "girlie". They don't walk like that. I've no problem with "girlie" characters, and I think one should be able to express that in one's character, but (perhaps partly because I'm not at all that way myself, and because I very rarely play female characters who are) I don't think it should be something that's applied to every female character. That particular walk is jarring. It says to me that they don't really know what they're doing in a fight. That's not because I don't think that "feminine" people can fight well (certainly they can, and do), but because it runs against many pretty basic principles of keeping yourself ready for a fight. It's also inappropriate for climbing around mountains or walking through a swamp.
 

It seems you're saying that you can't be fierce, practical and no-nonsense and still be "feminine". To me, it's the same stereotype that a woman who has short hair, muscular arms, etc. equals "manly".

Yeah, that's annoying. This is why I prefer to avoid "feminine" and "masculine" at all. They're too loaded with various social baggage and stereotypes to have much of a use, to me. They've been rendered largely meaningless over the ages, and what little hasn't changed is potentially insulting and not consistent.
 

Instead of believing that strong women should walk, act, talk and think one way and vice versa, I like to subscribe to the belief that a woman can be whomever she is and still be whatever she wants, all with the expectation she shouldn't be judged or ridiculed.

Certainly! I think the game should give you plenty of opportunity to make those choices for your character. I, at least, am not judging the walk for being ridiculous in any situation (although it may've sounded that way -- sorry about that!). I'm saying it's ridiculous in a certain situation, that being the one that the character will spend much of their time in throughout the course of the game: a combat situation. That it also looks to me very much like someone who is martially untrained is another problem I have with it, but if it were to crop up only in the house, that wouldn't bother me as much (though I would still think that's a decision I should be making about my character).
 

Point being, I get that some people find the animation not to their taste. I definitely get that it should be uniform and stay the same in both cutscenes and in-game. I also understand that some people have a certain view of who they're roleplaying and want that view to be realized. I was just pointing out that when people use "masculine or manly" as an adjective to describe something out of their preference, people get really up in arms over it, yet it appears perfectly fine to use "overfeminine" etc, in the same fashion.

Yeah, that really shouldn't be the case. However, I will say that the male character's walk looks neutral and much more balanced and ready to me, and I'd prefer that for both. The male character's walk doesn't look exaggerated or out of place to me; the female character's walk does.

Unfortunately, a lot of what people think of as "masculine" behaviour equates to more military, martial, or practical behaviour, and a lot of what people think of a "feminine" equates to the opposite. I don't believe people would be best served by using those words to argue the point, however, as they're in fact fairly ill-defined words and are given to the impression of insult and stereotyping.

[KBomb]

I don't believe I have ever seen anyone walk like that, especially when just walking around normally. Certainly not if they think there might be a fight around the next corner, or hiking through uneven terrain, or anything that the character is likely to be doing. The animation makes it look like she might fall over at any second.

I also surely don't walk anything like that, and in fact even the women I know who I think would generally be considered quite "feminine" don't.


The problem with this is that people with a significant amount of martial training tend to have that bleed over into their general movements, at least to some extent. Walking in that fashion is so strikingly martially unsound that I have a hard time looking at that and saying "that's a warrior". Mages don't have that problem at all, and rogues do to a lesser extent (personally I put rogues more in the warrior category there; I would expect them to move somewhat differently, but in a different way). One ought to keep a balanced position and keep the hips mostly level while moving in combat, and while I suppose you could have somebody who walks like the female Hawke does normally and then drops into a more appropriate way of moving every time they face combat, I find it unlikely. I tend to think that unlikely choices shouldn't be the default choice for a character when there is, in fact, no other choice.

I know plenty of people who have martial training and are also what one might say is fairly "girlie". They don't walk like that. I've no problem with "girlie" characters, and I think one should be able to express that in one's character, but (perhaps partly because I'm not at all that way myself, and because I very rarely play female characters who are) I don't think it should be something that's applied to every female character. That particular walk is jarring. It says to me that they don't really know what they're doing in a fight. That's not because I don't think that "feminine" people can fight well (certainly they can, and do), but because it runs against many pretty basic principles of keeping yourself ready for a fight. It's also inappropriate for climbing around mountains or walking through a swamp.


Yeah, that's annoying. This is why I prefer to avoid "feminine" and "masculine" at all. They're too loaded with various social baggage and stereotypes to have much of a use, to me. They've been rendered largely meaningless over the ages, and what little hasn't changed is potentially insulting and not consistent.


Certainly! I think the game should give you plenty of opportunity to make those choices for your character. I, at least, am not judging the walk for being ridiculous in any situation (although it may've sounded that way -- sorry about that!). I'm saying it's ridiculous in a certain situation, that being the one that the character will spend much of their time in throughout the course of the game: a combat situation. That it also looks to me very much like someone who is martially untrained is another problem I have with it, but if it were to crop up only in the house, that wouldn't bother me as much (though I would still think that's a decision I should be making about my character).


Yeah, that really shouldn't be the case. However, I will say that the male character's walk looks neutral and much more balanced and ready to me, and I'd prefer that for both. The male character's walk doesn't look exaggerated or out of place to me; the female character's walk does.

Unfortunately, a lot of what people think of as "masculine" behaviour equates to more military, martial, or practical behaviour, and a lot of what people think of a "feminine" equates to the opposite. I don't believe people would be best served by using those words to argue the point, however, as they're in fact fairly ill-defined words and are given to the impression of insult and stereotyping.

I understand the point people are making, certainly. If I had to choose between the ME2 walk and this current walk, I would choose this one every single time. As I said before, I would love, love, love a neutral walk for every class, every sex and every race.

Btw, this is an excellent post full of great points. I wish I could give it more likes than just one.

[Little Princess Peach]

oh god is this a thing now?

Please tell me this is not a thing....

[SpiritMuse]

oh god is this a thing now?
Please tell me this is not a thing....

Yes. This is a thing. Deal with it.

[Panda]

I would rather take ME2's walk than what we currently have. My female characters would rather be akward and clumsy than have this supermodel walk. I think I will have very hard time tolerating my quizzys while walking and running around Thedas.

[KBomb]

I would rather take ME2's walk than what we currently have. My female characters would rather be akward and clumsy than have this supermodel walk. I think I will have very hard time tolerating my quizzys while walking and running around Thedas.

I would rather play as Heidi Klum herself than to suffer through ME2's animations again.

[Lieutenant Kurin]

I would rather take ME2's walk than what we currently have. My female characters would rather be akward and clumsy than have this supermodel walk. I think I will have very hard time tolerating my quizzys while walking and running around Thedas.

What I REALLY don't like is the standing animation of the human and the elf. It seems to default to having one foot behind the other. That's how you being a pirouette and the pose shouldn't even be possible in heavy armour. It's strange, and awkward. 

[KBomb]

What I REALLY don't like is the standing animation of the human and the elf. It seems to default to having one foot behind the other. That's how you being a pirouette and the pose shouldn't even be possible in heavy armour. It's strange, and awkward.

Plate armor was made to be very flexible. It was also made to be as light as possible, some weighed less than 40lbs and was built to distribute weight evenly. The person wearing it would have no trouble with keeping balance.

Also, soldiers wearing full plate armor wasn't that common. It was very expensive, so they wore chain mail or simply wore a plated cuirass. Either way, it wasn't that heavy and it allowed a pretty good range of motion, which was essential considering you had to quickly mount horses and have freedom of movement in battle.

I am not saying a person could do backflips and handstands, but they certainly would be able to stand like Cassandra or femHawke or femquis with ease.

[Panda]

I would rather play as Heidi Klum herself than to suffer through ME2's animations again.

 

If the animations aren't neutral they might fight against personality and character that player is creating. So having female characters so visibly feminine takes away  from players don't play feminine characters. Same goes other way for players who don't want their characters to seem akward/masculine etc. So I'd still prefer neutrality, same walk for male and female quizzy.

[Grieving Natashina]

I put this into similar thread, but I figured I'd toss it in here too:

 

Someone pointed out that being against these walk animations is being anti-feminine.  Er, no.  In the game, I don't want to look like I just got off a mechanical bull (my first impression of the lady Inquisitor with that walk,) nor do I wish Cassandra to have that "sexy" strut.  Anyone actually tried to walk like that?  It feels really awkward.  For fun, man or woman, try it sometime.  I showed that to my husband and he couldn't stop laughing.  He asked me if it hurt.

 

I want my warriors to walk like, well, Aveline.  Strong, purposeful, without an exaggerated sashay, and without looking like a damned gorilla (I was never able to finish my maleShep because of the gorilla stomp.)  Really, the better ways for me for my lady Inquisitor to express her femininity would be through things like fancy scrollwork or orientation on my armor; makeup and hair; different causal clothes.  The last of which the devs have stated they are looking into.

 

Let me show femininity/personal style in my Inquisitor's dress and clothing.  That stupid model strut looks out of place.  It's not impossible.  As one of the other posters pointed out (I think I tossed you a like,) plate armor was actually meant to be flexible and lighter weight as time went on.  It still wouldn't allow for that much freedom of hip movement.  In any case, it looks stupid.

 

Vivienne and Isabela having model struts made sense for their characters, not to mention wearing light chain/clothing (a lot of mage robes I've seen have got at least light chain mail under it) can allow for more freedom of movement.  In Vivienne's case, this is the one time where the model strut really suits the character.  Among other things, Life for her is a giant runway.  You only have one chance to make it look good.

 

Otherwise, such an animation looks just bad, silly and out of place.  I really hope those damned idle movements haven't returned.   Here's another experiment: Fire up DA2.  Roll a female character.  Then fire up youtube and check out the video where they put female Hawke's animations on a male Hawke.  To me, it doesn't matter the gender, they look equally stupid.   Then fire up youtube again and check out the video where they put male Hawke's animations on a female Hawke.  It looked a lot more natural, and the way a rather seasoned and (understandably) paranoid warrior should move.

[KBomb]

If the animations aren't neutral they might fight against personality and character that player is creating. So having female characters so visibly feminine takes away from players don't play feminine characters. Same goes other way for players who don't want their characters to seem akward/masculine etc. So I'd still prefer neutrality, same walk for male and female quizzy.

Yeah, I gotcha. You don't like anything too feminine. I would like to have neutral animations, as well. Yet, I would still prefer the current animations over ME2's. In my opinion, the walking, running and sitting animations were atrocious and I hope to never encounter them again. No matter my wishes for a neutral movement, I can at least tolerate the movements from DA2 and from what I have seen in DAI.

[Grieving Natashina]

I figured I'd put this in here too.  I couldn't find a video of a female Hawke (almost said Shep, oops) with the male animations, but I did find the mod that changes things around.  If anyone would like to try it out and record the results, please do so!  

 

http://www.nexusmods...ge2/mods/2572/?

 

Description:

 

Basically this mod swaps the female Hawke's usual movement animation to the male version. If you are like me and detest how the (future) Champion of Kirkwall waltzes around like she's about to break in half at any moment, then this mod is definitely for you. 

 

'Cause no one said you can't be sexy whilst still walking like a normal human being.

 

IMPORTANT: I recommend using the new main file, called female to male animation which completely overhauls the movement and idle animations of a female Hawke to get rid of that awkward pause when she stops and reverts to a generic female idle model. 

 

 

 

Yeah, I gotcha. You don't like anything too feminine. I would like to have neutral animations, as well. Yet, I would still prefer the current animations over ME2's. In my opinion, the walking, running and sitting animations were atrocious and I hope to never encounter them again. No matter my wishes for a neutral movement, I can at least tolerate the movements from DA2 and from what I have seen in DAI.

 

They've never said that...

[SpiritMuse]

If the animations aren't neutral they might fight against personality and character that player is creating. So having female characters so visibly feminine takes away  from players don't play feminine characters. Same goes other way for players who don't want their characters to seem akward/masculine etc. So I'd still prefer neutrality, same walk for male and female quizzy.

This. The way someone moves can say a lot about their personality, for women maybe even more so than men. For some women, like Isabela, it makes sense that they move and walk in a way that emphasizes showing off their body. For others, like Aveline, less so. And it grates, and limits the roleplaying, when we're forced to make characters who move like slinky sexpots whether that fits their character or not. I want to make a female Qunari who is decidedly unfeminine, but that likely won't be possible (except, it appears, in cutscenes).

[KBomb]

They've never said that...

I am having trouble with quoting at the moment, but it's on the page before this one. She/he said they kinda disliked anything too feminine. I wasn't using an insulting tone, as I see absolutely nothing wrong with it-- I said it as an affirmation that I understood what they were stating and the reasoning behind it.

[Grieving Natashina]

I am having trouble with quoting at the moment, but it's on the page before this one. She/he said they kinda disliked anything too feminine.

That doesn't mean they hate everything feminine though.  I've seen Panda state several times that femininity and "sexiness" is fine off of the battlefield, and that players should be free to choose what they wish.  

 

This walk is being forced upon us, and I don't like it either.  It's more like a parody of femininity and as someone that does like dressing up, it really just looks bad.  I know that I hate "girly" things, mainly because I'm sick of being told, "This is what sexy looks like!"

 

My thoughts to the mass media: You're high.  That doesn't look sexy, that looks sad.

[KBomb]

That doesn't mean they hate everything feminine though. I've seen Panda state several times that femininity and "sexiness" is fine off of the battlefield, and that players should be free to choose what they wish.

This walk is being forced upon us, and I don't like it either. It's more like a parody of femininity and as someone that does like dressing up, it really just looks bad. I know that I hate "girly" things, mainly because I'm sick of being told, "This is what sexy looks like!"

My thoughts to the mass media: You're high. That doesn't look sexy, that looks sad.

I added more to my reply before seeing this post.

I have said many times before I understand the point. My reply was in response to not wanting ME2 animations. Personally, I don't care who likes being "girlie" and who doesn't.

[Grieving Natashina]

I do care, because this goes into what mass media deems "sexy."  It goes into a deeper problem in video games, and yes, even smaller things like a walk animation come back down to it.  There is no need for these exaggerated struts, other than titillation.  Which, I've noticed, is making even the target audience for such titillation annoyed.

 

I'm not just speaking for me, but for some of the other ladies as well.  We shouldn't be forced to move that way, especially if we don't enjoy it.   If you agree with the point, then why have you been debating against it?  Or am I misinterpreting your words?

[KBomb]

I do care, because this goes into what mass media deems "sexy." It goes into a deeper problem in video games, and yes, even smaller things like a walk animation come back down to it. There is no need for these exaggerated struts, other than titillation. Which, I've noticed, is making even the target audience for such titillation annoyed.

I'm not just speaking for me, but for some of the other ladies as well. We shouldn't be forced to move that way, especially if we don't enjoy it. If you agree with the point, then why have you been debating against it? Or am I misinterpreting your words?

Never once have I said that anyone was "wrong" for not liking the animations nor have I really been debating. I have just been stating an opinion here and there. Many times I have said that I would prefer a neutral animation. I also said it should be consistent. I also said I didn't really mind a little sway.

No need to really drive your argument with me. My not liking ME2 animations is in no way demeaning your stance.

And speaking of misinterpreting words, when you say that you care whether or not someone is "girlie", are you being literal? Do you mean you care if people are girlie because by being so perpetrates the singular ideal of what is sexy? Or do you mean you care about how others view what girlie means? I ask because I am genuinely curious about that statement.

[Lord Bolton]

FemHawke with MaleHawke animations.

[Grieving Natashina]

@KBomb That's why I asked if I was misinterpreting you, and your answer is a yes.  I sincerely apologize for that.  

 

For what it's worth, although ME2 wasn't as bad as DA2, it was still awful.   I mean sure, it didn't look like Shep was about to throw her back out, but it was still bad.

 

 

 

FemHawke with MaleHawke animations.

Still surprises me how good and overall normal it looks.   To the DA team, is that really so much to ask for?

[SardaukarElite]

I find it strange in these sort of discussions that if someone says they find Cassandra too masculine for their taste, people pour out of the woodwork to point out masculinity is an "ideal" forced upon the masses by an ignorant and backward society and having such feelings only perpetrates the ideal that women should be a certain way. Yet, it's perfectly okay to point out that having a warrior that is too feminine is unrealistic, "silly" and beyond taste.

 

Though there is truth to what you say, there is also a problem in that what is called 'feminine' is often just a show put on for men with poor taste or a legacy of that.

 

I would love to see a strong girlie/feminine warrior, but that walk would not help.

 

 

Still surprises me how good and overall normal it looks. 

 

 

I'm not sure about the general walk, but Hawke looks terrible when lurching around in cutscenes.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

 

I'm not sure about the general walk, but Hawke looks terrible when lurching around in cutscenes.

Is that with the mod?  I honestly don't know, since I never played with it.

 

Edit: Or did you mean Male Hawke in general?  

[SardaukarElite]

Is that with the mod?  I honestly don't know, since I never played with it.

 

No in the original game, male animations are used in cutscenes.