126 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

How did Harbinger even begin to attempt to harvest an apex race like the Leviathans, when they can so easily destroy him?

This is confused -- or rather, it's a problem created by your own theory. In the standard literalist interpretation Harbinger didn't yet exist when the Leviathans were harvested. He was made out of Leviathans himself; he's the first "true Reaper."

*sigh*  The possibilities of so much more are staring us right in the face, and all of it is built upon things found right inside the game.  It's not like these theories are that far fetched.  Even the IT isn't that far fetched.  The BoLT... well... it's a little far fetched as there is so little known about those in general.  Nothing I am saying is "out of this world unbelievable."  Seriously... how hard would it be for Bioware to say sometime during ME4, "Oh yeah... the Leviathans were lying.  Why would you even believe a symbolic Cthulu in the first place?  They are the emodiment of evil."  It is totally within the realm of reasonable possibility.  At least... it's more reasonable than accepting "space magic."

Sure, that would work for people who have already drunk the IT Kool-Aid, or like this new flavor you've invented. IT is not nearly as popular as its believers think it is.

[AlanC9]

But you aren't refuting anything I've said.  So what if processing ships did the harvesting.  Does that have anything to do with anything I've said?

Actually, it kinda does, unless you've revised what you've said earlier about indoctrination being vital to the harvest. We've got plenty of evidence of non-indoctrinated people being harvested all the time, starting with ME2. Unless all that is some sort of deception too? But that just takes us down the rabbit-hole Obadiah mentioned. The standard knock on IT and related theories is that discussing them is pointless, since any contradictory evidence can just be handwaved away as more deception.
 

So what if it's head cannon?  Really... so what?  Are you so emotionally imbalanced that you can't deal with other people having fun with a concept?  Are you the fun police?  Who made you sheriff?  Get off this elevator.

What's the problem here? Psychevore thinks your theory is ridiculous? Well, if you don't want people to tell you what they think of your theory, why are you posting it in a public forum?

[Raice]

This is confused -- or rather, it's a problem created by your own theory. In the standard literalist interpretation Harbinger didn't yet exist when the Leviathans were harvested. He was made out of Leviathans himself; he's the first "true Reaper."



Sure, that would work for people who have already drunk the IT Kool-Aid, or like this new flavor you've invented. IT is not nearly as popular as its believers think it is.

 

I don't know how else to interpret what Catalyst and Leviathan said.  They said that Catalyst built a Reaper to be the solution to the chaos.  It was the first.  It's name was Harbinger.  Over time, it evolved and studied civilizations and thought of harvesting.  It started with the Leviathans.  How else am I supposed to interpret this?

 

It doesn't have to be popular.  This isn't a contest.  They're just thoughts.  Why do you guys harbor so much hate toward this stuff?

[Raice]

Actually, it kinda does, unless you've revised what you've said earlier about indoctrination being vital to the harvest. We've got plenty of evidence of non-indoctrinated people being harvested all the time, starting with ME2. Unless all that is some sort of deception too? But that just takes us down the rabbit-hole Obadiah mentioned. The standard knock on IT and related theories is that discussing them is pointless, since any contradictory evidence can just be handwaved away as more deception.
 

What's the problem here? Psychevore thinks your theory is ridiculous? Well, if you don't want people to tell you what they think of your theory, why are you posting it in a public forum?

 

I think the situation between me and Psychevore can be handled between me and Psychevore.  I'm all for having pleasant discussions.  When things become less pleasant, I meet them in kind.

 

And no... unless he can explain it plainly and civilly, I don't see how anything he brought up refutes what I said.  Calling something ridiculous doesn't mean it is ridiculous.  You have to actually provide some sort of reasoning behind it.  If I can't answer for what is brought up, then I would probably say, "Sure... it is ridiculous."  Currently, "pawns actually did the harvesting of Leviathan" doesn't matter... because "harvesting" never actually took place.

[AlanC9]

I don't know how else to interpret what Catalyst and Leviathan said.  They said that Catalyst built a Reaper to be the solution to the chaos.  Over time, it evolved and studied civilizations and thought of harvesting.  It started with the Leviathans.  How else am I supposed to interpret this?

You've got the sequence completely wrong.

It doesn't have to be popular.  This isn't a contest.  They're just thoughts.  Why do you guys harbor so much hate toward this stuff?

Why do you care if we hate it?

[AlanC9]

And no... unless he can explain it plainly and civilly, I don't see how anything he brought up refutes what I said.  Calling something ridiculous doesn't mean it is ridiculous.  You have to actually provide some sort of reasoning behind it.  If I can't answer for what is brought up, then I would probably say, "Sure... it is ridiculous."  Currently, "pawns actually did the harvesting of Leviathan" doesn't matter... because "harvesting" never actually took place.

Right ... I keep forgetting that you're using a definition of harvesting that has nothing to do with a normal interpretation of the game. So you're basically declaring that the real harvest has nothing to do with the harvesting that we actually see in the game, right? It's some sort of mystical thing that only happens offstage and can't be demonstrated or actually explained. (What's happening in ME2, then? What are the processing ships doing if they're not harvesting?)

I asked upthread if this theory is supposed to be just a pure intellectual exercise, or if it's supposed to actually be true. I'm still not sure about that.

As for you and Psychevore -- still a public forum. If you want to discuss a matter in public, I get to talk about it too. 

[Farangbaa]

I don't know how else to interpret what Catalyst and Leviathan said.  They said that Catalyst built a Reaper to be the solution to the chaos.  It was the first.  It's name was Harbinger.  Over time, it evolved and studied civilizations and thought of harvesting.  It started with the Leviathans.  How else am I supposed to interpret this?

 

It doesn't have to be popular.  This isn't a contest.  They're just thoughts.  Why do you guys harbor so much hate toward this stuff?

 

Maybe you should learn to pay attention while playing the game? Because this is not in the game.

 

That Catalyst studied civilizations and then it started the harvests, creating Harbinger.

 

And again, the Reapers don't harvest, their processing ships do, which are not sentient nor sapient, they're just processing machines, making it completely unnecessary for the Reapers to exist for the first harvest to happen.

 

But of course you're going to hand wave everything away by saying it's all a lie. Which is exactly like IT. Something you don't like? INDOCTRINATION!! Something you can't explain? INDOCTRINATION.

 

IT is just a god of the gaps, which you cannot argue against, because everything with even a remote difficulty to explain can be handwaved by entering the god into the gaps.

 

And stop your whining about my civility: you're questioning my mental faculties at every turn.

[Raice]

Right ... I keep forgetting that you're using a definition of harvesting that has nothing to do with a normal interpretation of the game. So you're basically declaring that the real harvest has nothing to do with the harvesting that we actually see in the game, right? It's some sort of mystical thing that only happens offstage and can't be demonstrated or actually explained. (What's happening in ME2, then? What are the processing ships doing if they're not harvesting?)

I asked upthread if this theory is supposed to be just a pure intellectual exercise, or if it's supposed to actually be true. I'm still not sure about that.

As for you and Psychevore -- still a public forum. If you want to discuss a matter in public, I get to talk about it too. 

 

Apparently you don't understand.  You keep trying to correct me on how things were actually harvested, and the process therein, who made what and how... and I'm telling you, none of it matters, because no harvesting ever happened in the first place.  I never said it was some mystical thing.  I said it never happened in the first place.  There aren't a million lies.  There's just two - Leviathan and Catalyst.  The lie doesn't change events.  It merely changes the perspective of events.

 

I don't remember seeing any processor ships, and quite frankly... I don't remember seeing a single moment when Reaper harvesting even actually takes place.  If you can show me some video footage or direct me to a point in the game where we actively see one doing something like you describe, I would be happy to review that material and update my in-progress theory.  I'm not above making mistakes.

 

I missed your question about whether or not this is an intellectual exercise or if it's true.  I apologize.  In response to your question: what part of "This is just for fun." do you not understand?  I see that you're keeping up with the conversation between Psychevore and myself - so you shouldn't have missed the part when I told him that.

 

Obviously, none of this is true.  I'm not trying to convince you of anything.  It's just for fun.  Try to keep it that way, and you and I won't have to elevate this to an unfriendly conversation any further than it already has.

[Raice]

You've got the sequence completely wrong.


Why do you care if we hate it?

 

I don't care if you hate it.  I care that you're being a dick.

[Raice]

Maybe you should learn to pay attention while playing the game? Because this is not in the game.

 

That Catalyst studied civilizations and then it started the harvests, creating Harbinger.

 

And again, the Reapers don't harvest, their processing ships do, which are not sentient nor sapient, they're just processing machines, making it completely unnecessary for the Reapers to exist for the first harvest to happen.

 

But of course you're going to hand wave everything away by saying it's all a lie. Which is exactly like IT. Something you don't like? INDOCTRINATION!! Something you can't explain? INDOCTRINATION.

 

IT is just a god of the gaps, which you cannot argue against, because everything with even a remote difficulty to explain can be handwaved by entering the god into the gaps.

 

And stop your whining about my civility: you're questioning my mental faculties at every turn.

 

I reviewed the Leviathan conversation, and you are correct - the Catalyst was the one that studied the civilizations, and then they were harvested, and then Catalyst built the Reaper.  My mistake on the order of things.

 

Still, it doesn't matter, because it's a lie.  Harvesting never happened.  This isn't a new "lie" I just thought up to cover up your point.  This is the same lie I spoke about in the original post.  There's only 2 lies - the one told by Leviathan and the one told by Catalyst which affirms it.

 

We don't see any harvesting taking place in the games - unless there's some other DLC I don't know about.  We also never see a processing ship actually doing any processing.  So there's no reason to believe they exist.  And even if they did - it wouldn't matter... because,again, harvesting never takes place.

 

This isn't handwaving.  You keep bringing up things about "harvesting" like they matter in this synopsis.  Sovereign said it in ME 1 - he is the vanguard of our destruction.  There never was any harvesting planned.

 

Indoctrination theory goes into a lot of different tangents.  This is why I said I only mostly agree with it - but not completely.  I don't know exactly when it starts, but really, everything going on from the point Shepard appears on the Citadel is suspect.  Really, not even the Leviathan DLC disproves it for me.  If anything, it just seems like a hack job of a plot hole cover up.

 

I don't remember questioning your mental faculties.  I was abrasive with you, most certainly, as you were abrasive with me.  All I ever said to you was that you don't have to like it, and you don't have to agree with it, or participate in it.  And I reminded you that whatever you were going to do... you weren't going to stop others from having fun with it.  And you won't.  You have no right.  So keep your bad attitude out of it, and we can go back to being friendly - like I have been with everyone else who has been friendly with me.

 

Again, this is just for fun.  You trying to pluck holes in it with a bad attitude and aggressively responding to me like you take this whole thing as a personal insult is not going to work.  You play nice - I play nice.  It's that simple.

[Vazgen]

We don't see any harvesting taking place in the games - unless there's some other DLC I don't know about.  We also never see a processing ship actually doing any processing.  So there's no reason to believe they exist.  And even if they did - it wouldn't matter... because,again, harvesting never takes place.

Uhm, what about derp Reaper then?

Spoiler

[Raice]

Uhm, what about derp Reaper then?

Spoiler

 

Ah... the Human Reaper.

 

It's a lie!

 

Heh... I'm kidding.  This is a strange thing indeed.  However... this isn't a Reaper made Reaper.  It's a Collector made Reaper.  Collectors will be destroyed just like everything else.  Fair enough, it is made of "processed" humans.  So, in some respects, it could be used to establish a basis for the act of "harvest."

 

However, we don't see these humans being used to preserve life - so it still doesn't support the "harvest" notion on general basis.  No, the humans are used to act as some kind of blood stream for this machine that is hell-bent on destroying Shepard.  Plus, we don't actually see it harvesting anything either - just more killing.

 

Honestly, this thing is just silly.  Apparently, EDI suggested that Reapers took on the form of the species that was harvested.  Well... I guess all the species in past cycles looked like Leviathan, I mean Cthulu, because that's what every other Reaper looks like.  So... my contention is that this entire story-line isn't very cohesive with anything in the main story anyway.  I suppose that before ME3 came out, it maybe sort of did.  But then it still didn't, because we had that huge end-game shot of all those Reapers... that looked exactly the same.

 

ME2's plot just didn't make any sense, even in the established cannon.  So, I don't know what to make of it, except that all we see it do is more killing.  I suppose it's reason enough to adjust my theory in some regards, though.  So... I suppose they "harvest" for fuel.  That's what the "processor ships" do.

 

So much for preserving life.  Seriously... the more I think about it the more it becomes apparent that these Reapers really don't have any interesting in anything other than killing.

[Vazgen]

Ah... the Human Reaper.

 

It's a lie!

 

Heh... I'm kidding.  This is a strange thing indeed.  However... this isn't a Reaper made Reaper.  It's a Collector made Reaper.  Collectors will be destroyed just like everything else.  Fair enough, it is made of "processed" humans.  So, in some respects, it could be used to establish a basis for the act of "harvest."

 

However, we don't see these humans being used to preserve life - so it still doesn't support the "harvest" notion on general basis.  No, the humans are used to act as some kind of blood stream for this machine that is hell-bent on destroying Shepard.  Plus, we don't actually see it harvesting anything either - just more killing.

 

Honestly, this thing is just silly.  Apparently, EDI suggested that Reapers took on the form of the species that was harvested.  Well... I guess all the species in past cycles looked like Leviathan, I mean Cthulu, because that's what every other Reaper looks like.  So... my contention is that this entire story-line isn't very cohesive with anything in the main story anyway.  I suppose that before ME3 came out, it maybe sort of did.  But then it still didn't, because we had that huge end-game shot of all those Reapers... that looked exactly the same.

 

ME2's plot just didn't make any sense, even in the established cannon.  So, I don't know what to make of it, except that all we see it do is more killing.  I suppose it's reason enough to adjust my theory in some regards, though.  So... I suppose they "harvest" for fuel.  There - that about explains that as far as I'm concerned.  And... it even makes sense in the story.

ME2 Reaper was incomplete. My guess is that there would've been a Reaper shell built around the human-like core once it's done. 

As for preserving life, we first need to determine what is considered "preserving". It can be saving the genetic material, memories and society (Thorian) or Arc-style preservation. We deal with a crazy AI, who knows what it considers "preserving".

[Raice]

ME2 Reaper was incomplete. My guess is that there would've been a Reaper shell built around the human-like core once it's done. 

As for preserving life, we first need to determine what is considered "preserving". It can be saving the genetic material, memories and society (Thorian) or Arc-style preservation. We deal with a crazy AI, who knows what it considers "preserving".

 

You got me, man.  This sort of play on words is the only reason why these theories are possible in the first place.  They aren't defined very well, which is sort of the problem with the ending in ME3.  So much is just blindly stated without further option to explore further.

[Vazgen]

I always thought they collect the genetic material to build a Reaper and then it analyzes the data and transfers all the information into a central database. It would be inefficient risking losing all information on any specific race if a Reaper is destroyed. It also doesn't contribute to the solution. Information that is not possible to get from genetic material is collected via indoctrination and goes straight to the central database.

[Raice]

I always thought they collect the genetic material to build a Reaper and then it analyzes the data and transfers all the information into a central database. It would be inefficient risking losing all information on any specific race if a Reaper is destroyed. It also doesn't contribute to the solution. Information that is not possible to get from genetic material is collected via indoctrination and goes straight to the central database.

 

Well, apparently, Catalyst was the central database.  But again - we don't really have any information whatsoever about this process of harvesting.  Like... there is literally no information - at least none that I can find.  It's like they just say it happens, and then it's just left for us to accept it without question.

 

Also... isn't harvesting the way we're made to understand it just another way of saying "synthesis"... without the mass destruction?

[Farangbaa]

Well, apparently, Catalyst was the central database.  But again - we don't really have any information whatsoever about this process of harvesting.  Like... there is literally no information - at least none that I can find.  It's like they just say it happens, and then it's just left for us to accept it without question.

 

Also... isn't harvesting the way we're made to understand it just another way of saying "synthesis"... without the mass destruction?

 

Again.

 

Read the codex.

 

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper

http://masseffect.wi...dex/The_Reapers
 

Harvesting

Even with all the Reapers' power, harvesting every sapient species in an entire galaxy can take decades or even centuries. The most time-consuming part of the process is gathering DNA from the population. To accelerate the effort, the Reapers follow a consistent procedure.

Victims who cooperate, surrender, or are captured by husks are sorted into camps. It is believed the husks possess receptors that allow them to analyze a victim's DNA through sight, smell, or touch. Victims that meet their standards are herded from the camps into processor ships. Those the husks deem insufficient are either turned into husks themselves or indoctrinated to serve as slave labor. The Reapers use this last option to give their victims false hope -- many captives who would otherwise fight back become docile when they see members of their own kind obey and survive.

The processor ships reduce victims to a transportable liquid. Like in a slaughterhouse, the ships' design prevents victims from seeing or hearing what happens elsewhere so that they do not panic. The victims are ushered into locking pods, then rent apart and dissolved into paste that is flushed to storage vats.

The rate of killing is phenomenal. Intelligence estimates suggest there are more than 400 processor ships on Earth, killing approximately 1.86 million humans per day. In combination with battlefield deaths, disease, and famine, this pace will result in the complete depopulation of Earth within a decade. As the husks and indoctrinated slaves build more slaughtering facilities, the kill rate can only increase.

And before you say this is an external source: these are direct copies of the Codex in the game.

And to be complete:

 

The Citadel races have classified the known variants of Reapers into four types:

* CAPITAL SHIPS are Sovereign-class Reapers two kilometers in length. They typically target the dreadnoughts, defense installations, and industrial cities of organic civilizations. Experts believe the Reapers harvest a single species of organics during each cycle of extinction to create these massive ships. Some capital ships are capable of launching small drones equivalent to fighters.

* DESTROYERS are 160 meters long and, in astounding numbers, make up the bulk of the Reaper fleet. They engage cruisers and other, smaller ships, as well as communications posts and enemy command centers. Research suggests destroyers are created from those species that are not harvested to make capital ships.

* TROOP TRANSPORTS carry husks to unconquered planets and bring victims of the harvest to Reaper processing centers. They vary in length from 200 meters to one kilometer, but, unlike capital ships and destroyers, do not appear to be self-aware. Instead, other Reapers operate troop transports remotely.

* PROCESSORS, also called "slaughter ships," are mobile centers for mass DNA harvesting. Like troop transports, processors appear to be remotely operated by sapient Reapers.

[Vazgen]

Well, apparently, Catalyst was the central database.  But again - we don't really have any information whatsoever about this process of harvesting.  Like... there is literally no information - at least none that I can find.  It's like they just say it happens, and then it's just left for us to accept it without question.

 

Also... isn't harvesting the way we're made to understand it just another way of saying "synthesis"... without the mass destruction?

Well, the Catalyst presents Synthesis as a previously impossible solution, only made available via Crucible. It's a crude solution, one that is certainly preferable for an AI without any moral principles. Made organics and synthetics one to eliminate the whole problem. If those new creatures create synthetics it will be out of the Catalyst's programming scope. 

I like that there is almost no information on the Reapers. It makes it easier to fill the gaps by yourself while staying true to the lore Do you have experience with TES lore? It's much worse, not only there is almost no information on certain subjects, but there are also contradicting sources.

[Farangbaa]

You're just too funny.  You should become an out of work comedian when you grow up.

 

No, you are funny. You blatantly disregard lore in the game to make your headcanon work: denying the processor ships, denying the harvest, pretty much denying everything so you can spin up your own little fantasy of what happened.

[Raice]

Again.

 

Read the codex.

 

http://masseffect.wi...com/wiki/Reaper

http://masseffect.wi...dex/The_Reapers
 

Harvesting

Even with all the Reapers' power, harvesting every sapient species in an entire galaxy can take decades or even centuries. The most time-consuming part of the process is gathering DNA from the population. To accelerate the effort, the Reapers follow a consistent procedure.

Victims who cooperate, surrender, or are captured by husks are sorted into camps. It is believed the husks possess receptors that allow them to analyze a victim's DNA through sight, smell, or touch. Victims that meet their standards are herded from the camps into processor ships. Those the husks deem insufficient are either turned into husks themselves or indoctrinated to serve as slave labor. The Reapers use this last option to give their victims false hope -- many captives who would otherwise fight back become docile when they see members of their own kind obey and survive.

The processor ships reduce victims to a transportable liquid. Like in a slaughterhouse, the ships' design prevents victims from seeing or hearing what happens elsewhere so that they do not panic. The victims are ushered into locking pods, then rent apart and dissolved into paste that is flushed to storage vats.

The rate of killing is phenomenal. Intelligence estimates suggest there are more than 400 processor ships on Earth, killing approximately 1.86 million humans per day. In combination with battlefield deaths, disease, and famine, this pace will result in the complete depopulation of Earth within a decade. As the husks and indoctrinated slaves build more slaughtering facilities, the kill rate can only increase.

And before you say this is an external source: these are direct copies of the Codex in the game.

And to be complete:

 

The Citadel races have classified the known variants of Reapers into four types:

* CAPITAL SHIPS are Sovereign-class Reapers two kilometers in length. They typically target the dreadnoughts, defense installations, and industrial cities of organic civilizations. Experts believe the Reapers harvest a single species of organics during each cycle of extinction to create these massive ships. Some capital ships are capable of launching small drones equivalent to fighters.

* DESTROYERS are 160 meters long and, in astounding numbers, make up the bulk of the Reaper fleet. They engage cruisers and other, smaller ships, as well as communications posts and enemy command centers. Research suggests destroyers are created from those species that are not harvested to make capital ships.

* TROOP TRANSPORTS carry husks to unconquered planets and bring victims of the harvest to Reaper processing centers. They vary in length from 200 meters to one kilometer, but, unlike capital ships and destroyers, do not appear to be self-aware. Instead, other Reapers operate troop transports remotely.

* PROCESSORS, also called "slaughter ships," are mobile centers for mass DNA harvesting. Like troop transports, processors appear to be remotely operated by sapient Reapers.

 

Right, because "slaughter ship" is what "preserving life" is all about.

[AlanC9]

I don't remember seeing any processor ships, and quite frankly... I don't remember seeing a single moment when Reaper harvesting even actually takes place.  If you can show me some video footage or direct me to a point in the game where we actively see one doing something like you describe, I would be happy to review that material and update my in-progress theory.  I'm not above making mistakes.

You're saying the Codex entries are fakes? Let me guess -- the intel comes from indoctrinated people, right? What about the processing of the colonists and Normandy crew in ME2? EDI also has a conversation about people awaiting processing. Is she indoctrinated too?
 

I missed your question about whether or not this is an intellectual exercise or if it's true.  I apologize.  In response to your question: what part of "This is just for fun." do you not understand?  I see that you're keeping up with the conversation between Psychevore and myself - so you shouldn't have missed the part when I told him that.

OK. It's just for fun. I'm having fun, so it's working. I was only asking because I was curious about how serious the idea was, not because I would treat the idea any differently. (Although obviously a contention that Bio actually intended this nonsense would result in some different arguments.)

Just because an idea's just being put up for fun doesn't immunize it from criticism.

[AlanC9]

Do you have experience with TES lore? It's much worse, not only there is almost no information on certain subjects, but there are also contradicting sources.

Let's turn this thread into a discussion of how Nerevar died.

[Raice]

You're saying the Codex entries are fakes? Let me guess -- the intel comes from indoctrinated people, right? What about the processing of the colonists and Normandy crew in ME2? EDI also has a conversation about people awaiting processing. Is she indoctrinated too?
 

OK. It's just for fun. I'm having fun, so it's working. I was only asking because I was curious about how serious the idea was, not because I would treat the idea any differently. (Although obviously a contention that Bio actually intended this nonsense would result in some different arguments.)

Just because an idea's just being put up for fun doesn't immunize it from criticism.

 

I don't have a problem with conflict or criticism - I have a problem with rude behavior.  As long as we're cool... then... we're cool.  Otherwise, there's no point in discussing anything.  I'll just put my thoughts down like I had originally intended, and I won't respond to questions.  But as long as we can have a friendly conversation - I won't feel the need to be abrasive.

 

As for the Codex entries - all it says is processing happens.  Okay... sure... let's say it does happen.  Then what?  These Codex entries are built from the perspective of Alliance Intelligence, yes?  So, they would have no way of knowing why people are being processed.  All they know is people are being killed and turned into mush.

 

Honestly, from a strictly narrative point of view - no one knew what this "processing" actually was until Catalyst explained it at the end of ME3.  And then it was later confirmed by Leviathan.

 

Which leads us back to my original premise:  they're lying.

 

I'm not saying they're lying about the events that we can readily witness.  They're lying about why these events are taking place.  If I tell you the whole thing wasn't to preserve life, but to keep it from rebelling - nothing about that statement changes the fact that prior events too place.  All it does it alter the perspective of why they took place.

[Raice]

 

Never mind

[AlanC9]

I'm still looking for the explanation of why what was going on in ME2 wasn't a "harvest." I get that you didn't like the way that plot worked, but we see the Reapers processing humans and using them to build a Reaper. This is fully consistent with the ME3 Codex, EDI's ME3 conversation about humans being processed on Earth, and the Catalyst's description of how Reapers came to be.

And if the Reapers aren't processing all of those sentients that are being fed into the slaughterships, what are those ships up to? I don't think that handwave two posts ago is adequate.

I suppose these things could be rationalized around if you really try, but what's the point? The only thing the alternative story has to offer is that it lets you believe that the Catalyst is lying. (I guess people really want to believe that for some reason, since it's also the only thing IT ever offered.) If I don't feel a need to believe that the Catalyst is lying, I don't see what the theory offers.