When you select your party and have your final conversations. He's on about the same level of dissent as Varric or Isabela. He asks if you're crazy, I think, and wants to make sure you know what you're doing.
In all honesty, I don't see how anyone can actually rationally side with Meredith at the end, even if you were virulently pro-Templar throughout the rest of the game: she decides to murder a bunch of innocent people for absolutely no reason.
In all honesty, I don't see how anyone can actually rationally side with Meredith at the end, even if you were virulently pro-Templar throughout the rest of the game: she decides to murder a bunch of innocent people for absolutely no reason.
Well to be fair that circle was a pit...
It needed annulling back in act 1.
When you select your party and have your final conversations. He's on about the same level of dissent as Varric or Isabela. He asks if you're crazy, I think, and wants to make sure you know what you're doing.
I meant if you side with the mages.
From what I have heard, Dorian and Iron Bull at least get along well, so they may have more in common than we know. There is also the fact that there are no other gay characters that we know of, so there aren't any other options... in the case of lesbians, we can at least speculate about Harding and Vivienne, but with gay males, there aren't any known characters who might be available...
Oh, I hope they're bros, I'm really looking forward to their interactions and believe they'll get along well. I think it would leave a bad taste in my mouth as a homosexual male, having them hook up. While we don't know how Bull's romance arc with the Inquisitor develops, Bull as a character seems to have a pretty casual/hedonistic approach to sex and that's completely fine, but when Dorian and Iron Bull are the only M/M options available to the Inquisitor, having them hook up when the Inquisitor isn't there subconsciously reinforces in my mind the negative stereotype of promiscuous homosexuals, hooking up with anything that's available to them. It's a purely internal thing.
Josie/Sera wouldn't bother me so much because A: I'm not a lesbian so I'm not even sure that that is a stigma for them and even so it's not one I personally have shoved in my face every day and B: neither character has been shown to have a proclivity for promiscuity, and so a hook-up with one of them doesn't really infer anything about the other.
Keeping in mind that this is all obviously based on not having played the game, having seen next to nothing of any of these characters in action and having no idea of whether any of these pairings actually exist. This is just how the ideas sit with me at this time.
I'm all for some Dorian/Cullen flirts though.
Well to be fair that circle was a pit...
It needed annulling back in act 1.
And it was positively STUFFED with Blood mages, including the First Enchanter.
They might as well been carrying around giant "Annul me!" Signs.
Oh, I hope they're bros, I'm really looking forward to their interactions and believe they'll get along well. I think it would leave a bad taste in my mouth as a homosexual male, having them hook up. While we don't know how Bull's romance arc with the Inquisitor develops, Bull as a character seems to have a pretty casual/hedonistic approach to sex and that's completely fine, but when Dorian and Iron Bull are the only M/M options available to the Inquisitor, having them hook up when the Inquisitor isn't there subconsciously reinforces in my mind the negative stereotype of promiscuous homosexuals, hooking up with anything that's available to them. It's a purely internal thing.
Josie/Sera wouldn't bother me so much because A: I'm not a lesbian so I'm not even sure that that is a stigma for them and even so it's not one I personally have shoved in my face every day and B: neither character has been shown to have a proclivity for promiscuity, and so a hook-up with one of them doesn't really infer anything about the other.
Keeping in mind that this is all obviously based on not having played the game, having seen next to nothing of any of these characters in action and having no idea of whether any of these pairings actually exist. This is just how the ideas sit with me at this time.
I'm all for some Dorian/Cullen flirts though.
Yeah, this is a pretty complicated subject... I've heard the exact opposite, in this very thread actually! 
Some folks seem to want a s/s couple, and if it's not a lesbian pairing, then this is the only other option. I do understand your concerns though... I guess it could be seen negatively due to Iron Bull's promiscuity, but it could also be positive, since gay relationships are almost never seen in video games... It really would depend on whether it was an actual relationship like Tali and Garrus or something strictly casual like Isabela and Fenris... I would assume that it would be handled more like the former, but you never know.
Personally, I think lesbians are kind of overdone in media, so I'd prefer a gay couple if for no other reason than to break from what's typically acceptable. Nothing against lesbians, of course... it's just too much of a "safe" choice for my liking. I wouldn't be opposed to both a gay and lesbian relationship happening in the background, however...
In all honesty, I don't see how anyone can actually rationally side with Meredith at the end, even if you were virulently pro-Templar throughout the rest of the game: she decides to murder a bunch of innocent people for absolutely no reason.
After Grace and Thrask, why would you ever take another chance on anyone in that circle? Its seems just about every mage and sympathiser they have is either a maleficar or too stupid to live. Might as well just go for a clean start.
This is pretty much why something as first enchanter shouldn't exist in first place same for politics in circles mages have way too much freedom if they have access to blood magic.
Yeah, this is a pretty complicated subject... I've heard the exact opposite, in this very thread actually!
Personally, I think lesbians are kind of overdone in media, so I'd prefer a gay couple if for no other reason than to break from what's typically acceptable. Nothing against lesbians, of course... it's just too much of a "safe" choice for my liking. I wouldn't be opposed to both a gay and lesbian relationship happening in the background, however...
You got that right.
I wouldn't mind if it were akin to Garrus and Tali's relationship, as long as it didn't start like Isabela and Fenris', which at this time I feel would be unlikely due to Bull's supposed nature. And that's not because there's anything wrong with casual sex, I just wouldn't like it when they are (currently) the ONLY visible homosexual relationship. It doesn't matter how many people Iron Bull sleeps/has slept with as long as there's somebody to offset that stereotype, and as Dorian is the only other M/M character we're aware of at the moment, I hope it's him. Although I do hope he is a flirt.
I feel like gay men typically get more exposure in media, outside of video games anyway (I literally haven't seen one non-straight male character in any games I've played outside of BioWare) but there's definitely room for improvements on both counts.
Edit: Why is this becoming an all mages deserve death thread?
You got that right.
I wouldn't mind if it were akin to Garrus and Tali's relationship, as long as it didn't start like Isabela and Fenris', which at this time I feel would be unlikely due to Bull's supposed nature. And that's not because there's anything wrong with casual sex, I just wouldn't like it when they are (currently) the ONLY visible homosexual relationship. It doesn't matter how many people Iron Bull sleeps/has slept with as long as there's somebody to offset that stereotype, and as Dorian is the only other M/M character we're aware of at the moment, I hope it's him. Although I do hope he is a flirt.
I feel like gay men typically get more exposure in media, outside of video games anyway (I literally haven't seen one non-straight male character in any games I've played outside of BioWare) but there's definitely room for improvements on both counts.
Edit: Why is this becoming an all mages deserve death thread?
No idea, but I'm staying out of it and sticking with the topic. 
As for the bulk of your post, you raise some good points with regard to how the hypothetical relationship would begin... Iron Bull's personality seems to be a bit of a land mine, and can easily trip up any effort to promote positive representation. Perhaps there could be a NPC that we don't know about yet who might be better suited to this kind of relationship... it's not like we know every side character, so it's not outside of the real of possibility.
And of course, even if there isn't any such relationship in DA:I, Bioware still deserves credit for being at the forefront of such issues. As you say, many companies don't even go near this topic, but Bioware has done a lot, even if there are some negative stereotypes here and there. I'm mainly referring to the promiscuous companions, but i don't think they upset the balance too much...
How about those Red wings...
That's all i got.
And of course, even if there isn't any such relationship in DA:I, Bioware still deserves credit for being at the forefront of such issues. As you say, many companies don't even go near this topic, but Bioware has done a lot, even if there are some negative stereotypes here and there. I'm mainly referring to the promiscuous companions, but i don't think they upset the balance too much...
No question. Even if my current discomfort regarding the prospect of a Bull/Dorian relationship were substantiated in the game, I certainly wouldn't be raising any pitchforks. That's just how I would feel. BioWare at its worst is still exponentially better than most entertainment media industries at its best.
No question. Even if my current discomfort regarding the prospect of a Bull/Dorian relationship were substantiated in the game, I certainly wouldn't be raising any pitchforks. That's just how I would feel. BioWare at its worst is still exponentially better than most entertainment media industries at its best.
Wait, what? What's wrong with Bull/Dorian? 
Wait, what? What's wrong with Bull/Dorian?
Avaflame was saying earlier that the Iron Bull's promiscuity may promote a negative stereotype if he and Dorian have a casual romance...
Avaflame was saying earlier that the Iron Bull's promiscuity may promote a negative stereotype if he and Dorian have a casual romance...
Oh for God's sake...so what, Bull and Dorian have to remain celibate if you're not romancing either one?
Oh for God's sake....
Um.. I don't want to misrepresent somebody else's position so maybe you should read the comments for yourself... it's just a few posts up.
Um.. I don't want to misrepresent somebody else's position so maybe you should read the comments for yourself... it's just a few posts up.
Just read, still don't mind if they have a casual romance, especially because it is still representation to me. Important representation.
Just read, still don't mind if they have a casual romance, especially because it is still representation to me. Important representation.
I'm think it would make an interesting sitcom.
I don't need, or necessarily want, them to be a causal hookup buddies or have a serious romance, I just want some flirting to happen. Bioware has been really great about LGBT+ representation, but they still tend to sweep male same-sex attraction under the rug unless it's sitcom bickering between Wade and Herren or Cortez mourning his dead husband, which are both pretty neutered portrayals of gay men. Any sort of passion between two men is regulated to involving a gay protagonist and therefore doesn't exist for most players. The only other real example is Zevran's flirting with Alistair, but that's played for a joke.
Like I said, Bioware has a great track record, but I still think there's a little improving to do.
How about dat Nicolas and Julien, eh? Ehh?
Speaking of m/m representation in BioWare products...
*slinks away in shame because nobody else likes the booooooks*
Seriously though, I would love for there to be a badass and unapologetically gay warrior NPC couple in DA: I. In fact, I'd take this over DorianxIB flirting!
Yeah, this is a pretty complicated subject... I've heard the exact opposite, in this very thread actually!
Personally, I think lesbians are kind of overdone in media, so I'd prefer a gay couple if for no other reason than to break from what's typically acceptable. Nothing against lesbians, of course... it's just too much of a "safe" choice for my liking. I wouldn't be opposed to both a gay and lesbian relationship happening in the background, however...
Actually, it is much more common to see gay men in media, of all types. Gay men made 46% of LGBT characters on broadcast, lesbians 30%, Bisexual women 17%, and Bi men 4%, there was one Trans woman. This was the first time in awhile women LGBT characters were equal to the number of male characters. On cable, last year, gay men were 53%, lesbians 24%, bisexual women 15%, and Bisexual men 6%, with one trans man.
Its fine to want more gay men in media, goodness knows they don't get enough. The fact we are seen as "overdone", when most of the time that is made for Straight men and we actually have less coverage than gay men is really messed up. I looked this up for awhile so source:http://www.glaad.org...s/2013WWATV.pdf
Seriously though, I would love for there to be a badass and unapologetically gay warrior NPC couple in DA: I. In fact, I'd take this over DorianxIB flirting!
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