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[Yggdrasil]

The only insight I can offer of Corypheus not being the main antagonist is that I seem to recall the devs mentioning that said antagonist has been sowing chaos to undermine stability for a long time (preceding events in DA2), and Corypheus only came back to himself in the second or third half of that game.  Unfortunately, I don't have any link to substantiate my recollection.

[Gtdef]

Corypheus can't be the Elder One. They will actually be mortal enemies.

 

The Elder One is the entity that protects the Golden City. Mages inevitably reach the Golden City and corrupt it. When this happens the Elder one comes and destroys the world, storing them in Demon form then scrubs the black of the city and the cycle continues.

[wtfman99]

While I do hope it is not corypheous as the big bad, I do remember the devs speaking of these events being worked on by the elder one for a while. I do kind of wonder if it's anyone/anything were aware of if its just going to be a new boss entirely we have never had any insight on.

I still feel like it's dumat, dragon art has been used in cover and recent promo stuff they've released, including the more evil looking dragon we've seen in the trailer. Makes me think dumat has returned or one of the old gods got free.

Remember that concept art, I think the tag liberal was "from their prisons, the old gods will call" I just feel like this is one of the few things the fans may not have looked at too closely

[TheRevanchist]

I'd also be disappointed.  They've previously hinted at Inquisition's plot involving visiting ancient ruins to find out more about the adversary.  To me, that sounds like something new (Or rather, something very very old) to us instead of rehashing Corypheus.  The buildup speaks to something more ominous than Corypheus.  I'm familiar with Fable lore, and while I don't particularly like the way its been utilized, I do enjoy the Corruption and the Court for what they are.  I don't think that's what the Elder One is, but its a cool concept.

 

The one thing I'm worried about is that Bioware might fall into a habit of sequel-one-upmanship, that they feel like they need to keep making the antagonist bigger and more powerful each game.  If they keep going up from the Elder One, that could get silly real fast.

 

I was not suggesting Fable was of high quality of course. It is a series of totally wasted potential. But indeed I feel they are hinting at something else here, something much bigger than a corrupted Tevinter Magister. 

[TheRevanchist]

Corypheus can't be the Elder One. They will actually be mortal enemies.

 

The Elder One is the entity that protects the Golden City. Mages inevitably reach the Golden City and corrupt it. When this happens the Elder one comes and destroys the world, storing them in Demon form then scrubs the black of the city and the cycle continues.

 

The mages did not corrupt the City. "The Golden City" is a fairy tale. It was already Black.

[TheRevanchist]

Also how exactly does Corypheus "Control" the Wardens? He did not control Larius, who desired his Death from the beginning. Nor does he control the other 3 Wardens with Janeka, because if you side with her first, they join Larius, and then if you change your mind, he sends them off, before you summon Him, telling them to warn the Order about Corypheus, to run all the way to the Anderfells if they have to. He was clearly not under any control. He recognized him as a threat, and sent those men on ahead, to warn everyone.

 

Sure, he took over Anders, but Anders is not exactly the most stable of individuals. using him as an example is a bit dumb, because he cant even control himself, really. Even Janeka, realizing he can't be controlled tells you he has to be destroyed. These are not actions of people who are being mind controlled imo.

 

Legacy offered no evidence that convinces me that Corypheus can control ALL of the Grey Wardens.  

[Gtdef]

The mages did not corrupt the City. "The Golden City" is a fairy tale. It was already Black.

 

Something corrupted the city. The Golden city existed, it was the reason Corypheus struck a deal with Dumat. What happened then is sketchy and sounds plotholey considering that mages can go for a nap and check the colour of the city in the distance.

[TheRevanchist]

Something corrupted the city. The Golden city existed, it was the reason Corypheus struck a deal with Dumat. What happened then is sketchy and sounds plotholey considering that mages can go for a nap and check the colour of the city in the distance.

 

There is no proof the city was ever Golden. Corypheus strongly implies they had no idea prior to arriving. "It was suppose to be Golden!" Dumat might have lied, or did not know himself the truth of it. Regardless the facts remain unchanged. There is no evidence that "The Golden City" ever existed.

[azarhal]

Also how exactly does Corypheus "Control" the Wardens? He did not control Larius, who desired his Death from the beginning. Nor does he control the other 3 Wardens with Janeka, because if you side with her first, they join Larius, and then if you change your mind, he sends them off, before you summon Him, telling them to warn the Order about Corypheus, to run all the way to the Anderfells if they have to. He was clearly not under any control. He recognized him as a threat, and sent those men on ahead, to warn everyone.

 

Sure, he took over Anders, but Anders is not exactly the most stable of individuals. using him as an example is a bit dumb, because he cant even control himself, really. Even Janeka, realizing he can't be controlled tells you he has to be destroyed. These are not actions of people who are being mind controlled imo.

 

Legacy offered no evidence that convinces me that Corypheus can control ALL of the Grey Wardens.  

 

What I understood of Legacy is that Corypheus had a similar power to an Archdemon and tainted creatures/people can hear him "talk" when he is near.

[AresKeith]

Also how exactly does Corypheus "Control" the Wardens? He did not control Larius, who desired his Death from the beginning. Nor does he control the other 3 Wardens with Janeka, because if you side with her first, they join Larius, and then if you change your mind, he sends them off, before you summon Him, telling them to warn the Order about Corypheus, to run all the way to the Anderfells if they have to. He was clearly not under any control. He recognized him as a threat, and sent those men on ahead, to warn everyone.

 

Sure, he took over Anders, but Anders is not exactly the most stable of individuals. using him as an example is a bit dumb, because he cant even control himself, really. Even Janeka, realizing he can't be controlled tells you he has to be destroyed. These are not actions of people who are being mind controlled imo.

 

Legacy offered no evidence that convinces me that Corypheus can control ALL of the Grey Wardens.  

 

 

What I understood of Legacy is that Corypheus had a similar power to an Archdemon and tainted creatures/people can hear him "talk" when he is near.

 

^ This, and that was when he was sleeping. Now he's fully awake and probably gained his full power again

[TheRevanchist]

What I understood of Legacy is that Corypheus had a similar power to an Archdemon and tainted creatures/people can hear him "talk" when he is near.

 

Yes, it was clear he also emits "The Song". This however, has never resulted in Grey Wardens becoming pawns to the Darkspawn. Otherwise Archdemons would never be killed would they? The Song can draw them to him, sure. But even when directly in his presence, they showed no signs of being "controlled" by him. If he controls the Grey Wardens in Inquisition, I am personally going to call bulls*** on it. Because the Wardens in Legacy were NOT being controlled. They were LURED, yes. But being drawn to something, is not nearly the same, as being controlled.

[wtfman99]

Yes, it was clear he also emits "The Song". This however, has never resulted in Grey Wardens becoming pawns to the Darkspawn. Otherwise Archdemons would never be killed would they? The Song can draw them to him, sure. But even when directly in his presence, they showed no signs of being "controlled" by him. If he controls the Grey Wardens in Inquisition, I am personally going to call bulls*** on it. Because the Wardens in Legacy were NOT being controlled. They were LURED, yes. But being drawn to something, is not nearly the same, as being controlled.

He did have influence over people, grey wardens and more so Mage grey wardens. They were compelled to free him if kept around him too long I remember a journal entry saying, plus they would forget about it after

[Gtdef]

There is no proof the city was ever Golden. Corypheus strongly implies they had no idea prior to arriving. "It was suppose to be Golden!" Dumat might have lied, or did not know himself the truth of it. Regardless the facts remain unchanged. There is no evidence that "The Golden City" ever existed.

 

He implies no such thing. To observe the city is as easy as closing your eyes and taking a nap. If it was supposed to be golden it means that they saw it as golden. The only alternative is that the golden color was an illusion and the implications of this are huge.

[TheRevanchist]

He did have influence over people, grey wardens and more so Mage grey wardens. They were compelled to free him if kept around him too long I remember a journal entry saying, plus they would forget about it after

 

Yes extended exposure led to odd behavior. But once removed from his direct presence they regained their wits, as if nothing ever happened. He cannot possibly have control over the entire Order. Larius was down there for how long now? And still was not under his control? he is a good example of why this theory is nonsense.

[TheRevanchist]

He implies no such thing. To observe the city is as easy as closing your eyes and taking a nap. If it was supposed to be golden it means that they saw it as golden. The only alternative is that the golden color was an illusion and the implications of this are huge.

 

No, if it was an illusion, there is no reason for that illusion to NOT be maintained afterwards. Bioware chooses their words very carefully with dialogue. If the matter was as simple as closing your eyes and dreaming, He would have said something like. "I saw it, in my dreams! It was Golden!" he never once implies he ever saw it as Golden beforehand, he says only that it was "suppose to be". Do not assume the City was always visible in the Fade. Just because it is now, does not mean that is how it's always been. 

[wtfman99]

Yes extended exposure led to odd behavior. But once removed from his direct presence they regained their wits, as if nothing ever happened. He cannot possibly have control over the entire Order. Larius was down there for how long now? And still was not under his control? he is a good example of why this theory is nonsense.

I don't think its necessarily nonsense but I don't think he could "control" a whole order. More likely he caused a lot of turmoil from the inside, he could directly control people with blood magic though, he is a powerful mage

[TheRevanchist]

I don't think its necessarily nonsense but I don't think he could "control" a whole order. More likely he caused a lot of turmoil from the inside, he could directly control people with blood magic though, he is a powerful mage

 

Perhaps, but to take over the entire Order in Orlais? I still have to call BS. Yet I cannot imagine why else we would be attacking the Grey Warden's fortress. 

[X Equestris]

There is no proof the city was ever Golden. Corypheus strongly implies they had no idea prior to arriving. "It was suppose to be Golden!" Dumat might have lied, or did not know himself the truth of it. Regardless the facts remain unchanged. There is no evidence that "The Golden City" ever existed.

I believe that it was stated that the City appeared golden, at least on the outside, before the Magisters entered it. Whether it was black on the inside or not is open for debate right now.

[wtfman99]

Perhaps, but to take over the entire Order in Orlais? I still have to call BS. Yet I cannot imagine why else we would be attacking the Grey Warden's fortress.

I don't think he can control a whole order simontaneously. I don't know if you read last flight but a Mage in that was really struggling to control 3-4 subjects with blood magic and resisting demons.

Corypheous is much more powerful and I doubt he has the worry of demons calling to him but at some point he'll be at his limit too. Distance plays a factor with the blood magic too I am sure.

Plus how does he over come the handicap of being in larius's body if you gave him that?
I'm just as intrigued as you are about all of this. Questions will become answers shortly

[TheRevanchist]

I believe that it was stated that the City appeared golden, at least on the outside, before the Magisters entered it. Whether it was black on the inside or not is open for debate right now.

 

The City was Black already, The Magisters did not corrupt it. This cannot be debated. I have never found a reference that implies the City ever "appeared" Golden. if such a thing exists, feel free to provide it.

[Heimdall]

I believe that it was stated that the City appeared golden, at least on the outside, before the Magisters entered it. Whether it was black on the inside or not is open for debate right now.

Corypheus is rather vague on the subject.  The closest he gets is: "The light.  We sought the golden light.  You offered... the power of the gods themselves.  But it was... black... corrupt.  Darkness... ever since.  How long?"

 

He makes no mention of any city or make any definite statements about what is might have looked like before or after.

[Heimdall]

The City was Black already, The Magisters did not corrupt it. This cannot be debated. I have never found a reference that implies the City ever "appeared" Golden. if such a thing exists, feel free to provide it.

The accounts of the Chantry say so.  There's no account contradicting them.

[X Equestris]

Corypheus is rather vague on the subject.  The closest he gets is: "The light.  We sought the golden light.  You offered... the power of the gods themselves.  But it was... black... corrupt.  Darkness... ever since.  How long?"
 
He makes no mention of any city or make any definite statements about what is might have looked like before or after.

That dialogue has always been rather interesting, since it can be taken multiple ways. It could refer to the power of the gods, or the light, or the city itself.

The City was Black already, The Magisters did not corrupt it. This cannot be debated. I have never found a reference that implies the City ever "appeared" Golden. if such a thing exists, feel free to provide it.

You can see the Black City from anywhere in the Fade, so it stands to reason that it could be seen before the Magisters ventured there. You would think that if it had been visibly black prior to that point, no one would have noticed any change.

[Gtdef]

Wiki says that the Ancient Tevinters believed the Golden City was the seat of their gods. I haven't found any other source on this though.

Corypheus may not say the words "golden city" but says that they sought the golden light. Obviously there was something visible which is no more. Something changed. The chances are that the magisters didn't corrupt it (knowingly at least) but they actually misunderstood it's purpose due to deception.

 

What makes the most sense to me is that Dumat knew exactly what will happen when the Magisters reached that place and planned on it.

[wtfman99]

Wiki says that the Ancient Tevinters believed the Golden City was the seat of their gods. I haven't found any other source on this though.
Corypheus may not say the words "golden city" but says that they sought the golden light. Obviously there was something visible which is no more. Something changed. The chances are that the magisters didn't corrupt it (knowingly at least) but they actually misunderstood it's purpose due to deception.
 
What makes the most sense to me is that Dumat knew exactly what will happen when the Magisters reached that place and planned on it.

Was his plan to have dark spawn free him from his underground prison? Hard to say but there's no way that dragon can not be dumat or an old God to me